Buzz a better recruiter than Tom Crean...

[BubbaWilliams]

Check out this steller Crean recruit, Devan Dumes charged with attempted murder http://www.indystar.com/article/20130130/SPORTS0601/130130034/Former-Indiana-basketball-player-Devan-Dumes-charged-attempted-murder

Clearly, Devan was not a better person than he was a player.

[leever]

Or

Some people, maybe even you (I can't tell for sure), feel the need to attack him at every opportunity.  GOD FORBID that we just stop the anti-Crean posts from even starting, it's been almost 2000 days.  Give it a rest

Afterall, KO left in not a good way. Rick left in not a good way.  Etc, etc.....hypocrisy here remains on tilt.

Same stuff, different day.

If you know the Crean bashing will continue, why do you need to join every thread anyway?  It's not going to change anything.

Of course, neither will this post asking you to give it a rest.  Isn't it about time for some commentary on his son's birthday party?

Page 4 coming up soon.

[The Lens]

Same stuff, different day.

If you know the Crean bashing will continue, why do you need to join every thread anyway?  It's not going to change anything.

Of course, neither will this post asking you to give it a rest.  Isn't it about time for some commentary on his son's birthday party?

Page 4 coming up soon.

1) A lot of fans wanted Rick gone, it just turned out they didn't want him to leave in June
2) KO never, ever, ever gave the impression he was in it for the long haul.  We knew the deal with KO
3) TC sold a lot fans on how he was Mr. Marquette, ordered a media guide in 1977 etc. and then of course he used the same plays out of the same playbook at his IU presser (gave us doubters confirmation it was just 1 big act).  This plus having had recently signed a long term deal gave a good deal of fans he was in for the long haul.

TC was different than everyone else because he worked so hard to sell himself as different.  He brought 95% of this on himself.  Everywhere he goes he tries so hard to fit in.  If IU fired TC in 3 years and hired Buzz, I suspect a lot of fans would start cheering for IU (I would).  I think it's because Buzz never tried to sell himself as something he wasn't. 

[hairy worthen]

1) A lot of fans wanted Rick gone, it just turned out they didn't want him to leave in June
2) KO never, ever, ever gave the impression he was in it for the long haul.  We knew the deal with KO
3) TC sold a lot fans on how he was Mr. Marquette, ordered a media guide in 1977 etc. and then of course he used the same plays out of the same playbook at his IU presser (gave us doubters confirmation it was just 1 big act).  This plus having had recently signed a long term deal gave a good deal of fans he was in for the long haul.

TC was different than everyone else because he worked so hard to sell himself as different.  He brought 95% of this on himself.  Everywhere he goes he tries so hard to fit in.  If IU fired TC in 3 years and hired Buzz, I suspect a lot of fans would start cheering for IU (I would).  I think it's because Buzz never tried to sell himself as something he wasn't.  

I wouldn't go that far, but you make valid points.  

[The Equalizer]

3) TC sold a lot fans on how he was Mr. Marquette, ordered a media guide in 1977 etc. and then of course he used the same plays out of the same playbook at his IU presser (gave us doubters confirmation it was just 1 big act). 

Maybe you're too young to remember, but IU was right there with MU as one of the top teams of the era.  IU was Elite eight in 73 and 75, and won the championship outright in '76 (with an undefeated season). In 74 MU is in the final four, Elite Eight in 76, and won the championship in 77.

If you're a HS kid of that era and a huge basketball fan, how do you NOT follow both programs?   

Do you know kids 10, 12, 14 years old today and basketball fans who say their favorite teams include Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Louisvlle, Kentucky, etc?  Kids like the teams that are hot at the time.  You can't blame them--they are on TV all the time--in the news all the time.  Those are the teams they follow.

So why are you so convinced that it was somehow different back then? That a kid in the 70's couldn't possibly have liked both Marquette and Indiana, and if he says he did it confirms he's a phony?

[onepost]

I'm a relatively new fan (pretty much since my Senior year of high school when I knew I was going to MU - 2010/2011), so much of the TC animosity doesn't mean much to me, but can't we just let this crap go?? Why is it we ALWAYS have to bring up Crean?? He's gone, being a complete douchebag in Bloomington, let it go. If he hadn't left, Buzz wouldn't be our HC, and we probably wouldn't have just come off our THIRD straight second-weekend appearance in the Dance. I see him leaving as nothing but a great thing because would anyone here honestly rather have him over Buzz? I sure as hell know I wouldn't. I hit up the Scoop daily because I love that there are fanatics out there just like me, but it gets so damn tiring having to read about Tom Crean 4 times a week.  

