Paul White to Georgetown

[tower912]

I guess losing one to Georgetown isn't that big a deal. Oh wait, I forgot, he is a switchable that we did not want.

Your comedic talents make me laugh every time. 

[The Equalizer]

I think Buzz wants guys who WANT to be here.

Looney didn't WANT to be here so he's not on our list.

Getting those kids who WANT to be here helps Buzz and the program.

All we need is more of the 4* and 5* to WANT to be at MU. Winning (and placing MUers in the NBA) will solve that.

I don't buy for an instant that Buzz limits his recruiting to only those players who already know they want to come to Marquette.

It's Buzz's job is to CONVINCE players they want to come to Marquette. Not sit back and wait for them to discover it on their own.

[avid1010]

I don't buy for an instant that Buzz limits his recruiting to only those players who already know they want to come to Marquette.

It's Buzz's job is to CONVINCE players they want to come to Marquette. Not sit back and wait for them to discover it on their own.

buzz's job is to win with a team that the university can be proud of.  so far, so good. 

[mu-rara]

I don't buy for an instant that Buzz limits his recruiting to only those players who already know they want to come to Marquette.

It's Buzz's job is to CONVINCE players they want to come to Marquette. Not sit back and wait for them to discover it on their own.

When a player states that they want to go out of state, or al least out of MKE, it is time lost to continue recruiting.  If they don't know, or are open to Marquette, you keep recruiting.

[Dawson Rental]

I don't buy for an instant that Buzz limits his recruiting to only those players who already know they want to come to Marquette.

It's Buzz's job is to CONVINCE players they want to come to Marquette. Not sit back and wait for them to discover it on their own.

And once they decide that they are not interested in Marquette, what is Buzz's job?  To take time away from pursuing recruits that are considering MU to try and change their mind?

[tower912]

Reading the Paint Touches story, the way that Buzz is organized, it looks pretty clear to me that he works hard at recruiting 'Player A'.   If he or his assistants get the word/feeling/vibe that 'Player A' is leaning in another direction, they move on instead of throwing good time/effort/energy after bad.   

[Lennys Tap]

It's Buzz's job is to CONVINCE players they want to come to Marquette. Not sit back and wait for them to discover it on their own.

Buzz, Marquette and the trimmings (boot camp, freshmen in regular student dorms, etc.) aren't for everyone. It's Buzz's job to CONVINCE those players he thinks would buy into the Marquette culture to come to Milwaukee. Some of those who won't will drop Marquette. Others that Buzz doesn't think will end up being dropped by Marquette. Doesn't make much difference really - those guys are better off somewhere else. The ones that hurt are the ones Buzz thinks are the perfect fit who decide otherwise.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Buzz, Marquette and the trimmings (boot camp, freshmen in regular student dorms, etc.) aren't for everyone. It's Buzz's job to CONVINCE those players he thinks would buy into the Marquette culture to come to Milwaukee. Some of those who won't will drop Marquette. Others that Buzz doesn't think will end up being dropped by Marquette. Doesn't make much difference really - those guys are better off somewhere else. The ones that hurt are the ones Buzz thinks are the perfect fit who decide otherwise.

Not necessarily applicable but in my job I only hire employees who fit with the culture of my department. I have turned down 5 star resumes and interviews in favor of 2 stars who will clearly buy into what my department is trying to do. Now what I do, and what Buzz does is very different. There is an argument to be made for the value of pure talent. But personally I prefer "fit" over talent.

Back to the original topic, congrats to both White and Georgetown. This commitment only makes our conference stronger. We will have plenty of opportunities to see Harris vs. White in the future. We can let their games decide who ended up with the better commit.

[The Equalizer]

And once they decide that they are not interested in Marquette, what is Buzz's job?  To take time away from pursuing recruits that are considering MU to try and change their mind?

The comment I responded to said Buzz only recruits players who WANT to come to Marquette.

That is just factually wrong, and just a plain stupid comment.

I'll give you a great example.  Jimmy Butler didn't even have Marquette anywhere near his radar, no less WANTED to come here.  Buzz had to reach out to him and convince him that Marquette was the place for him.

