Buzz needs to sit Derrick Wilson

[CTWarrior]

Derrick becomes much less a liability if we have guys around him who can score. Surround Derrick with Todd, JJJ, Deonte, OX, Jamil he becomes better. Those guys can get themselves points.

That's like saying the 2 of clubs would be a good card to have in your poker hand if the other four cards are aces.  It may be part of a winning hand, but it ain't helping.

[MerrittsMustache]

Well based on Sugar's season statistics (link below), it is quite evident Todd should be unseating Jake.  Buzz's continued insistence to give Jake big minutes, is, in my opinion an example of him being stubborn - even when all data suggest Mayo should be getting max minutes at the 2...which also makes it believable that his continued riding of Derrick could also be out of the same degree of stubbornness.  Clearly Mayo gives the team a better chance of winning than does Jake, yet Jake continues to get more minutes...defies all logic.

http://s228.photobucket.com/user/roblowe14/media/Season121013.png.html

My view of the Buzz-Mayo relationship can best be described by the following analogy...

It's a beautiful day. You get home from work and your son wants to go outside and shoot some hoops in the driveway with you. He really wants to go outside. You really want to go outside. Your wife really wants both of you outside. Yet, you told your son repeatedly that he couldn't play outside until he finished his homework and cleaned his room, but he hasn't done either. About an hour later, your son has finished most of his homework and done a halfass job of cleaning his room. You know it would be fun for everyone if you let him play outside, but if you do, what lesson is he learning?

[GGGG]

Well based on Sugar's season statistics (link below), it is quite evident Todd should be unseating Jake.  Buzz's continued insistence to give Jake big minutes, is, in my opinion an example of him being stubborn - even when all data suggest Mayo should be getting max minutes at the 2...which also makes it believable that his continued riding of Derrick could also be out of the same degree of stubbornness.  Clearly Mayo gives the team a better chance of winning than does Jake, yet Jake continues to get more minutes...defies all logic.

http://s228.photobucket.com/user/roblowe14/media/Season121013.png.html

Given Todd's history, do you really think it "defies all logic?"

[GooooMarquette]

My view of the Buzz-Mayo relationship can best be described by the following analogy...

It's a beautiful day. You get home from work and your son wants to go outside and shoot some hoops in the driveway with you. He really wants to go outside. You really want to go outside. Your wife really wants both of you outside. Yet, you told your son repeatedly that he couldn't play outside until he finished his homework and cleaned his room, but he hasn't done either. About an hour later, your son has finished most of his homework and done a halfass job of cleaning his room. You know it would be fun for everyone if you let him play outside, but if you do, what lesson is he learning?

I think you hit the nail on the head.  As soon as Todd wants to start - and shows it by following Buzz's rules - Jake will hit the bench in a nanosecond.

[79Warrior]

Jake Thomas is this year's Trent Lockett.   Buzz has him in there for defense, glue, the occasional basket.   I was wrong about Trent last year.   I swore up and down that Todd would/should start when he came back from suspension.   Clearly, I was wrong.   Buzz likes JT because he is always in the right place.   IMO, Jake is underutilized in Buzz's offense, as he should be the one feeding Gardner from the wing instead of DeWil.  Jake's guy has to stay up on him because he doesn't want him to make the first one.   This would give Gardner more room immediately.

"Jake Thomas is this year's Trent Lockett".

Are you kidding? Thomas is not half the player Trent was. Not sure what Jake Thomas you are watching, but toss out the Arizona State game, and he has been a complete offensive liability.

[NersEllenson]

Given Todd's history, do you really think it "defies all logic?"

I do feel that Todd's number 1 love is obviously basketball....means more to him than anything....and when what he's given in the way of PT is inconsistent, which makes it harder to be effective, and in turn frustrating - actually detracts from his overall happiness - which in my opinion, if he were able to get a consistent 30+ minutes a game, and his production began to soar - he'd be happier in general, and that would translate to other areas of his life.  He needs to feel good about himself - and basketball is the 1 thing that can help in that area.  To not start, and sit behind a player you know you are better than, and the numbers bear it out significantly - is a mindf$ck.