[Golden Avalanche]

1) A lot of fans wanted Rick gone, it just turned out they didn't want him to leave in June
2) KO never, ever, ever gave the impression he was in it for the long haul.  We knew the deal with KO
3) TC sold a lot fans on how he was Mr. Marquette, ordered a media guide in 1977 etc. and then of course he used the same plays out of the same playbook at his IU presser (gave us doubters confirmation it was just 1 big act).  This plus having had recently signed a long term deal gave a good deal of fans he was in for the long haul.

TC was different than everyone else because he worked so hard to sell himself as different.  He brought 95% of this on himself.  Everywhere he goes he tries so hard to fit in.  If IU fired TC in 3 years and hired Buzz, I suspect a lot of fans would start cheering for IU (I would).  I think it's because Buzz never tried to sell himself as something he wasn't. 

You aren't naive enough to actually believe what you wrote, are you?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Same stuff, different day.

If you know the Crean bashing will continue, why do you need to join every thread anyway?  It's not going to change anything.

Of course, neither will this post asking you to give it a rest.  Isn't it about time for some commentary on his son's birthday party?

Page 4 coming up soon.

Yup, same stuff different day.....2000 days later and people still can't let go.  It's beyond weird.

I'm just thankful we've had good coaches at MU.  TC helped get us to the Final Four, into the Big East, delivered some great players and great memories.  Now we have Buzz doing much of the same. 

Makes you wonder why so many people keep bringing him up, why they keep comparing current coach to him, etc...it's like they're always trying to measure him up.  Weird....but you are right, same stuff different day.  I wonder if people can go a whole month without starting a thread about him once the season starts?

[ChicosBailBonds]

You aren't naive enough to actually believe what you wrote, are you?

It's amazing the correlation of how "genuine" and "sincere" and "honest" and "loyal" a coach is when they are at your school...until they leave or start losing.  Go on most message boards and it's the same thing....it's amazing how many genuine, sincere, honest, loyal men with whistles around their necks walk on water at the same time while they are at the school and winning.  Start losing, and suddenly out of nowhere Ben Howland becomes "prickly" even though he always was.  Start losing, and suddenly Buzz Williams country bumpkin schtick isn't quite as endearing.  Go to Final Four, TC greatest guy in the world.  Go to back to back NITs after that, not so swell anymore.  I'll give you my own personal experience with Mike Scioscia...one of the nicest, best people I have met bar none, regardless of profession.  For many Halos fans, he is now labeled as "too nice", not "firey" enough.  This wasn't the case a few years ago when they were winning division title after division title, a WS, etc.  Fans are fun.

[The Lens]

It's amazing the correlation of how "genuine" and "sincere" and "honest" and "loyal" a coach is when they are at your school...until they leave or start losing.  Go on most message boards and it's the same thing....it's amazing how many genuine, sincere, honest, loyal men with whistles around their necks walk on water at the same time while they are at the school and winning.  Start losing, and suddenly out of nowhere Ben Howland becomes "prickly" even though he always was.  Start losing, and suddenly Buzz Williams country bumpkin schtick isn't quite as endearing.  Go to Final Four, TC greatest guy in the world.  Go to back to back NITs after that, not so swell anymore.  I'll give you my own personal experience with Mike Scioscia...one of the nicest, best people I have met bar none, regardless of profession.  For many Halos fans, he is now labeled as "too nice", not "firey" enough.  This wasn't the case a few years ago when they were winning division title after division title, a WS, etc.  Fans are fun.

I think I am smart enough to separate my fanship with how I view human beings. I couldn't stand TC on March 29th, 2003 when I sitting in the HHH Metrodome and I can't stand him now.  And I liked Buzz Williams a ton when I was watching Jake Thomas hoist a failed 3 on the road at UWGB.

You aren't naive enough to actually believe what you wrote, are you?

I know Buzz has a schtick but that's who he is...he plays a game.  Calls himself dumb, etc...that's an act, I get it. 

TC has no schtick because he has no idea who he is, it changes nearly every day.    He can't even figure out who to pretend to be because he's so phony to begin with.  He's CMO always trying to sell you something. 

If you can't figure out that there's an appealing realness to Buzz, KO and Mike Deane, I don't know what to tell you.  You and I are just wired differently.

[4everwarriors]

Crean sucks.

