Indiana humilated at home by subpar Northwestern

[keefe]

Fails to reach 50. The faithful are restless.

[madtownwarrior]

at this point who cares, our team's not winning either....

[4everwarriors]

Crean had his head focused on the NFC Championship game tomorrow.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This affects Marquette basketball how?

[keefe]

This affects Marquette basketball how?

perspective

[79Warrior]

perspective

Perhaps, but at least they have a big time win in their record.

[77ncaachamps]

perspective

And since we haven't beaten a ranked team at home this season, we don't know what they feel like after doing so.

I guess we'll have January 25 vs Nova to have that feeling.

[avid1010]

perspective is exactly right. 

IU - unranked and awful after failing to do anything in the tourney with the most talented team tc may ever have at IU
UCLA - lost to utah when ranked 25
UNC - beat boston college to get first win in ACC thus far
Duke - ranked 23

MU is having a down season, and is caught without a PG.  plenty of blue bloods struggling this season as well.  not the end of the world, and buzz has proven he's capable of winning the BEAST, 2 S16's and an E8, recruiting and developing NBA talent, etc...  i'm not sure that he'll get it turned around this year, and i don't agree with how he's coaching this year, but i do realize he know's a heck of a lot more than me and has proven himself.  i'm not at all concerned with mu in the long run.

[Tugg Speedman]

perspective is exactly right. 

IU - unranked and awful after failing to do anything in the tourney with the most talented team tc may ever have at IU
UCLA - lost to utah when ranked 25
UNC - beat boston college to get first win in ACC thus far
Duke - ranked 23

MU is having a down season, and is caught without a PG.  plenty of blue bloods struggling this season as well.  not the end of the world, and buzz has proven he's capable of winning the BEAST, 2 S16's and an E8, recruiting and developing NBA talent, etc...  i'm not sure that he'll get it turned around this year, and i don't agree with how he's coaching this year, but i do realize he know's a heck of a lot more than me and has proven himself.  i'm not at all concerned with mu in the long run.

Kentucky lost the Arkansas this week, will also drop in the polls.  Struggled to win today over Tennessee.

[4everwarriors]

T-Cubed shoulda spanked NU while sleep walkin'. After all, he's drivin' the bus at a premier iconic basketball institution. But, don't sell the 'Cats short. Collins is turnin' the corner on Central and headed in the right direction.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't know Keefe, the perspective thing is interesting.  The perspective for MU was to win the Big East, a conference we won last year when it was much better.  I'm surprised we lost to Butler today, though I did predict an over time game. In the end, we ended up not getting it done.

IU, doing pretty much what many expected.  Young team, lost top 4 players, will win some games that will surprise people and will lose games that will surprise people.  I've rarely seen a team shoot so poorly as the first half today, and that will kill you.

So for perspective, I have a sense that nationally people are more puzzled by MU's poor performance than IU's based on expectations.  MU picked 1st, IU picked 6th.  Personally, I find these predictions ridiculous, but since so many folks latch on to them it would seem the perceptions would be linked.

k

[77ncaachamps]

The fact that blue bloods are struggling is more of a reason why MU can't struggle: getting into the NCAAs will need more than a 20 win season since MU, its coach and players have less of a name recognition than the others.

[avid1010]

The fact that blue bloods are struggling is more of a reason why MU can't struggle: getting into the NCAAs will need more than a 20 win season since MU, its coach and players have less of a name recognition than the others.

oh...MU ain't a NCAA team this year.  the only hope i have is that they get hot at the end of the year and win the tourney.

[keefe]

MU can't struggle: getting into the NCAAs will need more than a 20 win season

I am thinking that ship has sailed...

[4everwarriors]

Like the Titanic.

[keefe]

Like the Titanic.

[NersEllenson]

I don't know Keefe, the perspective thing is interesting.  The perspective for MU was to win the Big East, a conference we won last year when it was much better.  I'm surprised we lost to Butler today, though I did predict an over time game. In the end, we ended up not getting it done.

IU, doing pretty much what many expected.  Young team, lost top 4 players, will win some games that will surprise people and will lose games that will surprise people.  I've rarely seen a team shoot so poorly as the first half today, and that will kill you.