[PGsHeroes32]

That's like saying the 2 of clubs would be a good card to have in your poker hand if the other four cards are aces.  It may be part of a winning hand, but it ain't helping.

Im not a derrick fan at all but he has assets.

The guy can defend very solid for the most part and doesn't typically turn the ball over.

We know he can't shoot. It won't change. Having him play with Jake Thomas a guy who cannot do anything but shoot streaky open Js if he happens to be open(very rare), Otule who really cant do anything on O unless guarded by a midget and gets a free dunk and Juan who while very nice hustle player/rebounder cannot score

You can't expect Derrick to do a ton. I just absolutely hate that combination of players.

It is harder to sag on Derrick if teams no that Todd, Jamil Deonte etc.. will take it to the rake or get their own jumper at any time.

[GGGG]

I do feel that Todd's number 1 love is obviously basketball....means more to him than anything....and when what he's given in the way of PT is inconsistent, which makes it harder to be effective, and in turn frustrating - actually detracts from his overall happiness - which in my opinion, if he were able to get a consistent 30+ minutes a game, and his production began to soar - he'd be happier in general, and that would translate to other areas of his life.  He needs to feel good about himself - and basketball is the 1 thing that can help in that area.  To not start, and sit behind a player you know you are better than, and the numbers bear it out significantly - is a mindf$ck.

So Todd would do better in school and would stop showing up late for practice if Buzz would only play him more?  Is that really what you are saying?

[NersEllenson]

So Todd would do better in school and would stop showing up late for practice if Buzz would only play him more?  Is that really what you are saying?

Look, you are the guy that threw out the comment - it would just be nice if Todd could unseat the guy in front of him.  All data supports and suggest he's earned that right - and to not be given that has to be maddening.  He wasn't given that option prior to even being late for practice...so its not like that was in play prior to the Wisconsin game...

At some point, you have to forgive the mistakes of the past, and quit with the whole tough love thing.  If the events of Todd's first 2 years are still being held against him - Buzz should have moved on from him.  Being late to 1 practice, isn't exactly a felony - and from what we know, this has never been an issue for Todd - being late to practice.  Cut the kid a little slack

[GGGG]

Look, you are the guy that threw out the comment - it would just be nice if Todd could unseat the guy in front of him.  All data supports and suggest he's earned that right

Except for, of course, that Buzz doesn't agree.

[NersEllenson]

Except for, of course, that Buzz doesn't agree.

No, as you speculate, its because Todd's behavior.  No way you look at the statistical performance between Todd and Jake - even defensively as the "Mayo Effect" thread clearly illustrated - and believe Jake has earned the starting/more minutes position.

So, in my view, Buzz is taking the whole tough love thing a little too far, and the mind games aren't helping Mayo ultimately..

[GGGG]

No, as you speculate, its because Todd's behavior.  No way you look at the statistical performance between Todd and Jake - even defensively as the "Mayo Effect" thread clearly illustrated - and believe Jake has earned the starting/more minutes position.

So, in my view, Buzz is taking the whole tough love thing a little too far, and the mind games aren't helping Mayo ultimately..

I simply refuted your comment that it "defies all logic."  There are perfectly logical reasons why Todd may not be starting.

And if Todd is struggling with Buzz's methods, then Todd should probably look elsewhere. 

[CTWarrior]

Im not a derrick fan at all but he has assets.

The guy can defend very solid for the most part and doesn't typically turn the ball over.

We know he can't shoot. It won't change. Having him play with Jake Thomas a guy who cannot do anything but shoot streaky open Js if he happens to be open(very rare), Otule who really cant do anything on O unless guarded by a midget and gets a free dunk and Juan who while very nice hustle player/rebounder cannot score

You can't expect Derrick to do a ton. I just absolutely hate that combination of players.

It is harder to sag on Derrick if teams no that Todd, Jamil Deonte etc.. will take it to the rake or get their own jumper at any time.

I agree that he is a fine (though not disruptive) defensive PG and I also agree that he doesn't turn the ball over.  I also think he shows signs of being a good rebounder with a good feeling for where the ball will go.  I agree yet again that his weaknesses are magnified by those he generally shares the floor with, particularly his backcourt mate.  