[ChicosBailBonds]

3) TC sold a lot fans on how he was Mr. Marquette, ordered a media guide in 1977 etc. and then of course he used the same plays out of the same playbook at his IU presser (gave us doubters confirmation it was just 1 big act).  This plus having had recently signed a long term deal gave a good deal of fans he was in for the long haul.

He actually said in the MU press conference that he watched MU as a kid win the title and that it was one of his original memories of basketball.  At the IU press conferences he mentioned IU and MU as the first two national championship games he watched..they both happened in back to back years so this is hardly surprising. Unless he was clarevoyant and knew he was getting the IU job 9 years later, why would he mention watching an IU championship game at a MU press conference?

The guy attended a Bob Knight clinic in Bloomington at age 19, he had early memories of IU as a youth as well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think I am smart enough to separate my fanship with how I view human beings. I couldn't stand TC on March 29th, 2003 when I sitting in the HHH Metrodome and I can't stand him now.  And I liked Buzz Williams a ton when I was watching Jake Thomas hoist a failed 3 on the road at UWGB.

I know Buzz has a schtick but that's who he is...he plays a game.  Calls himself dumb, etc...that's an act, I get it. 

TC has no schtick because he has no idea who he is, it changes nearly every day.    He can't even figure out who to pretend to be because he's so phony to begin with.  He's CMO always trying to sell you something. 

If you can't figure out that there's an appealing realness to Buzz, KO and Mike Deane, I don't know what to tell you.  You and I are just wired differently.

Lens...people have a different appeal to different folks.  KO and some of the stuff I know he did, didn't appeal to me at all because I knew what he had done.  I couldn't pretend that baggage didn't exist.  I couldn't pretend that I wasn't watching what he was doing to his kid and his wife, etc, etc.  That didn't appeal to me...if you find that appealing, we are wired differently.

Mike and I got along great, though there were certainly some behaviors there that I wasn't not thrilled with.  Buzz is very appealing, and yes he has an act...I'm glad you get it, I certainly do but many people don't....they have no idea it's an act....I guess they aren't smart enough to figure it out.  As I've said time and time again, TC is a weird dude, I think a lot of it has to do with his dad leaving his family when he was young.  I certainly don't find him "appealing", though I also find that he doesn't do things that some of the others do that I find not appealing at all (i.e. cheating on your wife constantly in public, etc, etc, etc). 

To each their own...having a cocktail with MD or KO was fun.  Having an adult admiration for their behaviors and how they represented my school...not so much.  Appeal is in the eye of the beholder.

[4everwarriors]

Didn't take long to figure out Crean's act for some of us.

[Lennys Tap]

I think I am smart enough to separate my fanship with how I view human beings. I couldn't stand TC on March 29th, 2003 when I sitting in the HHH Metrodome and I can't stand him now.  And I liked Buzz Williams a ton when I was watching Jake Thomas hoist a failed 3 on the road at UWGB.

I know Buzz has a schtick but that's who he is...he plays a game.  Calls himself dumb, etc...that's an act, I get it. 

TC has no schtick because he has no idea who he is, it changes nearly every day.    He can't even figure out who to pretend to be because he's so phony to begin with.  He's CMO always trying to sell you something. 

If you can't figure out that there's an appealing realness to Buzz, KO and Mike Deane, I don't know what to tell you.  You and I are just wired differently.

Nailed it, Lens - a perfect analysis.

[Galway Eagle]

I'm a relatively new fan (pretty much since my Senior year of high school when I knew I was going to MU - 2010/2011), so much of the TC animosity doesn't mean much to me, but can't we just let this crap go?? Why is it we ALWAYS have to bring up Crean?? He's gone, being a complete douchebag in Bloomington, let it go. If he hadn't left, Buzz wouldn't be our HC, and we probably wouldn't have just come off our THIRD straight second-weekend appearance in the Dance. I see him leaving as nothing but a great thing because would anyone here honestly rather have him over Buzz? I sure as hell know I wouldn't. I hit up the Scoop daily because I love that there are fanatics out there just like me, but it gets so damn tiring having to read about Tom Crean 4 times a week.  

That seems to be the sentiment of everybody who attended marquette after my class.  Because in 08-09 we were hearing stories of what we could have been that year if Crean had stayed.  Now it's all Buzz through and through. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Didn't take long to figure out Crean's act for some of us.

No one is arguing that.  I just wonder one day when Diener, Wade, Novak, etc are as enlightened.   