[The Equalizer]

Buzz, Marquette and the trimmings (boot camp, freshmen in regular student dorms, etc.) aren't for everyone. It's Buzz's job to CONVINCE those players he thinks would buy into the Marquette culture to come to Milwaukee. Some of those who won't will drop Marquette. Others that Buzz doesn't think will end up being dropped by Marquette. Doesn't make much difference really - those guys are better off somewhere else. The ones that hurt are the ones Buzz thinks are the perfect fit who decide otherwise.

Take out Buzz and Marquette and insert any coach and college, and you have a statement that applies just about anywhere.

I've got issue with two statements in this thread.

1:  That Buzz only recruits players who "WANT" to come to Marquette.  As I mentioned in another response, Jimmy Butler is a great example of a guy who proves the theory wrong.  Butler was never considering Marquette, didn't have us on his radar, and had never been to campus.  Buzz CONVINCED him to come here--that's a perfect example what I'm talking about.

2:  Making up the "Bo cooled on him" type statements when a highly-rated player chooses to go elsewhere.  We've ridiculed Wisconsin when they took a borderline top 100 player over a borderline top 50 player and their fans tried to spin it as "we got the guy we wanted all along".  It's a silly argument when UW fans make it, and its no more serious when our fans do it.  Hopefully we'll get lucky and the guy we did get will turn out as strong or stronger.

[MuMark]

Not really true about Butler. Buzz built a relationship with him when he was recruiting Fulce...not sure I would describe this as "convincing him" that Mu was the place for him.

Butler, by the way, is at Marquette because Williams kept a promise.

When Williams was still an assistant to Tom Crean, he made recruiting trips to Tyler Junior College in Texas to see Joseph Fulce, who eventually committed to the Golden Eagles. Butler played on the same team.

“Buzz was like a really cool person, and he would always come and check up on Joe,” Butler said. “But he never really talked about basketball. It was always how is school, how is life, how is your family, things like that. And that just rubbed off on me. And he kind of talked to me the same way — not that he was recruiting me, but he was talking to me as a person.”
Butler said Williams told him that if he became a head coach again, he would love to take him. Shortly after Williams succeeded Crean, he offered Butler a scholarship.

“He got the job, and he held his word, which was real big to me because he was actually telling the truth when he said that,” Butler said.

[ChicosBailBonds]

buzz's job is to win with a team that the university can be proud of.  so far, so good. 

For most years, yes.  Some years are a bit harder than others in that category.

[Pakuni]

2:  Making up the "Bo cooled on him" type statements when a highly-rated player chooses to go elsewhere.  We've ridiculed Wisconsin when they took a borderline top 100 player over a borderline top 50 player and their fans tried to spin it as "we got the guy we wanted all along".  It's a silly argument when UW fans make it, and its no more serious when our fans do it.  Hopefully we'll get lucky and the guy we did get will turn out as strong or stronger.

Except this isn't at all what happened with the Harris/White situation.
Buzz recruited both for a "switchable" role he was trying to fill. Which player he wanted more, I don't know. Neither do you.
What we do know is that Harris committed first, filling that switchable role. Logic (and reports of MU no longer pursuing White) dictates that Buzz was not looking for two switchables in the same class.

Keep in mind, MU was still on White's list as late as June 24.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/hoopsreport/2013/06/paul_white_and_other_2014_recr.html

Two days after that story was published, Harris committed to MU. A couple of months later, White trimmed his list and MU was no longer on it.
Coincidence? Seems to me both parties moved on once Harris committed to MU.
It could very well be that Buzz would have preferred White, but figured a bird in the hand was better and took Harris' commitment when he could. But it's clear that the spot White would have taken at MU was already filled.

[brandx]

Except this isn't at all what happened with the Harris/White situation.
Buzz recruited both for a "switchable" role he was trying to fill. Which player he wanted more, I don't know. Neither do you.
What we do know is that Harris committed first, filling that switchable role. Logic (and reports of MU no longer pursuing White) dictates that Buzz was not looking for two switchables in the same class.

