Dear Lord

[frozena pizza]

"Creating one's own luck" is a cliche, and I didn't mean it literally, but your point is fair.

And if I agree that there was no luck in that game and that there is no luck in sports, I guess I'd have to postulate that there's no luck in the world, period.

I'm not ready to do that, but I guess you are.

When I was a kid one of my coaches used to say that luck is simply where hard work meets opportunity.  There are always moments in sports (and life) when things that are not in your control go your way.  When you have put yourself in a position to capitalize on those opportunities, that's what people think of as luck.

[frozena pizza]

Not to thread-jack, but ...

What would folks be saying about Buzz and the program if we lost this game?

Sorry. Never mind. Too ugly to think about.

Hate to bring up another sore subject in such a positive thread, but I do think about whether Vander would still be with the program if he hadn't hit that lay-up to win it.

[chapman]

Just a fun picture to add to the above.




After watching it again for the first time in months it seems even more insane and improbable.  
Anyone have a link to re-watch the tournament wins from this year?  Only saw the NCAA Vault, which has the '77 NC, '03 Pitt-UK-KU, and '11 UNC (why, I don't know).

[tower912]

I remember watching the first 39 minutes and being so frustrated because MU was running really good sets, getting open looks, getting offensive rebounds and absolutely nothing would fall.     One of those sequences where JWilson and Otule/Gardner would play volleyball with 3-4-5 point blank looks with nothing to show for it.   MU played well, just couldn't hit.   And then the dream sequence and all was forgiven.  


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/gameflash/2013/03/21/85557/index.html#boxscore

Look at this box score.   Look how bad MU shot.   MU killed Davidson on the boards, outshot them from the line.....could not make a thing.   Even with those last 3 3pt shots in a row, MU finished 4-15.

[We R Final Four]

By definition, you can't "create luck."  

Luck is defined as "Success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions."

There was nothing "brought about by chance" at the end of that game.  It was all through the players "own actions" that they won.

Again, I think you people are mixing up "unexpected" or "unlikely" with "luck."

So, the 94' foot shot that I chucked up that banked in to win the camp championship wasn't lucky?????  I am just a gamer I guess.

[Benny B]

"Creating one's own luck" is a cliche, and I didn't mean it literally, but your point is fair.

And if I agree that there was no luck in that game and that there is no luck in sports, I guess I'd have to postulate that there's no luck in the world, period.

I'm not ready to do that, but I guess you are.

If you're existential enough to commit to the ideology of "luck", then at least have the common sense to attribute "luck" correctly.  It was not luck that won the game for Marquette, Davidson was lucky to still have the lead with 6.7 seconds to go.

IOW, Marquette didn't get lucky, Davidson's luck ran out.

[jsglow]

Agreed. Best sporting event I have ever had the privilege of attending. Hugging strangers in blue and gold...unbelievable.

Ditto.  And for reasons I won't discuss on a message board, certainly the biggest emotional swing I've ever experienced. Wednesday that week was a 'Bottom 10 Day' in my life followed 24 hours later by a day that could crack the 'Top 10'.

It's funny.  Chick would say I'm a pessimist.  But that day standing in Rupp with 6 seconds left I KNEW Vander was going to score.

[jesmu84]

So, the 94' foot shot that I chucked up that banked in to win the camp championship wasn't lucky?????  I am just a gamer I guess.

Right. No difference at all between your example and a team shooting under their 3pt% making 3 threes at the end of the game to approach their mean percentage...

[warriorchick]

It's funny.  Chick would say I'm a pessimist.  But that day standing in Rupp with 6 seconds left I KNEW Vander was going to score.

I call you a pessimist because you have a tendency to say "Well, this game's over..."  when we are down by ten points with five minutes left.

With our team, it's never over until Buzz is shaking the other coach's hand.

[Benny B]

I call you a pessimist because you have a tendency to say "Well, this game's over..."  when we are down by ten points with five minutes left.

With our team, it's never over until Buzz is shaking the other coach's hand.

Geez, you guys.... get a room.

[real chili 83]

I call you a pessimist because you have a tendency to say "Well, this game's over..."  when we are down by ten points with five minutes left.

With our team, it's never over until Buzz is shaking the other coach's hand.

Maybe you and Legs should meet.

[bilsu]

The game gave me the feeling that I think Kansas fans often have. I almost always root against Kansas. This past year Iowa St had them beat twice and lost both games. I have seen other games where I thought Kansas was going to lose (Memphis losing in championship game), but somehow managed to win. Self is as good at pulling out games as Dean Smith was. Someone earlier commented about Gardner getting beat on defense, but in reality we might have lost the game, if he defended it better and the player pulled the ball out using up more of the clock. I am not giving Gardner props here, but sometimes bad plays help.

[We R Final Four]

Right. No difference at all between your example and a team shooting under their 3pt% making 3 threes at the end of the game to approach their mean percentage...

Mean percentage is based upon the season, not the game. When we are 0 for 4 on 3s--keep shooting cuz odds are we will make the next two---cuz that's closer to our mean.
Point is a heave from full court that goes in is lucky.

[GGGG]

"Creating one's own luck" is a cliche, and I didn't mean it literally, but your point is fair.

And if I agree that there was no luck in that game and that there is no luck in sports, I guess I'd have to postulate that there's no luck in the world, period.

I'm not ready to do that, but I guess you are.

