Buzz Williams on Short list of coaches under 45 who will make the HOF

[Lennys Tap]

No my point is more along the lines of Barnes has 2 sweet 16s 2 elite 8s and a Final Four under his belt meanwhile Buzz has two sweet 16s and an elite 8.  I highly doubt that they'd pay more for a coach who has less to boast on his resume than the coach they had just fired. 

I disagree. Barnes is older and trending down. Last 3 years:28-8, 20-14, 16-18 with 1 NCAA win. Buzz is an established but still young gun with a great looking chart:22-15, 27-8, 26-9, Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Elite 8.

I don't care where IBM was trading 5 or 10 years ago, I'd pay more for Apple or Google today.

[jmayer1]

Home-state. The "jock taxes" are at this point aimed mostly at specific leagues (NBA, NHL for example).

Wrong

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm employed by a consulting firm as well...required to file in each of the states in which I work in any given year.

Yeah, we have a few PWC folks that have to do the same thing.  I realize it isn't just for athletes, I just find the whole "jock tax" thing a money grab.  It's easy, no one will have any sympathy for them so the public won't care.  IMO

[KenoshaWarrior]

I too am a big time Consultant for a large company and I know that......

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I have no comment about whether or not Buzz would leave should the UT job become open. I can see plenty of reasons on both sides...I'd like to say it makes more sense for him to stay. But I, like everyone else here, tend to look at things with blue and gold glasses on.

What I can comment on is UT's spending habits. I work just down the road from them. If you want Barnes to keep his job, then you need to not only cheer for the Longhorns in basketball, you need to cheer AGAINST them in football. There is a lot of discontent with Mack Brown. Longhorns fans expect nothing less than national championships. And not only has Brown failed to deliver but fans have had to watch as their rival down the road become top 5 team in the nation. Not only that but the Aggies are starting to outrecruit them.

Texas fans don't give a rat's bum about basketball. They don't have the attention span to give it any thought. Not when their football team needs so much fixing. Fans will only notice Rick Barnes' decline once their football team is finally in a good place.

[Aughnanure]

I disagree. Barnes is older and trending down. Last 3 years:28-8, 20-14, 16-18 with 1 NCAA win. Buzz is an established but still young gun with a great looking chart:22-15, 27-8, 26-9, Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Elite 8.

I don't care where IBM was trading 5 or 10 years ago, I'd pay more for Apple or Google today.

Counterpoint - This shows that UT isn't very loyal to the most successful Texas basketball coach EVER. Seriously, the guy has missed ONE tourney appearance in his entire 15 years, accounts for 47% of their all-time tourney appearances, 43% of their Elite Eights, 33% of their Final Fours, nearly 20% of their all-time wins, and everyone is all for ditching him as soon as they can.

Sometimes you have down stretches. Deal with it. It wasn't that long ago that Boeheim missed 2 out of three tourneys (and only got in one b/c McNamara won the BE tourney). Patience is a virtue.

Barnes is a solid, if not great, coach that has been hurt by his successes with freshman so that now everyone thinks they should get to the NBA immediately.

If Buzz goes to UT, Marquette should grab Barnes or Howland without hesitation. Here's hoping 6 years in one place, raising his young kids in one location, has started to grow on him.

[Galway Eagle]

Counterpoint - This shows that UT isn't very loyal to the most successful Texas basketball coach EVER. Seriously, the guy has missed ONE tourney appearance in his entire 15 years, accounts for 47% of their all-time tourney appearances, 43% of their Elite Eights, 33% of their Final Fours, nearly 20% of their all-time wins, and everyone is all for ditching him as soon as they can.

Sometimes you have down stretches. Deal with it. It wasn't that long ago that Boeheim missed 2 out of three tourneys (and only got in one b/c McNamara won the BE tourney). Patience is a virtue.

Barnes is a solid, if not great, coach that has been hurt by his successes with freshman so that now everyone thinks they should get to the NBA immediately.

