Malek Harris suspended for the season

[ChicosBailBonds]

He's not here yet so wait till he is here before putting him under MU rules, he is being punished for his current violation, whatever it is.

Also, you act as if basketball players are treated differently than everyone else.  What about if his parents were big donors to the engineering department, or were recognized prominently in promotional materials because of research they did.  

Everything is a case by case basis in life.  

I was being sarcastic, believe me I'm well aware in society that certain people get do overs and 2nd, 3rd, 8th chances while others have zero tolerance.  Well aware of it.  No different at MU than anywhere else.

[Tugg Speedman]

Cheating on a test gets you kicked out of school?

Not for the first offense .. repeated yes.  Plagiarism ... one and done.  Know a kid that was accepted to Dayton, copied and pasted Wikipedia for a paper two months before graduation, was busted and thrown out of school, could not go to Dayton.  Now at a Prep school reapplying with that on his record.  (Our school warns the kids about this and makes them sign a code of conduct.)  

It sucks but the moral is do not plagiarize.  

Maybe Sanberg and other give a free pass or two for kids copying and pasting Wiki as a term paper.  Who knows.

First offense will get you an automatic F in the class and that could have dropped his GPA below the minimum to participate in Basketball.

Again guessing here.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You said he's been suspended "over and over again". If that means twice in your world then you live in a very dim witted one.

And what did you say...."Referring to two suspensions as "multiple suspensions" or being "suspended over and over again" is over the top."    

It's easy Lenny, just admit you are wrong...it will be a first for everyone to witness.  Two suspensions, is absolutely multiple suspensions and in NO WAY over the top.  In fact, it's just flat out dead accurate.  You want to quibble with the "over and over again" part, that's fine....but to say two suspensions aren't multiple in any definition on planet earth is just laughable.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Good lord, what kind of high school did you go to?

My high school was that way.  Zero tolerance...plagiarism or cheating and you were GONE!  You got to appeal it, but if you lost the appeal...GONE

[bilsu]

I'm curious for you and TAMU, if it is pot again....would you have zero tolerance of a threepeat at MU?  Or would he get a 4 peat, 5 peat, etc?  I'm just curious when the second chances run out for folks.  By the way, I'm not against second chances, but I am definitely someone that believes 2nd chances are just that, 2nd chances.

Curious where you guys are on it?

I think he got a second chance when he got a scholarship offer to MU after being suspended for part of his junior year. Besides that Diamond Taylor got a second chance when UW dropped him for burglarising dorms. MU not keeping him does not stop him from getting a third chance. The debate is whether it should be at MU. If not MU it could be a prep school, junior college or some other division one school. My opinion might also be different, if MU and Buzz had not gone through the rape cover up embarrassment. The chances of Harris losing his scholarship is greatly increased by the embarrassment of past discretion at MU by other Buzz players.

[forgetful]

My high school was that way.  Zero tolerance...plagiarism or cheating and you were GONE!  You got to appeal it, but if you lost the appeal...GONE

Those days are long gone.  I know of a case where a student failed a multiple choice exam (scantron), after they were returned the student came back to the instructor saying the machine must have graded their's improperly as they were almost all correct.

Instructor tells them to bring exam to their office.  Sure enough they were almost all correct.  Only 1 problem.

The instructor made a photocopy of all the scantrons turned in.  This students had been erased very well and corrected to give them a B+.  Instructor presents student with the photocopy with different answers.

Student just shrugs shoulders and says, what are you going to do about it...if you take it to the academic conduct council my families attorneys will fight it and win.  Student was right.

Moral of the story, it is a different world than when we were in school.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Those days are long gone.  I know of a case where a student failed a multiple choice exam (scantron), after they were returned the student came back to the instructor saying the machine must have graded their's improperly as they were almost all correct.

Instructor tells them to bring exam to their office.  Sure enough they were almost all correct.  Only 1 problem.

The instructor made a photocopy of all the scantrons turned in.  This students had been erased very well and corrected to give them a B+.  Instructor presents student with the photocopy with different answers.

Student just shrugs shoulders and says, what are you going to do about it...if you take it to the academic conduct council my families attorneys will fight it and win.  Student was right.

Moral of the story, it is a different world than when we were in school.

Not long gone, at least not at all schools.  Harvard Westlake High went through it here a few years ago.  

http://laist.com/2008/02/27/harvardwestlake.php

There was the New York incident last year with 71 students http://nypost.com/2013/09/29/after-cheating-scandal-is-stuyvesant-still-the-best-high-school/

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/on-education/2008/07/11/college-board-cancels-one-schools-ap-scores-after-cheating-scandal

I get your point, but some would argue that is not a good thing.  There should be strict consequences for these types of actions and if you let them go or do a wrist slap, they happen again and again.  

