What was Buzz doing?

[GooooMarquette]

Matta said it in the postgame

Coachspeak.

[Stretchdeltsig]

The bottom line is that we have to score.  We have to be able to make baskets.  If JJJ is a shooter he should play.  Burton should play.  Buzz has to play the guys that can score.  This game was ridiculous and a total embarrassment.  We can play much better.  If Thomas can't score, he shouldn't play period.  Dawson should play.  We have to play the best team no matter if they are seniors or freshmen.  Rotate the players until we have five that can win.

[Boone]

Craft could have stepped off the floor for a smoke break while OSU was on defense and Jake still wouldn't have scored.

[MerrittsMustache]

Where do you get that from?

Craft is a 6'2" guard...and he had to guard someone when they played man defense.  Given our starting lineup, the only realistic options were Derrick or Jake, since he clearly wasn't going to guard Jamil (6'7"), Steve (6'7") or Chris (6'11").  Putting Craft on Jake simply means he thinks Jake is more of a scoring threat than Derrick.  Hardly a rousing endorsement of Jake's shooting ability....

From watching the game and understanding basketball.

[WarriorFan]

If you re-watch the game and look at the floor spacing when Jake is in vs. when he's not... it's much better when he's in.  There are two reasons for this. 
1.  The freshman don't know how to space the floor yet and none of them command enough respect from the D
2.  Mayo is a slasher first so the defender will give him a little more space while they get up on Jake
Jake on the floor = points for DG and points for DG = and MU win.

[MU82]

If you re-watch the game and look at the floor spacing when Jake is in vs. when he's not... it's much better when he's in.  There are two reasons for this. 
1.  The freshman don't know how to space the floor yet and none of them command enough respect from the D
2.  Mayo is a slasher first so the defender will give him a little more space while they get up on Jake
Jake on the floor = points for DG and points for DG = and MU win.

Absolutely. I couldn't help but notice DG's 10 whole points and that fantastic MU win Saturday.

[GooooMarquette]

From watching the game and understanding basketball.

Classic non-responsive response...but thanks for the laugh!

[ATWizJr]

If you re-watch the game and look at the floor spacing when Jake is in vs. when he's not... it's much better when he's in.  There are two reasons for this. 
1.  The freshman don't know how to space the floor yet and none of them command enough respect from the D
2.  Mayo is a slasher first so the defender will give him a little more space while they get up on Jake
Jake on the floor = points for DG and points for DG = and MU win.

So, Jake is commanding respect from the D?

[MUHoopsFan2]

The bottom line is that we have to score.  We have to be able to make baskets.  If JJJ is a shooter he should play.  Burton should play.  Buzz has to play the guys that can score.  This game was ridiculous and a total embarrassment.  We can play much better.  If Thomas can't score, he shouldn't play period.  Dawson should play.  We have to play the best team no matter if they are seniors or freshmen.  Rotate the players until we have five that can win.

Calm down...you don't play freshmen in a game like this, this early if they are not ready and you don't have to.

But I say this without having watched the game at all...

[MerrittsMustache]

If you re-watch the game and look at the floor spacing when Jake is in vs. when he's not... it's much better when he's in.  There are two reasons for this. 
1.  The freshman don't know how to space the floor yet and none of them command enough respect from the D
2.  Mayo is a slasher first so the defender will give him a little more space while they get up on Jake
Jake on the floor = points for DG and points for DG = and MU win.

But, but, but that can't be! Jake Thomas hasn't made a 3 against non-Grambling opponents, plus he shot 28% last season in limited action! There's no way another team would pay attention to him!

[brewcity77]

But, but, but that can't be! Jake Thomas hasn't made a 3 against non-Grambling opponents, plus he shot 28% last season in limited action! There's no way another team would pay attention to him!

Improved floor spacing does not make Jake an effective three-point shooter against high-major opponents. The two things are mutually exclusive. Yes, Matta acknowledged guarding Jake and had Craft on him most of the day. This is largely because when Jake is in and Todd isn't, Jake is the only potential perimeter threat. Derrick is not a threat from out there, we know that, so the excellent 6'2" defender will take Jake. What's the alternative, putting Craft on Jamil when he gives up 5-6 inches? Matta's not an idiot and he's not desperate. And if Craft stays close to Jake (which history has shown will nullify his ability to shoot) it will open up the passing lanes, though even then MU had little luck getting the ball inside. I don't have the game recorded, but when Jake and Todd were out there together, I'd be curious to know how much time Craft spent on each of them.