If Buzz goes to UT, Marquette should grab Barnes or Howland without hesitation. Here's hoping 6 years in one place, raising his young kids in one location, has started to grow on him.

Maybe by then Brad Stevens will be looking for a new college job!

[bilsu]

Two years ago there were a lot of Louisville fans that wanted to get rid of Pitino. Part of it had to do with off court issues, but as soon as fans think the team is not doing as well as it should the coach is in trouble. It can be offset by a great recruiting class coming in, which is why you do not hear Kentucky fans complaing about Kentucky going to NIT. However, imagine the reaction, if Kentucky ended up in NIT again this year.

[Galway Eagle]

Two years ago there were a lot of Louisville fans that wanted to get rid of Pitino. Part of it had to do with off court issues, but as soon as fans think the team is not doing as well as it should the coach is in trouble. It can be offset by a great recruiting class coming in, which is why you do not hear Kentucky fans complaing about Kentucky going to NIT. However, imagine the reaction, if Kentucky ended up in NIT again this year.

I'd actually prefer to see Kentucky be the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 over going to the NIT

[Lennys Tap]

Counterpoint - This shows that UT isn't very loyal to the most successful Texas basketball coach EVER. Seriously, the guy has missed ONE tourney appearance in his entire 15 years, accounts for 47% of their all-time tourney appearances, 43% of their Elite Eights, 33% of their Final Fours, nearly 20% of their all-time wins, and everyone is all for ditching him as soon as they can.

Sometimes you have down stretches. Deal with it. It wasn't that long ago that Boeheim missed 2 out of three tourneys (and only got in one b/c McNamara won the BE tourney). Patience is a virtue.

Barnes is a solid, if not great, coach that has been hurt by his successes with freshman so that now everyone thinks they should get to the NBA immediately.

If Buzz goes to UT, Marquette should grab Barnes or Howland without hesitation. Here's hoping 6 years in one place, raising his young kids in one location, has started to grow on him.

I'm not saying UT should fire Barnes. I think they owe him a year or two to see if he can right the ship.

I'm saying I don't see it as far fetched that Texas would pay up for Buzz and can Barnes - makes much more sense (looking at resumes, trends, etc.) than what UCLA did.

[bilsu]

I'd actually prefer to see Kentucky be the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 over going to the NIT

The only thing better than that would be having MU be the 16th seed that beat them. Kentucky the all-time winningest program has as losing record vs MU in NCAA tournament.

[Galway Eagle]

Ok lets ignore the home state aspect for one second and just look at the schools as if it were any coach deciding where to go. Marquette is Basketball centric Texas is Football centric, Marquette 31 tournament appearances Texas 30, Marquette 16 sweet 16s Texas 10, Both have 7 elite 8s and 3 Final fours, MU has been the runner up and won a title while Texas hasn't done either, and both schools compete in high major conferences. Fact is MU basketball > Texas Basketball so there's no reason for all this Buzz to Texas talk outside of him being from Texas, I mean I can't imagine us talking about this if it were any other coaches.  

Also at least since 2000 Texas has never been above us in attendance. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ok lets ignore the home state aspect for one second and just look at the schools as if it were any coach deciding where to go. Marquette is Basketball centric Texas is Football centric, Marquette 31 tournament appearances Texas 30, Marquette 16 sweet 16s Texas 10, Both have 7 elite 8s and 3 Final fours, MU has been the runner up and won a title while Texas hasn't done either, and both schools compete in high major conferences. Fact is MU basketball > Texas Basketball so there's no reason for all this Buzz to Texas talk outside of him being from Texas, I mean I can't imagine us talking about this if it were any other coaches.  

Also at least since 2000 Texas has never been above us in attendance. 

The perception amongst high school aged men is that Texas is lightyears above Marquette. Even though we know it is not true, marketing and brand recognition are working in Texas' favor. They can get top recruits much easier than we can. That's tempting for any coach.

