Time Cover: It's Time to Pay College Athletes

[Pakuni]

Yeah you are misreading me.  What I am saying is that if they tack on a stipend on every scholarship (not just revenue producing ones) they should be fine.

Fine how? The amount they're talking about, I think we agree, isn't nearly enough to dissuade athletes from taking impermissible benefits if offered. The kind of money it would take is well above what most schools can or are willing to afford. And it won't make a difference in any of the other maladies facing college athletics.
I think it's great if the kids can get a reasonable stipend, but I don't think it's going to make a bit of a difference.

The other thing that they could do is allow athletes to profit off of their own name.  That would fall outside of the NCAA rules and Title IX, and then them earn what the free market bears.  So if Manziel wants to earn $50,000 in a summer for autographs, that's just fine.  If a local car dealer wants Chris Otule to be its spokesman, that's fine too.

That's fine, but realistically - as you and others have mentioned - this really would benefit only a very small percentage of athletes, even among athletes in the revenue producing sports.
Plus, it opens a whole other can of worms. If these kids are going to sign endorsement deals, who's going to represent them? Who's going to review the contracts? Who's going to decide what products are/are not acceptable? Can college athletes appear in beer ads, or ads for a local sports bar? Can a kid at a Nike school take money for wearing adidas? And how does that affect the school's deal with Nike?
There'd be a lot of issues to resolve.

[GGGG]

Fine how?

From a Title IX perspective.

That's fine, but realistically - as you and others have mentioned - this really would benefit only a very small percentage of athletes, even among athletes in the revenue producing sports.
Plus, it opens a whole other can of worms. If these kids are going to sign endorsement deals, who's going to represent them? Who's going to review the contracts? Who's going to decide what products are/are not acceptable? Can college athletes appear in beer ads, or ads for a local sports bar? Can a kid at a Nike school take money for wearing adidas? And how does that affect the school's deal with Nike?
There'd be a lot of issues to resolve.

They could have agents.  They could endorse whatever is legal for them to endorse.  The shoe contract thing can be worked out.

I'm really not sure why this is such a big deal.  I mean if Johnny Manziel hires an agent, gets signed by Hooters and shoots a few ads and makes some $$ in the process, what is wrong?  Why should that prevent him from playing college football?

[Tugg Speedman]

They could have agents.  They could endorse whatever is legal for them to endorse.  The shoe contract thing can be worked out.

I'm really not sure why this is such a big deal.  I mean if Johnny Manziel hires an agent, gets signed by Hooters and shoots a few ads and makes some $$ in the process, what is wrong?  Why should that prevent him from playing college football?

+1

Imagine Otule doing ads of Aurora Health (Big MU Sponsor) saying they "help keep him on the court."

Gardner pitching Ford Trucks for a Local Dealer

Blue doing Qdoba

And so on.  

Here is a list of MU sponsors.  How many of them would hire players as pitchmen if they could?

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/nelligan/spec-rel/092512aaf.html

540 ESPN Radio
Aloft Milwaukee Downtown
Ambassador Hotel
Aurora Health Care
Aurora Sinai Medical Center
Aurora Sports Medicine Institute
Beer Capitol Distributors
Bergstrom Corporation
The Bog Golf Course
Bravo!
Bubb's BBQ
Callen Design Group
Carnevor Steakhouse Moderne
CBS Sports
ColorInk
Cricket
Cyganiak Planning, Inc.
Direct Supply, Inc.
Elite Sports Clubs
Forward Dental
Foster Grant
Goodwill of Southeastern Wisconsin
Gordon Flesch
Grand Appliance & TV
The Great Frame Up
Heartland Value Fund
The Hilton
Jim Phillips LLC
Jimmy John's
Joey Buona's
McCormick Law Office
McDonald's
Midwest Foods
MillerCoors
Milwaukee Orthopaedic Group, Ltd.
The Opus Group
Palermo's Pizza
Pepsi
Pizza Hut
Qdoba
OfficeMax
R.A. Smith
Robert W. Baird & Co.
Saz's
State Farm
Steinhafels
SURG Restaurant Group
Schwanke-Kasten Jewelers
Time Warner Cable
Umami Moto
United Health Care
U.S. Bank
Upper90 SportsPub
Yellowbook
Ward's House of Prime
We Energies
West Bend Insurance
Wisconsin Dells
Wisconsin Milk Marketing Board

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

+1

Imagine Otule doing ads of Aurora Health (Big MU Sponsor) saying they "help keep him on the court."

