Why we lost today

[Lennys Tap]

In spite of dominating in the paint today we were again out rebounded. We gave up 13 offensive rebounds and on three occasions I remember (it was probably more) Nova hit a 3 after getting their own miss. In 55 combined minutes, Otule, Mayo, Dawson and Burton had zero rebounds. Add Jake to the mix and it's 1 board in 81. Add Steve Jr and it's 4 rebounds in 104. That is atrocious. When teams shoot a lot of 3s you see many long rebounds, which are essentially loose 50/50 balls. Derrick had five rebounds, our other guards a combined 1 (thanks Jake) in 65. Everybody except Davante, Jamil and Derrick should be ashamed. One or two more guys step up and we win. The missed lay ups make you pull your hair out, but they're not what ailed us most today and in other difficult losses. Right now, these guys (with a few exceptions) just aren't tough enough.

[GooooMarquette]

Yep.  If we had more guys crashing the glass like Davante, Jamil and Derrick, we'd be celebrating a big win.

[NersEllenson]

Yep...if only Mayo had gotten a few rebounds...what might have been...the hell with his 18 points on 7-10 shooting.  If only Dawson could rebound like Derrick in 8 minutes of action.  Deonte in 5 minutes of action. 

Seems your guards should be the ones to corral a lot of the long rebounds, 50/50 balls, and Derrick and Jake in their combined 65 minutes snared all of 6 rebounds...or 1 rebound every 10 minutes of action.  Oh what might have been if Buzz would have given Dawson and Burton 10 minutes.

Perhaps our guards didn't block out well?

[Lennys Tap]

Yep...if only Mayo had gotten a few rebounds...what might have been...the hell with his 18 points on 7-10 shooting.  If only Dawson could rebound like Derrick in 8 minutes of action.  Deonte in 5 minutes of action. 

Seems your guards should be the ones to corral a lot of the long rebounds, 50/50 balls, and Derrick and Jake in their combined 65 minutes snared all of 6 rebounds...or 1 rebound every 10 minutes of action.  Oh what might have been if Buzz would have given Dawson and Burton 10 minutes.

Perhaps our guards didn't block out well?

Well Dawson had enough energy in 8 minutes of action to launch 4 shots - he just couldn't be bothered to bend over a little bit to pick up a ball that came right to him. Guess you have to be in for at least 10 minutes before you can give any effort to anything other than a shot.

If you read my post, I included rather than exonerated Jake for his miserable efforts on the boards. Of course for you, points scored are the only stat that matters. I'm sure you were quite the chucker on your dorm intermural squad.

[forgetful]

In spite of dominating in the paint today we were again out rebounded. We gave up 13 offensive rebounds and on three occasions I remember (it was probably more) Nova hit a 3 after getting their own miss. In 55 combined minutes, Otule, Mayo, Dawson and Burton had zero rebounds. Add Jake to the mix and it's 1 board in 81. Add Steve Jr and it's 4 rebounds in 104. That is atrocious. When teams shoot a lot of 3s you see many long rebounds, which are essentially loose 50/50 balls. Derrick had five rebounds, our other guards a combined 1 (thanks Jake) in 65. Everybody except Davante, Jamil and Derrick should be ashamed. One or two more guys step up and we win. The missed lay ups make you pull your hair out, but they're not what ailed us most today and in other difficult losses. Right now, these guys (with a few exceptions) just aren't tough enough.

Lenny, I agree that the rebounding was a serious problem today.  Several times we needed a stop, got one and then let them get the offensive rebound.  In some cases off 50/50 balls that no one chased or was unwilling to dive on. 

I do wonder if some of it stemmed from a few calls very early in the game where guys from MU in proper position were called for fouls on rebounds when they tried to grab a long rebound.  Thought they were really bad calls and wondered if it got in their head.

[royceda5 9]

The fact that you're defending Jake is funny. He can't do anything but shoot, and he's VERY good at that.

[classof70]

In spite of dominating in the paint today we were again out rebounded. We gave up 13 offensive rebounds and on three occasions I remember (it was probably more) Nova hit a 3 after getting their own miss. In 55 combined minutes, Otule, Mayo, Dawson and Burton had zero rebounds. Add Jake to the mix and it's 1 board in 81. Add Steve Jr and it's 4 rebounds in 104. That is atrocious. When teams shoot a lot of 3s you see many long rebounds, which are essentially loose 50/50 balls. Derrick had five rebounds, our other guards a combined 1 (thanks Jake) in 65. Everybody except Davante, Jamil and Derrick should be ashamed. One or two more guys step up and we win. The missed lay ups make you pull your hair out, but they're not what ailed us most today and in other difficult losses. Right now, these guys (with a few exceptions) just aren't tough enough.

Interesting numbers on Otule.   But, the most compelling comment is the lack of toughness.   I'd call it "heart".  This team has no heart or soul.  It's just a group of unrelated parts.   We'll have to simply hope that this isn't a precursor of things to come in future years. 

[tower912]

Interesting numbers on Otule.   But, the most compelling comment is the lack of toughness.   I'd call it "heart".  This team has no heart or soul.  It's just a group of unrelated parts.   We'll have to simply hope that this isn't a precursor of things to come in future years. 