There is also the fact if Texas decided to throw money at basketball, their budget could dwarf ours in a second. This is why we want to cheer against Texas football. As long as they aren't winning championships, the administration will keep throwing the money that way.

[Atticus]

There is also the fact if Texas decided to throw money at basketball, their budget could dwarf ours in a second. This is why we want to cheer against Texas football. As long as they aren't winning championships, the administration will keep throwing the money that way.

For the 2010-11 academic tear, UT spent $133.7M.    Keep in mind they only have 19 varsity sports...and 5 jets. Second place, in terms of spending, went to Ohio State - they spent $11.5M less in the same year....for their 36 teams! The team that ranked 10th in the same year was Oklahoma - a school that spent almost $40M less than UT for their sports.

There really isnt a *need* to throw more into the football program. While they are getting a return on their annual investment, they arent getting a great return from a performance standpoint. The football program doesnt need more money...it needs better coaching and recruiting.

"They do everything they can to set themselves apart, that they are the very best, they are the elite," says Bill Byrne, who retired last week after 10 years as Texas A&M's athletics director. "I believe DeLoss (Dodds, the Longhorns' longtime AD) said 'we are the Joneses.' They act that way, and they spend that way."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-15/texas-athletics-spending-revenue/54960210/1

Over a year old, but still relevant.

[bilsu]

OK lets ignore the home state aspect for one second and just look at the schools as if it were any coach deciding where to go. Marquette is Basketball centric Texas is Football centric, Marquette 31 tournament appearances Texas 30, Marquette 16 sweet 16s Texas 10, Both have 7 elite 8s and 3 Final fours, MU has been the runner up and won a title while Texas hasn't done either, and both schools compete in high major conferences. Fact is MU basketball > Texas Basketball so there's no reason for all this Buzz to Texas talk outside of him being from Texas, I mean I can't imagine us talking about this if it were any other coaches.  

Also at least since 2000 Texas has never been above us in attendance. 

I think whether MU completes in a high major conference is a debatable question. My guess is that if Buzz leaves it will be due more to the conference than it is to MU. MU playing in the old Big East, where you played Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburg, Uconn, Cincy and West Virginia was an easier sell to recruits vs games against teams in the current conference.

[Galway Eagle]

I think whether MU completes in a high major conference is a debatable question. My guess is that if Buzz leaves it will be due more to the conference than it is to MU. MU playing in the old Big East, where you played Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburg, Uconn, Cincy and West Virginia was an easier sell to recruits vs games against teams in the current conference.

Which decade would you like to debate?  Which high major conference would you like to compare it to? The B12 is a high major conference yet since 2000 they collectively have only 6 more appearances than our conference.  (the difference between Depaul, Seton Hall, SJU and Providence sucking or not)  This is why I made all of those spreadsheets.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

For the 2010-11 academic tear, UT spent $133.7M.    Keep in mind they only have 19 varsity sports...and 5 jets. Second place, in terms of spending, went to Ohio State - they spent $11.5M less in the same year....for their 36 teams! The team that ranked 10th in the same year was Oklahoma - a school that spent almost $40M less than UT for their sports.

There really isnt a *need* to throw more into the football program. While they are getting a return on their annual investment, they arent getting a great return from a performance standpoint. The football program doesnt need more money...it needs better coaching and recruiting.

"They do everything they can to set themselves apart, that they are the very best, they are the elite," says Bill Byrne, who retired last week after 10 years as Texas A&M's athletics director. "I believe DeLoss (Dodds, the Longhorns' longtime AD) said 'we are the Joneses.' They act that way, and they spend that way."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-15/texas-athletics-spending-revenue/54960210/1

Over a year old, but still relevant.

Bingo.

We aren't just talking about a lot of money. We are talking about A LOT OF MONEY.

If/when Texas decides they want to upgrade their basketball program, it will be a very attractive job... probably more attractive than MU in a lot of ways.