Gardner pitching Ford Trucks for a Local Dealer

Blue doing Qdoba

And so on.  

Here is a list of MU sponsors.  How many of them would hire players as pitchmen if they could?

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/nelligan/spec-rel/092512aaf.html

540 ESPN Radio
Aloft Milwaukee Downtown
Ambassador Hotel
Aurora Health Care
Aurora Sinai Medical Center
Aurora Sports Medicine Institute
Beer Capitol Distributors
Bergstrom Corporation
The Bog Golf Course
Bravo!
Bubb's BBQ
Callen Design Group
Carnevor Steakhouse Moderne
CBS Sports
ColorInk
Cricket
Cyganiak Planning, Inc.
Direct Supply, Inc.
Elite Sports Clubs
Forward Dental
Foster Grant
Goodwill of Southeastern Wisconsin
Gordon Flesch
Grand Appliance & TV
The Great Frame Up
Heartland Value Fund
The Hilton
Jim Phillips LLC
Jimmy John's
Joey Buona's
McCormick Law Office
McDonald's
Midwest Foods
MillerCoors
Milwaukee Orthopaedic Group, Ltd.
The Opus Group
Palermo's Pizza
Pepsi
Pizza Hut
Qdoba
OfficeMax
R.A. Smith
Robert W. Baird & Co.
Saz's
State Farm
Steinhafels
SURG Restaurant Group
Schwanke-Kasten Jewelers
Time Warner Cable
Umami Moto
United Health Care
U.S. Bank
Upper90 SportsPub
Yellowbook
Ward's House of Prime
We Energies
West Bend Insurance
Wisconsin Dells
Wisconsin Milk Marketing Board

Here's the thing:

Steve "the homer" True is more famous and well known than any of the players on the roster.

How many sponsorship deals does he have?

I don't know if there is as much spokesperson $ out there as you think.

[ChicosBailBonds]

+1

Imagine Otule doing ads of Aurora Health (Big MU Sponsor) saying they "help keep him on the court."

Gardner pitching Ford Trucks for a Local Dealer

Blue doing Qdoba

And so on.  

Here is a list of MU sponsors.  How many of them would hire players as pitchmen if they could?

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/nelligan/spec-rel/092512aaf.html

540 ESPN Radio
Aloft Milwaukee Downtown
Ambassador Hotel
Aurora Health Care
Aurora Sinai Medical Center
Aurora Sports Medicine Institute
Beer Capitol Distributors
Bergstrom Corporation
The Bog Golf Course
Bravo!
Bubb's BBQ
Callen Design Group
Carnevor Steakhouse Moderne
CBS Sports
ColorInk
Cricket
Cyganiak Planning, Inc.
Direct Supply, Inc.
Elite Sports Clubs
Forward Dental
Foster Grant
Goodwill of Southeastern Wisconsin
Gordon Flesch
Grand Appliance & TV
The Great Frame Up
Heartland Value Fund
The Hilton
Jim Phillips LLC
Jimmy John's
Joey Buona's
McCormick Law Office
McDonald's
Midwest Foods
MillerCoors
Milwaukee Orthopaedic Group, Ltd.
The Opus Group
Palermo's Pizza
Pepsi
Pizza Hut
Qdoba
OfficeMax
R.A. Smith
Robert W. Baird & Co.
Saz's
State Farm
Steinhafels
SURG Restaurant Group
Schwanke-Kasten Jewelers
Time Warner Cable
Umami Moto
United Health Care
U.S. Bank
Upper90 SportsPub
Yellowbook
Ward's House of Prime
We Energies
West Bend Insurance
Wisconsin Dells
Wisconsin Milk Marketing Board

Another....seriously....you are kidding yourself. I was in the sponsorship business for a LONG LONG time in sports.  College, professional, and then I was on the other end buying it for DIRECTV for many years before switching roles.  Buying it for teams, players (Peyton and Eli Manning, etc), leagues, stadiums, arenas, special events (Quarterback Challenge, basketball tournaments, etc).