It seems to me that during the first 5 years of Buzz's tenure, that a certain alchemy occurred to make the team more than the sum of its parts, or achieved  the peak of their potential.   This team is less than the sum of its parts.   I suspect there are several threads where posters blame different things, so I won't.   

[madtownwarrior]

tried that argument before:...

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41369.0

It seems to me that during the first 5 years of Buzz's tenure, that a certain alchemy occurred to make the team more than the sum of its parts, or achieved  the peak of their potential.   This team is less than the sum of its parts.   I suspect there are several threads where posters blame different things, so I won't.   

[rocky_warrior]

Lenny, I agree that the rebounding was a serious problem today.  Several times we needed a stop, got one and then let them get the offensive rebound.  In some cases off 50/50 balls that no one chased or was unwilling to dive on. 

Bad rebounding was likely the biggest reason MU lost.  Surprised very few people talking about it.

[Lennys Tap]

Bad rebounding was likely the biggest reason MU lost.  Surprised very few people talking about it.

Yeah, but if we talked about the real reason we lost our "fans" with the pitchforks wouldn't be able to write post after post about our "horse crap" point guard.

[jsglow]

Bad rebounding was likely the biggest reason MU lost.  Surprised very few people talking about it.

Chick and I discussed it throughout the game.  Most of the game we were about -10 on the boards.  Closed it up a bit at the end of regulation as Nova missed free throws.  Just killed us as we rarely could get a stop/rebound combo.

[tower912]

I would argue that atrocious pick and roll defense was as big a culprit as rebounding, but the two probably go hand in hand.  

[MU82]

Well Dawson had enough energy in 8 minutes of action to launch 4 shots - he just couldn't be bothered to bend over a little bit to pick up a ball that came right to him. Guess you have to be in for at least 10 minutes before you can give any effort to anything other than a shot.

I actually yelled out loud for Dawson to hit the floor and get that board. I'm guessing Buzz was none-too-pleased, nor should he have been.

[MU82]

Yeah, but if we talked about the real reason we lost our "fans" with the pitchforks wouldn't be able to write post after post about our "horse crap" point guard.

I agree the boards and hustle were huge issues, and commented on that a few seconds ago.

But that doesn't mean our PG play wasn't horsecrap (or darn close to it).

It's not an either-or thing. Both can be true.

[tower912]

It's moments like that with Dawson not hitting the floor, like JJJ throwing up that no-conscience, one-pass, early in the shot clock 3 20 seconds after checking into the game, like Deonte playing at both ends without conscience that explains why the frosh aren't getting more time.  

[PGsHeroes32]

What the original post proves Is how asinine it is to actually allow Chris Otule to play division 1 basketball

[77ncaachamps]

One

More

Made

Free

Throw

[Otule's Glass Eye]

One

More

Made

Free

Throw

It really is amazing how missed or made free throws can change the outcome of the game. Just think if Nova didn't miss all those free throws at the end of regulation, there is no overtime, period.

[79Warrior]

It's moments like that with Dawson not hitting the floor, like JJJ throwing up that no-conscience, one-pass, early in the shot clock 3 20 seconds after checking into the game, like Deonte playing at both ends without conscience that explains why the frosh aren't getting more time.  

You are so right. Great examples of why they ride the pine and will continue to do so until their overall game improves. While all three are talented, they still have plenty of hard work to do, the dirty work that Buzz and the coaches really want to see. MU always battles for 50/50 balls. Sure seems this season not many guys want to hit the deck.

[PGsHeroes32]

It's moments like that with Dawson not hitting the floor, like JJJ throwing up that no-conscience, one-pass, early in the shot clock 3 20 seconds after checking into the game, like Deonte playing at both ends without conscience that explains why the frosh aren't getting more time.  

But at the same time 11-9 doesn't explain it. "If it ain't broke don't fix it" guess what? It's broke.

It's mind boggling that people point out so called reason freshman are not getting playing time when ironically guys who are getting playing time are upperclassmen and worse at the game of basketball.

Seriously, what at least JJJ and Deonte have assets.

[tower912]

I have been equally critical of the upperclassmen and their lack of leadership.   Buzz hasn't given up on this season yet.   

[jesmu84]

Bad rebounding was likely the biggest reason MU lost.  Surprised very few people talking about it.

If we talked about that, we wouldn't be able to crap all over Jake and Derrick.

[PGsHeroes32]

If we talked about that, we wouldn't be able to crap all over Jake and Derrick.

But we can crap all over Chris who believe it or not is actually worse than those two.

[NersEllenson]

Bad rebounding was likely the biggest reason MU lost.  Surprised very few people talking about it.

Yeah, but if we talked about the real reason we lost our "fans" with the pitchforks wouldn't be able to write post after post about our "horse crap" point guard.

I agree offensive rebounding was a huge issue in the game - but, that's on the guys who got the most minutes - Gardner, Jamil, Derrick and Jake.  50/50 balls are usually chased down by guards - not bigs.  So, in my view, rebounding is a team effort - and its on the whole team to rebound.

Another reason why the rebounding was so poor - because our guards were getting beat off the dribble continuously - and it caused our bigs to help off to shut off penetration - which takes them out of rebounding position, as they no longer are able to get a good block out on their man.

We gave up 95 points yesterday.  Our defense wasn't good.  Nor was the rebounding.  Nova's PG ran circles around our guards.  If you aren't pleased with the results, then be mad at the guys that got max minutes yesterday...