Keep in mind, MU was still on White's list as late as June 24.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/hoopsreport/2013/06/paul_white_and_other_2014_recr.html

Two days after that story was published, Harris committed to MU. A couple of months later, White trimmed his list and MU was no longer on it.
Coincidence? Seems to me both parties moved on once Harris committed to MU.
It could very well be that Buzz would have preferred White, but figured a bird in the hand was better and took Harris' commitment when he could. But it's clear that the spot White would have taken at MU was already filled.

Great post.

Every recruitment is different. Sometimes it is the player saying no - sometimes the school moving away from a player. That's the problem with the star rating. There are many 4 & 5 star players that Buzz wouldn't consider. It takes a certain type of person (character) to play for Buzz.

[tower912]

Great point.   You can say that about lots of coaches.   Bo gets a certain kind of player who wants to play for him.   Shaka gets a certain type of player who wants to participate in the Havoc.   JT3 gets certain kind of players who want to play his style and who buy into his track record of getting players to the Association.   MU already has two switchables in this next class, Harris, a 3-4, and Cohen a 1-2-3.     I am comfortable in assuming that one of the two remaining slots is for a 4-5, and the other is for a shooter.   Paul White is a good player.   I think he will do well in the Hoya system.  But he was redundant for this next class after Harris committed.

[NersEllenson]

What people fail to realize is that Equalizer/MU84 is going to take any shot he can at Buzz/the quality of job Buzz has done.  Par for the course.

[The Equalizer]

Except this isn't at all what happened with the Harris/White situation.

Buzz recruited both for a "switchable" role he was trying to fill. Which player he wanted more, I don't know. Neither do you.

Funny how in one breath you can say "this isn't at all what happened" and in the next claim "I don't know." 

Well which is it? If you don't know, how can you start the argument it isn't at all what happened.

Never mind. I'll accept your statement that you don't really know. Neither does anybody else.  Which makes it equally silly when our fans claim in so many words that "Bo Buzz cooled on White" as it was when UW fans did it.

No coach, including Buzz, gets 100% of the players they go after.  Thus, as I said before, there's nothing wrong wth admitting as much, and hoping that they player we got will turn out to be every bit as good as White (if not better). 

[Pakuni]

Funny how in one breath you can say "this isn't at all what happened" and in the next claim "I don't know." 

Well which is it? If you don't know, how can you start the argument it isn't at all what happened.

Never mind. I'll accept your statement that you don't really know. Neither does anybody else.  Which makes it equally silly when our fans claim in so many words that "Bo Buzz cooled on White" as it was when UW fans did it.

No coach, including Buzz, gets 100% of the players they go after.  Thus, as I said before, there's nothing wrong wth admitting as much, and hoping that they player we got will turn out to be every bit as good as White (if not better). 

What? Can you not read?
When I wrote "I don't know" I was specifically referring to which player Buzz preferred, not the sequence of events surrounding their recruitment. That ought to be obvious to any reasonably intelligent person.

Nobody here has suggested Buzz cooled on White. What's been suggested is that after landing a 3/4 switchable in Harris he ended/slowed his pursuit of another 3/4 switchable in White. Buzz, for all we know, loves White as a player, but that doesn't mean he's going to stay on him after landing a very similar player in Harris.
Of course, you know all this.

[tower912]

What people fail to realize is that Equalizer/MU84 is going to take any shot he can at Buzz/the quality of job Buzz has done.  Par for the course.

Oh, no.   EVERYBODY realizes it.   

[GGGG]

2:  Making up the "Bo cooled on him" type statements when a highly-rated player chooses to go elsewhere.  We've ridiculed Wisconsin when they took a borderline top 100 player over a borderline top 50 player and their fans tried to spin it as "we got the guy we wanted all along".  It's a silly argument when UW fans make it, and its no more serious when our fans do it.  Hopefully we'll get lucky and the guy we did get will turn out as strong or stronger.