[Spotcheck Billy]

but recruits to TX will know that Kansas is the school that wins the B-12 Bball championship every year, they'd always be 2nd fiddle to KS unlike Marquette in the Bid East


EDIT, saw my typo and thought it appropriate

[bilsu]

Which decade would you like to debate?  Which high major conference would you like to compare it to? The B12 is a high major conference yet since 2000 they collectively have only 6 more appearances than our conference.  (the difference between Depaul, Seton Hall, SJU and Providence sucking or not)  This is why I made all of those spreadsheets.

Perception and reality are two different things. While we play basketball, being in a non-BCS football conference makes the Big East a lesser conference in the entire college sports landscape. For example the University of Texas and Big 12 gets tremendous exposure on the football field while at the same time MU and the New Big East are getting no exposure.

[Eldon]

I think whether MU completes in a high major conference is a debatable question. My guess is that if Buzz leaves it will be due more to the conference than it is to MU. MU playing in the old Big East, where you played Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburg, Uconn, Cincy and West Virginia was an easier sell to recruits vs games against teams in the current conference.

That and the fact that our games are no longer on ESPN, or at least, not nearly as much.

[Aughnanure]

Here's more (ugh). Didn't want to start a new thread.

Top 10 Tuesday: Under-the-radar storylines
By Jason King | ESPN.com
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/87448/under-the-radar-storylines-for-2013-14

"2. Rick Barnes' future at Texas: The Longhorns went just 16-18 last season and missed the NCAA tournament for the first time in Barnes' 14-year tenure. Even worse, Texas has advanced to the second weekend of the tournament only once in the past seven years. With its top three scorers all departing the program (Myck Kabongo entered the NBA draft and Sheldon McClellan and Julien Lewis transferred), UT could struggle again this season. That could mean trouble for Barnes -- and, perhaps, a new opportunity for someone else. Should it come open, the Horns job would be one of the most coveted in the country. The pay is great, the recruits are plentiful and there aren't many cities in the country better than Austin. There's no reason Texas shouldn't be battling Kansas every year for the Big 12 title. I could see Marquette's Buzz Williams and Memphis' Josh Pastner being in the mix if the Longhorns make a change."

[Jay Bee]

Pastner's contract at Memphis is so good it's ridiculous. The masses just don't know how good it is.

If Buzz wants to live in Austin, then Texas might make sense. Otherwise I'm not sure it does.

[Aughnanure]

If Buzz is really going to be here for the long-term, than this is probably the year we find out.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sorry to pile on but:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9586240/ioannis-papapetrou-texas-longhorns-leading-returning-scorer-signs-deal-greek-pro-team

Papapetrou was the highest scoring player from last year's that was still around. I can't imagine Barnes being able to turn this around. He's lost about half his team to transfers. He is gone after this season. Then we will finally get to put the Buzz to Texas rumors behind us, for better or for worse.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In case anyone was interested, here is Texas' lead scorers from last season and what they are up to now

Myck Kabongo 14.6 ppg (entered NBA draft, went undrafted)
Sheldon McClellan 13.5 ppg (transferred to Miami)
Julian Lewis 11.2 ppg (transferred to Fresno State)
Ioannis Papapetrou 8.3 ppg (signed pro deal in Greece)
Javan Felix 6.8 ppg (still around)
Johnathan Holmes 6.4 ppg (still around)
Connor Lammert 4.5 ppg (still around)
Cameron Ridley 4.1 ppg (still around)
Demarcus Holland 3.6 ppg (still around)
Jaylen Bond 2.8 ppg (transferred to Temple)

So Barnes literally lost his top four scorers, and half of his top 10 scorers...and none of it was to graduation. Something is sour in that program. Combine that with the fact that Texas is only bringing in 1 4 star and 3 3 stars (a weak class by Texas standards). Barnes is looking at starting:

1. Felix
2. Yancy-Harris
3. Holmes
4. Lammert
5. Ridley

Not an intimidating lineup in the slightest. OkSt, Kansas, and Baylor will dominate the Big 12 this year. There is no way Barnes can compete. He will be done after this season.