It's nice to have a pretty list like this, but that's not how it works.  Marquette sells sponsorships today, and many on that list are merely buying radio spots or whatever from their media budgets...it's taking dollars from one bucket and putting elsewhere, doesn't mean they have a Marquette liking at all.  MU would be at such a disadvantage compared to Wisconsin in this state it would be laughable.  The whole deal with sponsorships is who makes the decisions to purchase....well at least that is a big part of it.  For every company that has a high placed MU person in the C class ranks or the purchasing decision chair, there will be 5 companies with UW graduates based purely on numbers.  We would get our clocks cleaned in the money game.

[Eldon]

Yea, good point.  I would say Buzz is the most recognizable face and I don't ever recall seeing him on TV doing ads or any other sponsorships for that matter.  I do, however, remember Bruce Pearl doing ads/promotions for Ernie Von Schleidorn (sp?).  But, of course, maybe Buzz just turns them down.

[GGGG]

Yea, good point.  I would say Buzz is the most recognizable face and I don't ever recall seeing him on TV doing ads or any other sponsorships for that matter.  I do, however, remember Bruce Pearl doing ads/promotions for Ernie Von Schleidorn (sp?).  But, of course, maybe Buzz just turns them down.

Bruce Pearl doing commercials for Dirty Ernie is full of delicious irony.

[Tugg Speedman]

Here's the thing:

Steve "the homer" True is more famous and well known than any of the players on the roster.

How many sponsorship deals does he have?

I don't know if there is as much spokesperson $ out there as you think.

Yea, good point.  I would say Buzz is the most recognizable face and I don't ever recall seeing him on TV doing ads or any other sponsorships for that matter.  I do, however, remember Bruce Pearl doing ads/promotions for Ernie Von Schleidorn (sp?).  But, of course, maybe Buzz just turns them down.

I don't live in Milwaukee so don't watch the local broadcasts.  I do listen to the games on the stream and Buzz and Homer are pitching crap ALL THE TIME on the radio commercials.

[Tugg Speedman]

Another....seriously....you are kidding yourself. I was in the sponsorship business for a LONG LONG time in sports.  College, professional, and then I was on the other end buying it for DIRECTV for many years before switching roles.  Buying it for teams, players (Peyton and Eli Manning, etc), leagues, stadiums, arenas, special events (Quarterback Challenge, basketball tournaments, etc).

It's nice to have a pretty list like this, but that's not how it works.  Marquette sells sponsorships today, and many on that list are merely buying radio spots or whatever from their media budgets...it's taking dollars from one bucket and putting elsewhere, doesn't mean they have a Marquette liking at all.  MU would be at such a disadvantage compared to Wisconsin in this state it would be laughable.  The whole deal with sponsorships is who makes the decisions to purchase....well at least that is a big part of it.  For every company that has a high placed MU person in the C class ranks or the purchasing decision chair, there will be 5 companies with UW graduates based purely on numbers.  We would get our clocks cleaned in the money game.

Not in Milwaukee

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I don't live in Milwaukee so don't watch the local broadcasts.  I do listen to the games on the stream and Buzz and Homer are pitching crap ALL THE TIME on the radio commercials.

Homer reads the assigned spots (as all play by play guys do), and voices a couple of commercials (Saz's and Cyganiack (sp)). Same for Buzz. I think he's in 2 spots.

That's 2. Let's double it and say it's 4.

4 spots for the 2 most visible members of the program. That's not a lot.

What is your expectation? That the top 2 or 3 players will make thousands of dollars on endorsements? I just don't see it happening. There isn't really a need in the marketplace for 20yr old pitchmen doing local ads.

[GGGG]

Homer reads the assigned spots (as all play by play guys do), and voices a couple of commercials (Saz's and Cyganiack (sp)). Same for Buzz. I think he's in 2 spots.

That's 2. Let's double it and say it's 4.

4 spots for the 2 most visible members of the program. That's not a lot.