I didn't say there is "no luck in sports."  For instance, if quarterback throws a pass to receiver A, but is tipped by a DL only to be caught by receiver B in the end zone...that is luck.  If Vander had missed his layup to win that game, but in trying to secure the rebound, the Davidson guy accidently tipped it in...that is luck.

Marquette won by hitting shots.  That isn't luck.  They executed the game of basketball better.

[Lennys Tap]

I didn't say there is "no luck in sports."  For instance, if quarterback throws a pass to receiver A, but is tipped by a DL only to be caught by receiver B in the end zone...that is luck.  If Vander had missed his layup to win that game, but in trying to secure the rebound, the Davidson guy accidently tipped it in...that is luck.

Marquette won by hitting shots.  That isn't luck.  They executed the game of basketball better.

Bingo.

[MUCam]

Bingo.

Bingo is luck.

[4everwarriors]

Andrew is luck

[Golden Avalanche]

What a circle jerk of irrelevance.

[wadesworld]

I remember watching the first 39 minutes and being so frustrated because MU was running really good sets, getting open looks, getting offensive rebounds and absolutely nothing would fall.     One of those sequences where JWilson and Otule/Gardner would play volleyball with 3-4-5 point blank looks with nothing to show for it.   MU played well, just couldn't hit.   And then the dream sequence and all was forgiven.  


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/gameflash/2013/03/21/85557/index.html#boxscore

Look at this box score.   Look how bad MU shot.   MU killed Davidson on the boards, outshot them from the line.....could not make a thing.   Even with those last 3 3pt shots in a row, MU finished 4-15.

That's exactly how I felt.  After coming down from the high I was on after the win, that's what I said to the guys I was with.  When we were hitting the 3s I still was just sitting in the stands thinking "Damn, why couldn't we have done this earlier?  Now the score just looks better than it would've otherwise."  Even when we got the ball back with 6.7 seconds left down 1 I still was standing there just accepting that we lost.  And I wasn't even mad about it.  I thought we played really well, we just could not hit a shot for whatever reason.  We didn't play bad, we just shot bad.

[wadesworld]

I wasn't at the 03 game but I guess the other satisfying reason was the group of Davidson fans on our side of the court about 3-4 sections down...behind their bench.  This group was wearing some sort of frat uniform and talking all kinds of trash, especially near the end of the game.  It was sooooo satisfying to have them shut up and sit down.

Great, great game.

Definitely saw those guys outside the arena immediately after the game, and at least half of them were literally crying.  The other half looked like they had just finished puking.  Because they had been so obnoxious all game (and I was behind Davidson's 2nd half basket, so I wasn't all that close to them), I really had to hold myself back from saying anything to them.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, we were crappy for about 39/40ths of the game.

Yes, we were lucky (and incredibly good) at the end.

Yes, I don't care what anybody wants to call it, because I call it awesome!

I still don't believe we won that game.

See, that wasn't so hard.  Exactly how I feel.  Thrilled with the win.  We played poorly most of the game, fortunate (lucky) to win it based on how we played most of the game. I call it awesome as well.  For others, apparently we were rop-a-doping for 38 minutes and it was all by design.  Hey, if that makes you sleep better at night, by all means they should go with it. 

What I enjoy about Buzz more than anything is his honesty. 

"We're lucky to still be standing" - Buzz Williams. 

[wadesworld]

See, that wasn't so hard.  Exactly how I feel.  Thrilled with the win.  We played poorly most of the game, fortunate (lucky) to win it based on how we played most of the game. I call it awesome as well.  For others, apparently we were rop-a-doping for 38 minutes and it was all by design.  Hey, if that makes you sleep better at night, by all means they should go with it. 

What I enjoy about Buzz more than anything is his honesty. 

"We're lucky to still be standing" - Buzz Williams. 

Not saying you're wrong or right for thinking we were lucky.  I just think Buzz is wrong.  I think we were unlucky to be trailing at the end of the game, as I thought we executed very well, we just didn't make a lot of shots that we typically had been making all year.  We finally hit some shots at the end, and they were very tough shots.  But in my opinion, they weren't lucky shots.  None of them bounced high off of the rim and fell through (like Vander's against Butler in the 2nd half), nobody on Davidson blew a defensive assignment (all of the shots were very well contested), etc.  Marquette just simply made plays/shots.

[GGGG]

"We're lucky to still be standing" - Buzz Williams. 

Buzz doesn't understand the definition of "luck" either.

[martyconlonontherun]

Right. No difference at all between your example and a team shooting under their 3pt% making 3 threes at the end of the game to approach their mean percentage...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

Hitting 3 3's in a row while highly contested by a bad 3 point shooting team is very lucky.

[MU82]

I didn't say there is "no luck in sports."  For instance, if quarterback throws a pass to receiver A, but is tipped by a DL only to be caught by receiver B in the end zone...that is luck.  If Vander had missed his layup to win that game, but in trying to secure the rebound, the Davidson guy accidently tipped it in...that is luck.

Marquette won by hitting shots.  That isn't luck.  They executed the game of basketball better.

So the Franco Harris play was luck ... unless one argues that him being in the right place at the right time was him being prepared and him making the shoestring catch was talent.

Anybody can argue that anything lucky requires skill, preparation, etc.

I still say we were lucky to win. And I still say there is no shame in being lucky.

But hey, we can disagree on this and it won't bother me a bit because I'm just lucky to be an American and have the freedom to post about all this silliness (much of my own making).