Actually it very well might not be silly.  We don't know.  Bo very well may have "cooled" on someone and we don't know any different.  We don't ridicule their fan base because they say that occasionally...we ridicule them because that seems to be their only excuse.

In this case however, it is very clear that Buzz stopped recruiting White when Harris committed.  I would also guess that over the course of time, Buzz began to prefer Harris and his style of play over White's, but that would be simply a guess.

[willie warrior]

What people fail to realize is that Equalizer/MU84 is going to take any shot he can at Buzz/the quality of job Buzz has done.  Par for the course.

Yeah--we cannot tolerate any criticism of in Buzz we trust. That is not PC on this board. Remember, Kool Aid is the Happy Hour drink.

[NersEllenson]

Yeah--we cannot tolerate any criticism of in Buzz we trust. That is not PC on this board. Remember, Kool Aid is the Happy Hour drink.

So what you are saying is that we CAN tolerate any criticism of Buzz?  We all know that isn't how you feel Willie - so you've basically just demonstrated yourself as relatively unintelligent because your usage of sarcasm directly conflicts with your viewpoint.  Better go back to the drawing board on this troll attempt Willie.   

[The Equalizer]

Actually it very well might not be silly.  We don't know.  Bo very well may have "cooled" on someone and we don't know any different.  We don't ridicule their fan base because they say that occasionally...we ridicule them because that seems to be their only excuse.

In this case however, it is very clear that Buzz stopped recruiting White when Harris committed.  I would also guess that over the course of time, Buzz began to prefer Harris and his style of play over White's, but that would be simply a guess.

It might help if we start with you re-reading the comment that I initially responded to:

You only have 13 scholarships, so you can't take everyone. Marquette's first choice was Harris. When he committed, the scholarship was filled. There was no further need nor interest in White because we had the guy we wanted.

Pakuni claims nobody knows.  You claim you can "only guess".  I can accept those sort of statements.    

The comment I intially replied to unambiguously flat-out claimed that "Marquette's first choice was Harris."  
  
That's one theory--but its certainly possible that White may have told Buzz privately that MU was off his list long before news was public, and prompted to Buzz to ramp up his recruitment of Harris. Or Buzz was completely indifferent and took the first player to commit.  Or Buzz may have preferred White, but took Harris (as Pakuni theorizes) under the theory that he didn't want to risk waiting and losing out on both.

Therefore, given that we don't know the reason when someone says after the fact that "Marquette's first choice was Harris", it sure sounds an awful lot like those UW fans who claim "Bo cooled on Player X".    

[GGGG]

It might help if we start with you re-reading the comment that I initially responded to:

Pakuni claims nobody knows.  You claim you can "only guess".  I can accept those sort of statements.     

The comment I intially replied to unambiguously flat-out claimed that "Marquette's first choice was Harris." 
 
Its certainly possible that White may have told Buzz privately that MU was off his list long before news was public, and prompted to Buzz to ramp up his recruitment of Harris. Or Buzz was completely indifferent and took the first player to commit.  Or Buzz may have preferred White, but took Harris (as Pakuni theorizes) under the theory that he didn't want to risk waiting and losing out on both.

Therefore, given that we don't know the reason when someone says after the fact that "Marquette's first choice was Harris", it sure sounds an awful lot like those UW fans who claim "Bo cooled on Player X".   

I am only saying "I guess" because I am not 100% certain.  However my certainty that brew is correct exceeds 95%. 

As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, there are concerns about *how* White plays.  Now contrast that with what has been described about Harris and his style of play, and you can see how Buzz might be more interested.

[willie warrior]

So what you are saying is that we CAN tolerate any criticism of Buzz?  We all know that isn't how you feel Willie - so you've basically just demonstrated yourself as relatively unintelligent because your usage of sarcasm directly conflicts with your viewpoint.  Better go back to the drawing board on this troll attempt Willie.   

Ners "we all know how you feel Willie". Translation: You have no clue. "Basically just demonstrated"--one can surely figure out that means nothing except in your eyes. And finally "relatively unintelligent"--If the shoe fits, wear it, Ners.