ESPN Team Preview: Marquette

[Lighthouse 84]

Those guys were great, but they really didn't have to "compete" for starter's minutes. They were given out of necessity. Buzz has the program at a much higher level. Rather than fill gaping holes, freshmen have talented, more experienced guys ahead of them. Tough on the frosh, great for our program.

I realize that Lenny.  I was using the word "compete" in the loosest sense of the word.  I was mainly making a point about the post saying "we've never had freshmen like these."  Obviously, we have.

[brewcity77]

Which is exactly why there is so much uncertainty not only about minutes, but about wins and losses, winning the BEast, making the tournament, reaching the Sweet 16 again and on and on is particularly difficult for this year.

Wondering how Jamil Wilson and Davante will perform is tough enough, and they are relative known entities is tough enough, but needing to rely on unknown freshmen to fill in some notable weaknesses is another.

That said, this is the best thread about the season that I've read in a long time.

That's exactly why I don't think they'll be counted on as heavily as some seem to think. The point is the only position where we really don't have a ton of depth, which is why I think we could see Duane get some significant minutes. Everywhere else, we have experience. Mayo, Jamil, Juan, and Taylor all have experience in the 2-4 switchable roles. I find it hard to believe that freshmen will walk in and easily take their minutes. McKay may not have that same experience, but he's been dominating at a higher level for the past couple years. Most of our JUCO transfers have been more ready to at least contribute significant minutes (Butler, Buycks, DJO, Crowder, with Buzz's boy Fulce the lone exception) from day one.

If they earn it, great. But there are a ton of bodies for them to climb over to get those minutes, and honestly, I think their best chance of playing major minutes would be injury. I'm really hoping we don't have to see a lot of Burton or Johnson this year. That could bode very ill for this year's team.

[jsglow]

That's exactly why I don't think they'll be counted on as heavily as some seem to think. The point is the only position where we really don't have a ton of depth, which is why I think we could see Duane get some significant minutes. Everywhere else, we have experience. Mayo, Jamil, Juan, and Taylor all have experience in the 2-4 switchable roles. I find it hard to believe that freshmen will walk in and easily take their minutes. McKay may not have that same experience, but he's been dominating at a higher level for the past couple years. Most of our JUCO transfers have been more ready to at least contribute significant minutes (Butler, Buycks, DJO, Crowder, with Buzz's boy Fulce the lone exception) from day one.

If they earn it, great. But there are a ton of bodies for them to climb over to get those minutes, and honestly, I think their best chance of playing major minutes would be injury. I'm really hoping we don't have to see a lot of Burton or Johnson this year. That could bode very ill for this year's team.

I think back just a few years and recall when we had difficulty suiting up 10 true D1 players for practice.  My have times changed.  Whatever happens, it'll be earned in the Kasten gym in the bowels of the Al.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If it's a gaurds game how is it that we were good in 2009-10 cause Hayward led us... and in 2010-11 cause Butler led us... and in 2011-12 I know we had DJO but we were led by Crowder.  It kinda seems to me like it's a forwards game.  I'll be the first to say typical centers can be overrated in the college game but it seems like Buzz likes to rely on forwards. 

Yes, Hayward "led" us....where would that team be without Acker, Cubillan, DJO?  Dead in the water.   Where would the "Crowder" led team be without DJO's 18 points per game, JC at the point, etc?

Don't get me wrong, to be a great team you need great guards, great bigs.

Good guards are plentiful and allow anyone to compete.  Good bigs are not plentiful.  Good bigs without good guards don't get it done.  Good guards without good bigs can still win. 

[Sunbelt15]

Jamil can play 2-5 and will be hard to take off the court. There's no one else I can see averaging 32 mpg, but I could easily see him cracking that barrier. Vander, DJO, Crowder, Jimmy (twice), Lazar, Jerel, and WesMat all averaged over 32 mpg in their last season here. Buzz usually has at least 1-2 guys he virtually never takes off the court. I think Jamil will be one. Not sure there will be another, but I'd put DeWil, Mayo, and Gardner as the most likely candidates if there is a second.

Jamil cannot play 2 or 3 effectively unless you want him to catch and shoot all day. He has shown no ability to dribble or handle the ball like a guard. He is a low post player with outside range on a catch and shoot. His defensive footwork isn't good enough to stay with most experienced guards. That's Mayo downfall as a 2 guard as well. His dribbling ability is limited and he cannot crest his own shot. Jamil's advantage is his length, but keep him in the post.

[GGGG]

Jamil cannot play 2 or 3 effectively unless you want him to catch and shoot all day. He has shown no ability to dribble or handle the ball like a guard. He is a low post player with outside range on a catch and shoot. His defensive footwork isn't good enough to stay with most experienced guards. That's Mayo downfall as a 2 guard as well. His dribbling ability is limited and he cannot crest his own shot. Jamil's advantage is his length, but keep him in the post.