[MerrittsMustache]

Improved floor spacing does not make Jake an effective three-point shooter against high-major opponents. The two things are mutually exclusive. Yes, Matta acknowledged guarding Jake and had Craft on him most of the day. This is largely because when Jake is in and Todd isn't, Jake is the only potential perimeter threat. Derrick is not a threat from out there, we know that, so the excellent 6'2" defender will take Jake. What's the alternative, putting Craft on Jamil when he gives up 5-6 inches? Matta's not an idiot and he's not desperate. And if Craft stays close to Jake (which history has shown will nullify his ability to shoot) it will open up the passing lanes, though even then MU had little luck getting the ball inside. I don't have the game recorded, but when Jake and Todd were out there together, I'd be curious to know how much time Craft spent on each of them.

This is EXACTLY the point I've been making over and over and over.

[brewcity77]

This is EXACTLY the point I've been making over and over and over.

Not exactly the point you've been making, because you've been saying a lot more than that:

37.7%. That's Jake's career 3-point shooting percentage.

Jake has proved that he can knock down outside shots.

If you can shoot it, you can shoot it and that is why Thomas plays. He can shoot it.

The fact of the matter is that Jake Thomas is the best outside shooting threat on the roster.

Does Jake space the floor? Yes. But his 37.7% career shooting percentage hasn't meant a thing against high-major opponents. He hasn't proven he can knock down outside shots at this level. And maybe he can shoot it, but I think most people's definition of a guy who can "shoot it" would be a guy who can also "make it", which would pretty definitively indicate he is not the best outside shooting threat on the roster.

[MU82]

Not exactly the point you've been making, because you've been saying a lot more than that:

Does Jake space the floor? Yes. But his 37.7% career shooting percentage hasn't meant a thing against high-major opponents. He hasn't proven he can knock down outside shots at this level. And maybe he can shoot it, but I think most people's definition of a guy who can "shoot it" would be a guy who can also "make it", which would pretty definitively indicate he is not the best outside shooting threat on the roster.

"Sniper Jake" is a joke.

He made 3 last season against Mississippi State and 4 against UMBC, whoever that is. He made 4 this season against Grambling. That is 11 of the 17 three-points he has hit in his illustrious 1-plus season at Marquette.

Aside from the 4-point play against Syracuse -- perhaps a tad lucky, but I still gotta give him credit -- when has he hit a trey in any situation that mattered?

If his mere presence on the court is for spacing, then fine, let him play a few minutes to space the court until somebody who actually can hit 3-pointers starts to earn minutes.

But our best 3-point shooter? Hell, I'm not sure he's better than Davante.

[MerrittsMustache]

Not exactly the point you've been making, because you've been saying a lot more than that:

Does Jake space the floor? Yes. But his 37.7% career shooting percentage hasn't meant a thing against high-major opponents. He hasn't proven he can knock down outside shots at this level. And maybe he can shoot it, but I think most people's definition of a guy who can "shoot it" would be a guy who can also "make it", which would pretty definitively indicate he is not the best outside shooting threat on the roster.

True. I did say more than that...as part of providing evidence as to why Jake spaces the floor. Quite simply: he's the closest thing MU has to an outside shooting threat and, unlike a lot of posters on here, opposing teams understand that, which is why they need to account for him and which is why he's seeing the minutes that he's seeing (along with his respectable job on the defensive end).

Look, no one is saying that Jake is the second-coming of Steve Novak or that he's going to shoot MU to the Final Four. This whole debate began with posters wondering why Jake is seeing so many minutes and I answered the question.

[PistolPete]

"Sniper Jake" is a joke.

He made 3 last season against Mississippi State and 4 against UMBC, whoever that is. He made 4 this season against Grambling. That is 11 of the 17 three-points he has hit in his illustrious 1-plus season at Marquette.

Aside from the 4-point play against Syracuse -- perhaps a tad lucky, but I still gotta give him credit -- when has he hit a trey in any situation that mattered?

If his mere presence on the court is for spacing, then fine, let him play a few minutes to space the court until somebody who actually can hit 3-pointers starts to earn minutes.

But our best 3-point shooter? Hell, I'm not sure he's better than Davante.

Not only is Jake not the best 3-point shooter on what would appear to be the worst 3-point shooting team in the last decade, I'm not sure he would crack the top three, excluding Davante due to limited attempts.

Among returning players that attempted at least as many 3PFGs as Jake last season (36), he checks in fourth behind Jamil (.360), Juan (.286), and Todd (.279).

Obviously this does not account for Duane and JJJ, both of whom are expected to contribute from the perimeter.

Fortunately for Jake, it appears as though Buzz will allow him ample opportunity to right the ship.

[4everwarriors]

Maybe Dylan Flood could jack up a few. What the hell, hey?