What I don't agree with is that there is any configuration of players anywhere in college basketball where he would be an asset on the offensive end of the basketball court.  The best you could get to is that if he was on the floor with a bunch of great players the team could score despite his not helping.  

I could see a scenario for Jake Thomas being helpful.  With a great penetrating PG who can pass and knock down the mid-range jumper, Jake could be an asset as a guy who could hit the kickout three.  With the players he currently plays with, he doesn't get those looks.

In the end, I think we all agree that our backcourt is a problem, and that as a pair they aren't helping each other.  If Derrick could just force his defender to play him honestly, I think that would open up a lot of things.  How he does that, I'm not sure.  I am sure Jake's not going to improve appreciably at this point.  He production can improve however, if we could find him some open looks.

[Big Papi]

No, as you speculate, its because Todd's behavior.  No way you look at the statistical performance between Todd and Jake - even defensively as the "Mayo Effect" thread clearly illustrated - and believe Jake has earned the starting/more minutes position.

So, in my view, Buzz is taking the whole tough love thing a little too far, and the mind games aren't helping Mayo ultimately..

You can't say Buzz is taking the whole tough love thing a little too far if you don't know the particulars of the entire situation.


As far as your other comments go.  Playing time is not simply earned by production on the court.  Its pretty obvious, that Buzz requires players to earn playing time by production on and off the court.

Mayo has been given the opportunity for minutes since day one.  Unfortunately, Mayo hasn't taken advantage of them.  I don't know the entire situation but I know enough to believe that if we had any other coach besides Buzz, Mayo would not be on the team as his act is very tiresome but Buzz likes challenges and still believes in him.

You might forgive mistakes but you can't forget them, especially when a lot of the same ones pile up over the years.  Hopefully Mayo realizes the chances he has been given and works hard to help the team because he is very productive on the court when he plays. 

[GGGG]

You can't say Buzz is taking the whole tough love thing a little too far if you don't know the particulars of the entire situation.

I'm pretty sure "ners" means "mindless speculation" in some obscure language.

[Hards Alumni]

No, as you speculate, its because Todd's behavior.  No way you look at the statistical performance between Todd and Jake - even defensively as the "Mayo Effect" thread clearly illustrated - and believe Jake has earned the starting/more minutes position.

So, in my view, Buzz is taking the whole tough love thing a little too far, and the mind games aren't helping Mayo ultimately..

It isn't tough love.  Todd violates team rules so he sits.  Bottom line.

Buzz is trying to develop decent men first, and basketball players second.

[tower912]

"Jake Thomas is this year's Trent Lockett".

Are you kidding? Thomas is not half the player Trent was. Not sure what Jake Thomas you are watching, but toss out the Arizona State game, and he has been a complete offensive liability.

Through 9 game last year, Lockett 8.1 PPG, 4.5 RPG.    JT this year  6.4 PPG, 2.0 APG
I actually thought Jakes rebounds would be higher.    PPG isn't that far off. 

[GGGG]

Through 9 game last year, Lockett 8.1 PPG, 4.5 RPG.    JT this year  6.4 PPG, 2.0 APG
I actually thought Jakes rebounds would be higher.    PPG isn't that far off. 

But they have much different roles.  Lockett was a defender, offensive rebounder, etc. who played the position that Juan does this year.  Jake is playing the position that Vander did last year...and DJO the year before. 

[PGsHeroes32]

I agree that he is a fine (though not disruptive) defensive PG and I also agree that he doesn't turn the ball over.  I also think he shows signs of being a good rebounder with a good feeling for where the ball will go.  I agree yet again that his weaknesses are magnified by those he generally shares the floor with, particularly his backcourt mate.  

What I don't agree with is that there is any configuration of players anywhere in college basketball where he would be an asset on the offensive end of the basketball court.  The best you could get to is that if he was on the floor with a bunch of great players the team could score despite his not helping.  

I could see a scenario for Jake Thomas being helpful.  With a great penetrating PG who can pass and knock down the mid-range jumper, Jake could be an asset as a guy who could hit the kickout three.  With the players he currently plays with, he doesn't get those looks.