While I do agree with most of what you said, I think Jamil does a lot of things well...yet nothing spectacular.  He will play huge minutes - unless injured I have no doubt that he will lead the team in mpg.  He is usually in fantastic shape and developed more consistency as the season went along last year. 

[Eldon]

Listen, it is a stretch claim, but as I stated this summer, Jamil has the potential to be a "five tool guy".  If, and if it is a big if, he can consistently take over games like we all see in him, the NBA will be intrigued, mainly because it is a league that has gotten smaller in recent years.  Scouts fall in love with potential, tend to go with bigs here, but if he dominates like at the end of the Davidson game, don't discount.  He is starting to turn heads.

Now has he moved past a Rodney Hood or Doug McDermott?  No. He will have to show it on the floor.  The Creighton games, 3-5 potentially, will be well attended.

When he has that killer instinct, he is absolutely awesome to watch.  Unfortunately, I don't see it much from him. 

Anyone remember after he made a HUUGE three against Davidson (Butler?) and he blew a kiss at one of the Davidson (Butler?) defenders?  I jumped out of my seat and said "Yea Jamil!  That's the competitiveness I've been longing for, bro!!!"

[PistolPete]

Jamil cannot play 2 or 3 effectively unless you want him to catch and shoot all day. He has shown no ability to dribble or handle the ball like a guard. He is a low post player with outside range on a catch and shoot. His defensive footwork isn't good enough to stay with most experienced guards. That's Mayo downfall as a 2 guard as well. His dribbling ability is limited and he cannot crest his own shot. Jamil's advantage is his length, but keep him in the post.

So, Jamil is a low post player that can't play the 3 effectively?  

He'll start at the 3 and be an All-Big East selection. Book it.

[The Lens]

Yes, Hayward "led" us....where would that team be without Acker, Cubillan, DJO?  Dead in the water.   Where would the "Crowder" led team be without DJO's 18 points per game, JC at the point, etc?

Don't get me wrong, to be a great team you need great guards, great bigs.

Good guards are plentiful and allow anyone to compete.  Good bigs are not plentiful.  Good bigs without good guards don't get it done.  Good guards without good bigs can still win. 

You're absolutely right but there is a ceiling, no pun intended.  The nice thing about this season is we have really good bigs with (presumably) talented but unproven guards.  It beats the usual of really good guards with hard working but low-ceiling bigs.  

[Galway Eagle]

Looking at the RSCI composite rankings, Vander was #48 and JaJuan was #30.

But wasn't Vander a Mcdonalds all american?  I don't think Johnson was. 

[GGGG]

But wasn't Vander a Mcdonalds all american?  I don't think Johnson was. 

Neither one of them were.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're absolutely right but there is a ceiling, no pun intended.  The nice thing about this season is we have really good bigs with (presumably) talented but unproven guards.  It beats the usual of really good guards with hard working but low-ceiling bigs.  

No disagreement there.  If the guards are as good as advertised in combination with the bigs, then all systems go.

[ChicosBailBonds]

But wasn't Vander a Mcdonalds all american?  I don't think Johnson was. 

We've only had three McDonald's all Americans in our history and the last one was 31 years ago.

[swoopem]

I was reading the players profiles on gomarquette the other day and saw that Derrick Wilson was nominated to be a McDonald's AA which was kind of suprising.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If they earn it, great. But there are a ton of bodies for them to climb over to get those minutes, and honestly, I think their best chance of playing major minutes would be injury. I'm really hoping we don't have to see a lot of Burton or Johnson this year. That could bode very ill for this year's team.

We know how good our returning players are. Our freshmen are unproven. If they prove themselves and earn minutes over our returners, i think that's a very good sign for our program. We know that we can develop two, three, and low four stars into great players. The next step towards reaching blue blood status is proving that we can recruit and develop four and five star players.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I was reading the players profiles on gomarquette the other day and saw that Derrick Wilson was nominated to be a McDonald's AA which was kind of suprising.

If you look at the nominating process, not entirely.  There are states like Illinois in the past that only had 3 or 4, including Steve Taylor if I recall.  Then a small state like Iowa had something crazy like 35.  Becoming a nominee is more for show.  Hell, becoming an actual recipient is political and for show as well, but the nominee process definitely is.