What is your expectation? That the top 2 or 3 players will make thousands of dollars on endorsements? I just don't see it happening. There isn't really a need in the marketplace for 20yr old pitchmen doing local ads.

Exactly.

I mean, how many Green Bay Packers pitch ads locally? 

[Tugg Speedman]

If you're right then the NCAA should allow it as it will not change anything, correct?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not in Milwaukee

Again, I think you are way underestimating the reality out there and how marketing organizations who have to spend those dollars will do so.  Just look at the Journal Sentinel or the local television stations and the amount of time they give Wisconsin vs Marquette right there in Milwaukee.


Let's put it this way, if I was at a Milwaukee company and in marketing \ advertising \ sponsorships (roles I've held in the past) and I'm looking to see where I am going to put my dollars in Milwaukee (assuming sports fans were a target of mine).  I can guarantee you in that situation for SURE I am going with Wisconsin.  I have a fiduciary responsibility to make those dollars work and to touch as many as I can. There are far more Wisconsin alumni and fans in Milwaukee than Marquette.  Now, I may decide to split my budgets and put some dollars also into Marquette, but I'm definitely going to support Wisconsin.  Oh, and because MU doesn't have football, from August to November I'm also going to support Wisconsin football and the halo effect that brings.

Again, MU will be a small piece of the pie. Sure you will have a few, smaller companies that put their dollars behind MU because of alumni ties, or whatever.  But a company like American Family, Northwestern Mutual, Manpower, Harley, etc....they cannot afford to advertise just with MU...they can certainly afford to advertise just with UW, they MIGHT advertise with both, but alienating MU fans is a drop in the bucket vs alienating UW fans. 

[GGGG]

Chicos, you are very likely correct.

But really who at the UW is going to get big time promotion deals?  And even if you could roll back time and could say "well Montee Ball would," I would argue that it's not a bad thing anyway.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If you're right then the NCAA should allow it as it will not change anything, correct?

I am right.

You seem to think there is a significant amount of funds out there for MU players to make with local endorsements.

I see no indication that there is.

[MerrittsMustache]

Again, I think you are way underestimating the reality out there and how marketing organizations who have to spend those dollars will do so.  Just look at the Journal Sentinel or the local television stations and the amount of time they give Wisconsin vs Marquette right there in Milwaukee.


Let's put it this way, if I was at a Milwaukee company and in marketing \ advertising \ sponsorships (roles I've held in the past) and I'm looking to see where I am going to put my dollars in Milwaukee (assuming sports fans were a target of mine).  I can guarantee you in that situation for SURE I am going with Wisconsin.  I have a fiduciary responsibility to make those dollars work and to touch as many as I can. There are far more Wisconsin alumni and fans in Milwaukee than Marquette.  Now, I may decide to split my budgets and put some dollars also into Marquette, but I'm definitely going to support Wisconsin.  Oh, and because MU doesn't have football, from August to November I'm also going to support Wisconsin football and the halo effect that brings.

Again, MU will be a small piece of the pie. Sure you will have a few, smaller companies that put their dollars behind MU because of alumni ties, or whatever.  But a company like American Family, Northwestern Mutual, Manpower, Harley, etc....they cannot afford to advertise just with MU...they can certainly afford to advertise just with UW, they MIGHT advertise with both, but alienating MU fans is a drop in the bucket vs alienating UW fans.  

That's true at the macro level but what about on the micro level?

For example, instead of having the PA announcer read an ad during a timeout or playing a generic commercial on the Jumbotron, would a company have any interest in throwing Jamil Wilson a couple hundred bucks to do a 30-second Jumbotron spot? Or a firm paying Gardner to wear their logo on his shirt during a Big East Tourney postgame presser. I think that's more the type of "endorsement" that college athletes would be receiving.

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's true at the macro level but what about on the micro level?

For example, instead of having the PA announcer read an ad during a timeout or playing a generic commercial on the Jumbotron, would a company have any interest in throwing Jamil Wilson a couple hundred bucks to do a 30-second Jumbotron spot? Or a firm paying Gardner to wear their logo on his shirt during a Big East Tourney postgame presser. I think that's more the type of "endorsement" that college athletes would be receiving.