I have zero tolerance for that.  Of course, I think corporal punishment should be brought back as well.  What goes on in many schools today is a joke compared to 50 years ago....no discipline at all.  (before someone attacks me on that statement, I rely heavily on Mother Chico for that...a teacher of over 40+ years, including California teacher of the year and Denver Arch Diocese teacher of the year....she has seen a lot, been through a lot and the discipline of kids today in the classroom has changed dramatically for the worse...causes some environments where kids simply can't learn because of the disruptions from others). 

Get out those rulers and Sr. Mary Louise should be able to swat your hand in front of everyone.   

[GGGG]

Those days are long gone.  I know of a case where a student failed a multiple choice exam (scantron), after they were returned the student came back to the instructor saying the machine must have graded their's improperly as they were almost all correct.

Instructor tells them to bring exam to their office.  Sure enough they were almost all correct.  Only 1 problem.

The instructor made a photocopy of all the scantrons turned in.  This students had been erased very well and corrected to give them a B+.  Instructor presents student with the photocopy with different answers.

Student just shrugs shoulders and says, what are you going to do about it...if you take it to the academic conduct council my families attorneys will fight it and win.  Student was right.

Moral of the story, it is a different world than when we were in school.

It is all fine and well to kick people out of private schools.  However, let's be real here...if you expel kids from public school for cheating, what are they going to do?  Where are they going to go?

It's easy for you and Chicos to sit on your high horse when you don't have to answer these questions.

Don't get me wrong.  Cheating should be dealt with severely.  But expelling a hid from a public school doesn't serve society or the kid any good.

[forgetful]

It is all fine and well to kick people out of private schools.  However, let's be real here...if you expel kids from public school for cheating, what are they going to do?  Where are they going to go?

It's easy for you and Chicos to sit on your high horse when you don't have to answer these questions.

Don't get me wrong.  Cheating should be dealt with severely.  But expelling a hid from a public school doesn't serve society or the kid any good.

First, this was at a private school.

Second, I'm on the record multiple times in this thread saying that students should be given a second chance.

The story was just to convey that times have changed since Chicos, myself and you have attended school.  I will add that I do agree with chicos that it is not necessarily for the better. 

Here, we have a case where the student violated rules and is being punished.  Too often that is not the case and in addition, the parents defend the actions of their kids instead of providing punishment.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It is all fine and well to kick people out of private schools.  However, let's be real here...if you expel kids from public school for cheating, what are they going to do?  Where are they going to go?

It's easy for you and Chicos to sit on your high horse when you don't have to answer these questions.

Don't get me wrong.  Cheating should be dealt with severely.  But expelling a hid from a public school doesn't serve society or the kid any good.

Neither does a slap on the hand and a 3 day "vacation" from school while they are suspended.  I've seen where kids get expelled and another school takes them on.  The state still has an obligation to educate the kid.  Yeah, it's a tough life lesson, but that's the point...it's a lesson.  Imagine how quickly it gets around that if you are caught cheating you are gone....what happens to the number of students that cheat?  It goes down.    No different than anything else.  Wide use of steroids in baseball a decade ago, then the hammer started and what happens?  The number of people doing it drops. 

[GGGG]

Nevermind.  I need to figure out that it never works.

[keefe]

What goes on in many schools today is a joke compared to 50 years ago....no discipline at all. 

Three words: N. E. A.

Karl Marx is smiling.

[Lennys Tap]

And what did you say...."Referring to two suspensions as "multiple suspensions" or being "suspended over and over again" is over the top."    

It's easy Lenny, just admit you are wrong...it will be a first for everyone to witness.  Two suspensions, is absolutely multiple suspensions and in NO WAY over the top.  In fact, it's just flat out dead accurate.  You want to quibble with the "over and over again" part, that's fine....but to say two suspensions aren't multiple in any definition on planet earth is just laughable.

Multiple can mean, at the VERY LEAST, two. Or four, twelve, two hundred, etc. - it depends on the context. You qualified the suspensions twice in your post, saying that he had "multiple suspensions" (2 or more) and that he was suspended "over and over again" (more than 2). So unless you were contradictingk yourself, your use of multiple, in the context of your post, meant more than 2. Even a Chicago State student would understand. You, maybe not.

[keefe]

Multiple can mean, at the VERY LEAST, two. Or four, twelve, two hundred, etc. - it depends on the context. You qualified the suspensions twice in your post, saying that he had "multiple suspensions" (2 or more) and that he was suspended "over and over again" (more than 2). So unless you were contradictingk yourself, your use of multiple, in the context of your post, meant more than 2. Even a Chicago State student would understand. You, maybe not.

He said: "We did it multiple times last night!"

She said: "Well, we did it once then he tried for another but..."