Case in point, look at this past year.  Indiana, a basketball crazy state that puts out a ton of talent had 7 nominees.  Iowa has 34.  California, with a population that crushes Iowa, had 24.   It's a bit of a circus.

http://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/content/dam/allamerican/pdfs/2013_Nominee_List_Boys_Girls_updated012913.pdf

[bilsu]

My gut feeling(and that is all it is) that Buzz starts either 3 or 4 seniors this year. Chris will start as center. Gardner would like to play some four, so Buzz will start him there to get that out of the way. Wilson probably wants to play some three, so Buzz will start him there to get that out of the way. However, the majority of their playing times Jamil will be at the four and Gardner will be at the center. I could see Thomas starting at 2, play three minutes and then in most cases never enter the game again. Of course Derrick will start at point, but will play less than Duane, if Duane shows he is ready.

[hoyasincebirth]

Buzz does not like to play freshman. In fact he's dead last in giving time to freshmen compared to his peers even after adjusting for talent level and circumstances.

http://basketball.realgm.com/article/228847

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Buzz does not like to play freshman. In fact he's dead last in giving time to freshmen compared to his major conference peers even after adjusting for talent level and circumstances.

http://basketball.realgm.com/article/228847

Well hes going to have to this year. Derrick Wilson is not the answer at PG. Even though hes a freshman theres no way Duane will struggle so much where he wont get playing time.

[Jay Bee]

Buzz does not like to play freshman. In fact he's dead last in giving time to freshmen compared to his peers even after adjusting for talent level and circumstances.

http://basketball.realgm.com/article/228847

Adjusting for talent level and circumstance is difficult for some to do.

Do you think Buzz thinks, "well, player A is far and away better than player B. But, player A is a freshman. Therefore, screw playing him."

Sounds like Chicos and his 5 year requirement before judging a coach.

[GGGG]

Well hes going to have to this year. Derrick Wilson is not the answer at PG. Even though hes a freshman theres no way Duane will struggle so much where he wont get playing time.

That is the biggest question surrounding this team.

[Galway Eagle]

We've only had three McDonald's all Americans in our history and the last one was 31 years ago.

Huh don't know where I got that idea then. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Adjusting for talent level and circumstance is difficult for some to do.

Do you think Buzz thinks, "well, player A is far and away better than player B. But, player A is a freshman. Therefore, screw playing him."

Sounds like Chicos and his 5 year requirement before judging a coach.

Something I never said.  5 years to FULLY JUDGE, but you can judge plenty along the way...something I wasn't shy about.  "SO FAR SO GOOD"

This is becoming like oft stated error that marriages end in divorce 50% of the time.  No they don't, not close.  Just like I never said you have to wait 5 years to judge a coach....to fully judge, yes (let the recruited classes come through).  Big difference.

On your statements about Freshmen, I agree...he will adapt and play the best players.

[GGGG]

Something I never said.  5 years to FULLY JUDGE, but you can judge plenty along the way...something I wasn't shy about.  "SO FAR SO GOOD"

This is becoming like oft stated error that marriages end in divorce 50% of the time.  No they don't, not close.  Just like I never said you have to wait 5 years to judge a coach....to fully judge, yes (let the recruited classes come through).  Big difference.

How the mighty have backtracked.

[ChicosBailBonds]

How the mighty have backtracked.

Bullshyte........search is your friend.  I'm sure the apology is on the way.     The mighty SEARCH ENGINE has spoken and consistency from day one.  Sorry your bubble just burst.  Thank you search engine!

"I've said on numerous occasions...so far so good"
May 28, 2008

"Too many guys have failed in years 3 - 5 just as many have succeeded....I'll wait to pass full judgment thank you very much, but so far so good."
April 29, 2009

"I'll pass full judgment after I get more facts, but there is a reason why I wait 5 years to evaluate a coach, because it's too easy to fall in love with someone in the first year or two before some of the shine comes off."
June 29, 2010

"That's why you don't completely judge coaches on just the first few years of work.  Sometimes it takes awhile.  Doesn't mean he will succeed, but plenty of examples out there of guys struggling out of the gates only to hit on all cylinders a few years down the road."
Sept 29, 2010

"This is why I wait 4 or 5 years to evaluate coaches because only then are the players truly purged from the previous regime and it gives a full recruiting class under the new coach to matriculate all the way through. "
March 2, 2010

"I like Buzz, always have and probably always will.  Good guy, definitely not a poser.  I have been consistent from day one that I will wait to see what happens with his guys, that typically takes 4 or 5 years. So far so good. I'll stick to it....you fall in love easier than I do....I like to kick the tires, take her for a few test drives before getting down on one knee.  I've seen way too many Bruiser Flints, Steve Lavin at UCLA, etc, etc to not be cautious."
May 13, 2011


And on and on and on.  Despite the evidence, the same mantra from the uninformed here.  Hey, guess what...marriages end in divorce 50% of the time.  Chico said you can't evaluate a coach until 5 years, and you will not have to change your doctor after this new health care bill.  It's amazing what people want to believe.