So for perspective, I have a sense that nationally people are more puzzled by MU's poor performance than IU's based on expectations.  MU picked 1st, IU picked 6th.  Personally, I find these predictions ridiculous, but since so many folks latch on to them it would seem the perceptions would be linked.

k

The bigger question at IU has to be, how in Year 6 of the Tom Crean Regime, at a blue blood program, in a hoops talent rich state, and being the flagship program in the state of Indiana - are "we" predicted to finish 6th in the conference??

And as for MU this year, this definitely will be the first year in the Buzz regime expectations haven't been met - of course we could throw out the excuses of injuries to Duane and Steve Taylor, transfer of McKay - such as your mention of IU being young and losing Top 4 players.  I never saw this season coming...this bad..I was bullish.  Haven't agreed a whole lot with Buzz's decisions this year AT ALL.  Still love the guy - but MU like every program isn't immune from an off year - particularly at MU where we aren't a blue blood program.

Seems Buzz has some pieces he can play - namely a lot more Burton, Dawson, Mayo - and less Derrick, Jake, Otule - and if that doesn't work...then the season is definitely lost - but it isn't going anywhere good at this rate, especially if nothing changes...

[ChicosBailBonds]

The bigger question at IU has to be, how in Year 6 of the Tom Crean Regime, at a blue blood program, in a hoops talent rich state, and being the flagship program in the state of Indiana - are "we" predicted to finish 6th in the conference??

And as for MU this year, this definitely will be the first year in the Buzz regime expectations haven't been met - of course we could throw out the excuses of injuries to Duane and Steve Taylor, transfer of McKay - such as your mention of IU being young and losing Top 4 players.  I never saw this season coming...this bad..I was bullish.  Haven't agreed a whole lot with Buzz's decisions this year AT ALL.  Still love the guy - but MU like every program isn't immune from an off year - particularly at MU where we aren't a blue blood program.

Seems Buzz has some pieces he can play - namely a lot more Burton, Dawson, Mayo - and less Derrick, Jake, Otule - and if that doesn't work...then the season is definitely lost - but it isn't going anywhere good at this rate, especially if nothing changes...

Really?

Well, when you lose 4 scorers that tallied 1000 points in their career, that's how it happens.  How does a blue blood program like Kentucky make the NIT a year after the NCAA championship?  Again, they were picked 6th for a reason due to the losses they had.  We were picked 1st....

 

[NersEllenson]

Really?

Well, when you lose 4 scorers that tallied 1000 points in their career, that's how it happens.  How does a blue blood program like Kentucky make the NIT a year after the NCAA championship?  Again, they were picked 6th for a reason due to the losses they had.  We were picked 1st....

Cmon Chicos - Kentucky is a bunch of one and dones, not at all the way its been at IU.  Would be different if Crean had to rely on a new group of freshman every year, like Calipari largely has.  At IU, he should have good recruiting class after good recruiting class, and the cupboard shouldn't be empty. 

On the whole what is the sentiment of IU fans currently?  Are they happy with Crean, or do you feel they felt in Year 6, the best they'd have accomplished would be a 1 Sweet 16 (with 2 NBA lottery picks on it), and following that up with a potential 6th place finish in Big 10?  Did Bob Knight ever finish 6th in his 25+years at the helm?

Now, I'm not going to say teams can't have down years, as we (MU) currently are having a big down year - the bigger point was how can a team be picked for 6th in the conference at a blue blood school like IU after the proverbial 5 year evaluation of a head coach?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ners, I think you are focusing a lot of energy on one blue blood and not others, which begs a why.

Why is North Carolina 1-3 to start the ACC with their lone win coming today?  Why is UCONN in 7th place?  Why did UK lose to Robert Morris in the NIT?  Why is Duke barely ranked (24th)?  Etc, etc

IU is in 7th place, picked to finish 6th this year.  I don't know if they will finish that highly, lot of season left, but ultimately performing so far as expected.

Of my three schools I attended, they are the least of my worries this year.

[keefe]

Really?