[Sunbelt15]

Jake, Derrick, and Jamil are all starters that should be at the end of the bench. None of them have come remotely close to playing to expectation. When we and Buzz start to admit it, we can start the change. In Buzz we trust my butt! This team will be much better when the right players are finally put on the floor.

[MerrittsMustache]

Jake, Derrick, and Jamil are all starters that should be at the end of the bench. None of them have come remotely close to playing to expectation. When we and Buzz start to admit it, we can start the change. In Buzz we trust my butt! This team will be much better when the right players are finally put on the floor.

And who are "the right players" exactly? And what makes them so right?

[Sunbelt15]

And who are "the right players" exactly? And what makes them so right?

I admit, I don't know who the right players are. But I can safely say, those three are the wrong players to lean our hopes on. Too much talent still sitting on the bench. Let's stop saying they're not proven. Put them in some games (with an "s") and lets find out what we have.

[CTWarrior]

Not only is Jake not the best 3-point shooter on what would appear to be the worst 3-point shooting team in the last decade, I'm not sure he would crack the top three, excluding Davante due to limited attempts.

Among returning players that attempted at least as many 3PFGs as Jake last season (36), he checks in fourth behind Jamil (.360), Juan (.286), and Todd (.279).

Obviously this does not account for Duane and JJJ, both of whom are expected to contribute from the perimeter.

Fortunately for Jake, it appears as though Buzz will allow him ample opportunity to right the ship.

The thing about Jake is that if you leave him alone he will make 3s.  I agree that for the most part if you keep a man on him he will not, and that he is not particularly hard to guard.  But that still means that you have to keep a man on him which should help free up others and with proper spacing give other guys some room to move and score.  I think that is a big part of the point Merritt is trying to make.  How helpful that is when 1 or 2 other MU guys on the floor are not scoring threats is debatable.

[madtownwarrior]

We can go with:

- a proven (through 3 games and last year) backcourt who may be the worst back court in college basketball but may get slightly better

- an unproven backcourt who has talent (on paper) who may not be ready to play


Buzz is in a tough spot right now - I would test the unproven players as much as possible as you pretty much know the ceiling on Derrick and Jake which is not high D1 ball...

I admit, I don't know who the right players are. But I can safely say, those three are the wrong players to lean our hopes on. Too much talent still sitting on the bench. Let's stop saying they're not proven. Put them in some games (with an "s") and lets find out what we have.

[GooooMarquette]

We can go with:

- a proven (through 3 games and last year) backcourt who may be the worst back court in college basketball but may get slightly better

- an unproven backcourt who has talent (on paper) who may not be ready to play

Buzz is in a tough spot right now - I would test the unproven players as much as possible as you pretty much know the ceiling on Derrick and Jake which is not high D1 ball...

Or the third alternative:  A mixture of a proven but limited PG (Derrick), combined with an unproven player (JJJ) who has talent (on paper) but who may not be ready to play.  And when they need a break, sub in an unproven PG (Dawson) who has talent (on paper) but who may not be ready to play, combined with a proven but limited shooter (Jake).

Neither Derrick nor Jake should be thrown under the bus in favor of the freshmen.  But they're not good enough to play 25+ minutes (Jake) or 35+ minutes (Derrick) against top competition.  And if the freshmen really fail, we can always go back to the proven but limited duo of Derrick and Jake.

[MU82]

Jake, Derrick, and Jamil are all starters that should be at the end of the bench. None of them have come remotely close to playing to expectation. When we and Buzz start to admit it, we can start the change. In Buzz we trust my butt! This team will be much better when the right players are finally put on the floor.

Jake probably should be close to the end of the bench, and would be on a team with a good backcourt, but you are wrong about the other two.

Jamil has a lot of talent. We all know that, and he showed it most of the second half of last season. He is, however, a role player and not a star. His best role is the one he had last season: 25 minutes or so per game, maybe 30+ if he is having one of his on-fire games, primarily to provide scoring. Sadly, others are more "energy players" and better defenders and better rebounders and better leaders.

Derrick, as he has shown in the past, is a nice backup who should get 10-15 minutes per game. He is a superior defender who also seems to have some leadership skills, and he usually won't hurt the team with his decisions.

Unfortunately, Buzz does not feel he has ready alternatives so that Jamil and Derrick can play their proper roles. Hopefully, as the season develops, that will change.

Hyperbole -- "bench all of da bums!" -- helps nothing.

[GooooMarquette]

Jake probably should be close to the end of the bench, and would be on a team with a good backcourt, but you are wrong about the other two.

Hyperbole -- "bench all of da bums!" -- helps nothing.

+1