Perhaps, but there in comes the rub again.  How is that going to be policed?  Does Jamil get $500 for doing that while Wiggins gets $5000?    The Pandora's Box on this thing is gigantic, and I certainly recognize that this crap is already going on at some places.  I think we are inviting the dirty to get way dirtier.

[Tugg Speedman]

I am right.

You seem to think there is a significant amount of funds out there for MU players to make with local endorsements.

I see no indication that there is.

Buzz cannot do 30 endorsements as it dilutes his brand.  He can only do 2 to 4.  Ditto Homer.  As noted above, they already do 2 to 4.

That leaves 25 other endorsers with some unknown announcer explaining their product.  If Buzz and Homer are already full, who else would you take?

All I'm arguing the number is above zero.  You seem steadfast that the number is zero and not moving off that.

[Tugg Speedman]

Perhaps, but there in comes the rub again.  How is that going to be policed?  Does Jamil get $500 for doing that while Wiggins gets $5000?    The Pandora's Box on this thing is gigantic, and I certainly recognize that this crap is already going on at some places.  I think we are inviting the dirty to get way dirtier.

Why does it have to be policed?  Free market will take care of it.

[MerrittsMustache]

Perhaps, but there in comes the rub again.  How is that going to be policed?  Does Jamil get $500 for doing that while Wiggins gets $5000?    The Pandora's Box on this thing is gigantic, and I certainly recognize that this crap is already going on at some places.  I think we are inviting the dirty to get way dirtier.

If the NCAA feels that it's necessary, they could cap individual endorsements. Either way, players should have to sign contracts that come through the university's compliance office.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Buzz cannot do 30 endorsements as it dilutes his brand.  He can only do 2 to 4.  Ditto Homer.  As noted above, they already do 2 to 4.

That leaves 25 other endorsers with some unknown announcer explaining their product.  If Buzz and Homer are already full, who else would you take?

All I'm arguing the number is above zero.  You seem steadfast that the number is zero and not moving off that.

Fine the number is above zero.

But, initially you implied that it would be a big opportunity for student athletes to cash in.

I'm just not seeing it.

Also, Homer is a whore. He would put his name on anything/everything (as well he should).

There just isn't that much demand for "local celebrity" spokespeople. If there was, Randall Cobb, James Jones, AJ Hawk, Carlos Gomez etc. etc. would be on billboards all over the place.

They aren't. The top guys are going to get theirs. But, the most popular MU player is about 1/10 as popular as James Jones, and therefore, not likely to generate much (if any) revenue.

[jesmu84]

Why does it have to be policed?  Free market will take care of it.

What's to prevent a booster from telling a recruit if he comes to University X, he'll guarantee $50K for a couple of endorsements? Doesn't the "free market" go out the window when a big time booster wants a big time recruit at their university?

[ChicosBailBonds]

If the NCAA feels that it's necessary, they could cap individual endorsements. Either way, players should have to sign contracts that come through the university's compliance office.

Do we really think that will work?  Today the cap on payments is $0, and it doesn't work.  The NCAA has no way to police this stuff, they don't have the resources to police it.  No different, in my opinion, to the jobs these kids are allowed to do today....how often do we already find out the kid never did the job, or was grossly overpaid for the job at hand.  Besides, it would be so easy to cook the books.   "Here Mr. Dekker is your $500 paycheck for the commercial spot limited as the max by the NCAA"  <and under the table is another $5G for all the gas money to get you down here to the studio...good job>

It just becomes another shell game that is tacitly endorsed but difficult to police. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, you are very likely correct.

But really who at the UW is going to get big time promotion deals?  And even if you could roll back time and could say "well Montee Ball would," I would argue that it's not a bad thing anyway.

I would use it as a recruiting tool.  Come to UW and I'll guarantee you X number of endorsements valued at $X

[Tugg Speedman]

What's to prevent a booster from telling a recruit if he comes to University X, he'll guarantee $50K for a couple of endorsements? Doesn't the "free market" go out the window when a big time booster wants a big time recruit at their university?

Don't kid yourself, this happens now.  Bring it out in the open and everyone knows what is going on and the price of admission.