[Tugg Speedman]

Getting back on track ... paint touches said the suspension is not for something illegal.   So what is legal (or not illegal) that is bad enough to kick the star off the basketball team but not bad enough to kick, him out of school?  Apparently that is what happened here.

any ideas of what even fits this criteria?

[forgetful]

Getting back on track ... paint touches said the suspension is not for something illegal.   So what is legal (or not illegal) that is bad enough to kick the star off the basketball team but not bad enough to kick, him out of school?  Apparently that is what happened here.

any ideas of what even fits this criteria?

I'm confused to what they mean.  If you look at the code of conduct, he would have had to committ a class B violation, all of which are illegal.

I think they may mean 'not illegal if of age' and he was simply caught providing alcohol, trying to purchase alcohol or consuming alcohol. 

[4everwarriors]

Tellin' your teacher she looks like a million bucks-----all green and wrinkled.

[bilsu]

These are the things i heard speculated here. If he was caught for underage drinking I probably would not pull his MU scholarship. I might require him to take counseling, since he was suspended once before. If he set a girl's hair on fire I would pull his scholarship. If he was caught smoking pot I would pull his scholarship. We do not need any more Zach McCall embarrassments and you do not want a player on the team that could influence other players to do drugs. Anyone caught cheating in high school should not be admitted to MU. Finally, a player that cannot toe the line probably is not going to survive the demands of Buzz, so why even try to bring him in.

[Tugg Speedman]

I'm confused to what they mean.  If you look at the code of conduct, he would have had to committ a class B violation, all of which are illegal.

I think they may mean 'not illegal if of age' and he was simply caught providing alcohol, trying to purchase alcohol or consuming alcohol.  

This is why we have to wait before passing judgement ... Paint Touches apparently talked to someone on the coaching staff and they said Malek "made a mistake" and what he did was not illegal.  I will assume they are correct.

underage drinking is illegal
Weed is illegal
fighting is illegal

So I'm assuming it is none of these.

What you're doing, which is what everyone else is doing, FORCING an illegal act to explain what happened.  But PT says that is not what happened here.  He was suspended from the team but what he did was not illegal.

Maybe the "mistake" was he told off his coach?  Or he blew off practice.  That is about the only thing that fits.

[GGGG]

This is why we have to wait ... Paint Touches apparently talked to someone in the coaching staff and they said Malek "made a mistake" and what he did was not illegal.  So I will assume they are correct.

underage drinking is illegal
Weed is illegal
fighting is illegal

So I'm assuming it is not of these.

What you're doing, which is what everyone else is doing, FORCING an illegal act to explain what happened.  But PT says that is not what happened here.  He was suspended from the team but what he did was not illegal.

Maybe the "mistake" was he told off his coach?  Or he below off practice.  That is about the only thing that fits.

It could very well be an academic issue as well.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Those days are long gone.  I know of a case where a student failed a multiple choice exam (scantron), after they were returned the student came back to the instructor saying the machine must have graded their's improperly as they were almost all correct.

Instructor tells them to bring exam to their office.  Sure enough they were almost all correct.  Only 1 problem.

The instructor made a photocopy of all the scantrons turned in.  This students had been erased very well and corrected to give them a B+.  Instructor presents student with the photocopy with different answers.

Student just shrugs shoulders and says, what are you going to do about it...if you take it to the academic conduct council my families attorneys will fight it and win.  Student was right.

Moral of the story, it is a different world than when we were in school.

Speak for yourself... graduated HS in 2003 (fairly recently) from an institution where there was a zero-tolerance policy in effect which saw a Yale-bound classmate of mine expelled Senior year.

[Tugg Speedman]

It could very well be an academic issue as well.

As I noted above, an academic issue is really tough to fit here.  What academic issue gets the star basketball player booted off the team but does not get him booted out of school?

I suggested cheating and/or plagiarism and noted this could very well get you kicked out of school.  Then others acted surprised saying they could not believe kids get kicked out for cheating.  I guess their school allow cheating and when you're caught you're told "bad boy" and have to resubmit the paper.

FYI "wandering eyes" during a test is not the same as writing answers on your arm, or whatever the modern technological equivalent is today.  The former is cheating, the latter is an act of desperation from a kid that is going to do bad and often handled with a stern warning in class.

[GGGG]

As I noted above, an academic issue is really tough to fit here.  What academic issue gets the star basketball player booted off the team but does not get him booted out of school?

Skipping class.  Unexcused absence.  Classroom behavior warranting a suspension of some sort.  Those all might be violations of the athletic code that aren't going to get him kicked out of school.

[4everwarriors]

I think we should wait 5 years years before passin' judgment.

[real chili 83]

I think we should wait 5 years years before passin' judgment.

You are on your game tonight!