In the end, I think we all agree that our backcourt is a problem, and that as a pair they aren't helping each other.  If Derrick could just force his defender to play him honestly, I think that would open up a lot of things.  How he does that, I'm not sure.  I am sure Jake's not going to improve appreciably at this point.  He production can improve however, if we could find him some open looks.

I hear you. I am not saying that Derrick is even an asset on when surrounded by scorers. I am just more saying that he isn't the detriment that some make him out to be if he has actual talent playing with him.

He is poor at penetrating and kicking out to a open guy but problem is idk if Jake could be a kick out option with Marcus Smart running the show. Jake while having a good stroke just isn't consistent and is just poor at getting himself in a position where a kickout is even possible.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

No, as you speculate, its because Todd's behavior.  No way you look at the statistical performance between Todd and Jake - even defensively as the "Mayo Effect" thread clearly illustrated - and believe Jake has earned the starting/more minutes position.

So, in my view, Buzz is taking the whole tough love thing a little too far, and the mind games aren't helping Mayo ultimately..

I think you view Todd as a good kid who has just made some bad choices.

It's also equally likely that Todd is really a butt head, who has acted like a butt head, and is being treated as such.

I have no idea which side of the "butt head" scale Todd is on, but I trust Buzz has it under control.

[NersEllenson]

You can't say Buzz is taking the whole tough love thing a little too far if you don't know the particulars of the entire situation.


As far as your other comments go.  Playing time is not simply earned by production on the court.  Its pretty obvious, that Buzz requires players to earn playing time by production on and off the court.

Mayo has been given the opportunity for minutes since day one.  Unfortunately, Mayo hasn't taken advantage of them.  I don't know the entire situation but I know enough to believe that if we had any other coach besides Buzz, Mayo would not be on the team as his act is very tiresome but Buzz likes challenges and still believes in him.

You might forgive mistakes but you can't forget them, especially when a lot of the same ones pile up over the years.  Hopefully Mayo realizes the chances he has been given and works hard to help the team because he is very productive on the court when he plays. 

Actually Buzz runs a MUCH tighter ship than most coaches, and Mayos transgressions at a lot of programs wouldn't even be much cause for drama - as far as getting ruled academically ineligible, being late for ONE practice in 2.5 years, and having to sit out 1/2 of a game at WVU with 3 other teammates who did the same thing. These aren't felonies and to suggest Mayo likely wouldn't still be around at other programs is totally ludicrous. Aki was trying to get him to Memphis and I can promise if Todd decided to transfer there would be plenty of schools seeking his services. This whole narrative of Todd being such a bad kid/teammate is totally overblown by our overly self righteous.

[tower912]

FWIW, I have been on the 'time-to-start-Todd-Mayo' kick for a year now.   I think it is time to start him at SG and bring Jake off of the bench.   But I don't like seeing JT slagged. 

[Lennys Tap]

I do feel that Todd's number 1 love is obviously basketball....means more to him than anything....and when what he's given in the way of PT is inconsistent, which makes it harder to be effective, and in turn frustrating - actually detracts from his overall happiness - which in my opinion, if he were able to get a consistent 30+ minutes a game, and his production began to soar - he'd be happier in general, and that would translate to other areas of his life.  He needs to feel good about himself - and basketball is the 1 thing that can help in that area.  To not start, and sit behind a player you know you are better than, and the numbers bear it out significantly - is a mindf$ck.

So, give him playing time in the hope that it will make him a better teammate and more responsible person rather than rewarding him with playing time for being reliable, responsible, etc. I want MU to win too, Ners, but I respectfully submit you have the process backwards.

[wadesworld]

FWIW, I have been on the 'time-to-start-Todd-Mayo' kick for a year now.   I think it is time to start him at SG and bring Jake off of the bench.   But I don't like seeing JT slagged. 

Todd's gotta get outta the doghouse before he sees significant time in my opinion. If we aren't sure we can rely on him being available to play night in and night out, give the minutes to JJJ and Deonte.

[tower912]

I know that Todd dictates the amount of PT Todd gets.