Well, when you lose 4 scorers that tallied 1000 points in their career, that's how it happens.  How does a blue blood program like Kentucky make the NIT a year after the NCAA championship?  Again, they were picked 6th for a reason due to the losses they had.  We were picked 1st....

 

I am fairly certain that many among the IU Faithful are less than pleased that their beloved Hoosiers were picked 6th in the Big 10 6 years into the Crean era. Indiana is about winning. Consistently.

Since you are an alum let me ask you how you feel about IU forecasted as the 6 and is your opinion representative of the IU Faithful?

[NersEllenson]

Ners, I think you are focusing a lot of energy on one blue blood and not others, which begs a why.

Why is North Carolina 1-3 to start the ACC with their lone win coming today?  Why is UCONN in 7th place?  Why did UK lose to Robert Morris in the NIT?  Why is Duke barely ranked (24th)?  Etc, etc

IU is in 7th place, picked to finish 6th this year.  I don't know if they will finish that highly, lot of season left, but ultimately performing so far as expected.

Of my three schools I attended, they are the least of my worries this year.

I don't really care too much, truly.  Guess the statement that you felt more people nationally are puzzled by MU's poor performance, than Indiana's (based on lower expectations for Indiana), just made me wonder - has IU really fell that far, that MU NOT finishing in first place in its conference is a bigger head scratcher, than Indiana finishing 6th in the Big Ten?  Just an interesting perspective to contemplate.  Says a lot about the perception of the jobs done by Buzz and Tom up to this point.  Buzz is definitely having a tough year this year, no doubt.

[MU82]

Didn't Crean leave MU for IU because he was frustrated he couldn't recruit stars -- in other words, leave-for-NBA-early guys such as Zeller and Oladipo -- at MU but could at It's Indiana It's Indiana?

Does that mean he can only recruit such players at IIII occasionally or consistently? Or does that me he can't "coach 'em up" as consistently good as the likes of Calipari can?

Can Crean leave Marquette for the better recruiting at Indiana and then let his apologists claim he is struggling this year because those better recruits were so good they left for the NBA? Or should he be held accountable because he couldn't follow those too-good recruits with another batch of too-good recruits? And then another batch? And then another? After, all, It's Indiana! It's Indiana!

I'm not trying to be snarky here. I'm legitimately asking these questions.

Marquette fans have used the Vander leaving thing as a huge excuse, but shouldn't great programs lose a guy or two early every year or two?

[ChicosBailBonds]

1989-90 Indiana season vs 1988-89 Indiana season


I think you will see some tremendous similarities between those back to back seasons and this year and last year....except some guy named Bob Knight was the coach. 

Were "most" IU fans not happy about being picked 6th...I don't know, was there a poll done?  I sense that many people here get their "read" on IU fans from visiting a few nutjobs on message boards, including more than their fair share that aren't even IU fans.  When attendance starts collapsing, people buying out contracts, etc then folks might be on to something.  In the meantime, we can always count on fake stories about what happened on flights to Omaha with their AD (notice that poster hasn't posted since here under that username), etc., etc.   


MU82....they aren't having issues recruiting folks.  They have a ton of talent coming in next year...their issue next year will be size if Vonleh leaves for the pros, which he likely will.  They will be loaded at guard and wing players, however. 

[Lennys Tap]

IU, doing pretty much what many expected.  Young team, lost top 4 players, will win some games that will surprise people and will lose games that will surprise people.  I've rarely seen a team shoot so poorly as the first half today, and that will kill you.

So for perspective, I have a sense that nationally people are more puzzled by MU's poor performance than IU's based on expectations.  MU picked 1st, IU picked 6th.  Personally, I find these predictions ridiculous, but since so many folks latch on to them it would seem the perceptions would be linked.

k

1. Indiana preseason ranking was 28 in the AP poll and 24 in the coaches poll. In both they were the 5th highest ranked Big 10 team. They are underachieving, not doing what was expected.
2. They did not lose their top 4 players. Five star McDonald's AA point guard was better than both Hulls and Watford from day one last year.
3. Both MU (preseason #17 in both polls) and Indiana (#28 and #24) are disappointments as neither is probably top 60 right now, but saying the Hoosiers are performing to expectations is disingenuous.