[The Lens]

Lens...people have a different appeal to different folks.  KO and some of the stuff I know he did, didn't appeal to me at all because I knew what he had done.  I couldn't pretend that baggage didn't exist.  I couldn't pretend that I wasn't watching what he was doing to his kid and his wife, etc, etc.  That didn't appeal to me...if you find that appealing, we are wired differently.

My fondness of certain coaches should not be taken as a complete sign-off for all of their personal behaviors, much as I would suspect that your fondness for TC is not a sign off of all of his "idiosyncrasies". 

[ChicosBailBonds]

My fondness of certain coaches should not be taken as a complete sign-off for all of their personal behaviors, much as I would suspect that your fondness for TC is not a sign off of all of his "idiosyncrasies". 

I have no fondness for TC as a person.  Never have, made that clear for well over 2000 days....probably more like 3000+

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I also find that he doesn't do things that some of the others do that I find not appealing at all (i.e. cheating on your wife constantly in public, etc, etc, etc).  

So it's safe to say you bought Crean's explanation of his extraordinarily curious tweet referencing thinking about somebody a "whole lot." I sure as hell don't. Nobody talks that way to a high school boy unless you're a defensive coordinator for Penn State. Who was this recruit Crean couldn't stop thinking about?

EDIT: It seems to me his sudden discovery of religion happened shortly after this Twitter "gaffe."

[4everwarriors]

Rican, you mean this kinda stuff?

[ChicosBailBonds]

So it's safe to say you bought Crean's explanation of his extraordinarily curious tweet referencing thinking about somebody a "whole lot." I sure as hell don't. Nobody talks that way to a high school boy unless you're a defensive coordinator for Penn State. Who was this recruit Crean couldn't stop thinking about?

EDIT: It seems to me his sudden discovery of religion happened shortly after this Twitter "gaffe."

My guess is you wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt on anything PRN.  You were the one that insisted he was giving Isaiah's number out to players on the team now when it had been done like 6 times since Isaiah graduated.  You were the one that insisted he created the name Gold, when the evidence shows he didn't.  Etc etc.  As for his discovery of religion, no he's been pretty devout his whole life according to family and friends....unless you don't want to read those stories from the very first days he was hired at MU (long before Twitter was even invented).  But hey, what's stopping you from floating another one of your doozies.  If there was evidence of what you are talking about, it would be out.  That's quite a charge, like many you have leveled that have fallen flat.

And for the record, I don't like that he flouts is religion, it should be a private thing. Once in awhile, fine, but he does it too much in my opinion.

[Lennys Tap]

I have no fondness for TC as a person.  Never have, made that clear for well over 2000 days....probably more like 3000+

On one hand you say he's a douche. On the other hand you write thousands of post defending him as both a coach and a person. You even accuse those of us who agree that he's a douche of calling the players who liked him (Wade, Novak, Diener) stupid. Mixed signals, but when "He's a douche, but..." and the "but" is a defense of him the length of "War and Peace" it's hard to take the "he's a douche" part seriously.

[Golden Avalanche]

I know Buzz has a schtick but that's who he is...he plays a game.  Calls himself dumb, etc...that's an act, I get it. 

TC has no schtick because he has no idea who he is, it changes nearly every day.    He can't even figure out who to pretend to be because he's so phony to begin with.  He's CMO always trying to sell you something. 

If you can't figure out that there's an appealing realness to Buzz, KO and Mike Deane, I don't know what to tell you.  You and I are just wired differently.

A salesman is a salesman. To me, I don't care whether they sell the same thing every day or a different thing every tomorrow looking for the next best thing. In the end all they want is for you to buy their words.

I just find it funny that an adult can recognize the endgame is the same for both yet only consider one of the salesmen to be genuine. But the world is filled with all types so might as well have a beer and laugh.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

On one hand you say he's a douche. On the other hand you write thousands of post defending him as both a coach and a person. You even accuse those of us who agree that he's a douche of calling the players who liked him (Wade, Novak, Diener) stupid. Mixed signals, but when "He's a douche, but..." and the "but" is a defense of him the length of "War and Peace" it's hard to take the "he's a douche" part seriously.

You don't have to like someone as a person to appreciate what they did for our team. The fact is, without Crean there is no Dwayne Wade, there is no Final Four, there is no move to the Big East, and there is no Buzz. We would still be schmucking around in Conference USA or maybe the Atlantic 10 telling everyone how great we were in the seventies. Besides the one Sweet 16 in 94, there were not very many bright spots for us post Al. TC was the one who started us on our push back towards being a blue blood again. The least we can do is show some gratitude.