Buzz a better recruiter than Tom Crean...

[ChicosBailBonds]

On one hand you say he's a douche. On the other hand you write thousands of post defending him as both a coach and a person. You even accuse those of us who agree that he's a douche of calling the players who liked him (Wade, Novak, Diener) stupid. Mixed signals, but when "He's a douche, but..." and the "but" is a defense of him the length of "War and Peace" it's hard to take the "he's a douche" part seriously.

Nope, that is simply not true.  I have said for years he was a jerk to work for, a douche, etc.  If you can find posts where I've said he is a swell guy...where I SAID IT...please provide.  I have, to your point, said the guys that KNOW HIM BEST, the people that played for him seem to like him....not a bunch of grumpy old men on a message board that don't know him.  Take that for what it is worth, but that is how THOSE guys feel about him.

Please, show me where I have said what a swell guy TC is?  I'd love to see it.  I don't think he is the monster some of you make him out to be, but he certainly isn't an endearing person nor one I have ever said was.  Reading is your friend Lenny.

My "defense" of him is as a coach who put us back in the limelight, graduated players, brought us fantastic players, a Final Four, Big East, etc.  My "defense" of him as a person is not there, though I am happy to point out that when someone says how endearing a compete dirtbag like KO is and in the same breath wants to take shots at TC, I have to wonder how much they truly know about what KO did.  One was a jerk, one is a despicable husband, father, a-hole, and many other things that I will not mention here that happened.  If that is "defending" TC as a good person, so be it....I would call it pointing out the hypocrisy of KO vs TC....neither of which are wonderful guys, but one has a more fun attitude so he is cool while the other one is a two faced jerk but hasn't done nearly the crap to family, etc that the cool guy has.

I'm sure in the course of your long life you have liked someone your wife hasn't, or vice versa.  Or a colleague you thought highly of that other colleagues didn't.  Are those mixed signals?  Is it ok that I don't care for TC but at the same time point out that Wade, Novak, Diener, etc all publicly do?  I'd say you are stretching way out of your element on that charge of mixed signals.

[WarriorFan]

I used to think the only reason Crean got a job is because someone thought he could get them Michigan Football Tickets. 
Now that he's at IU I know for sure.
2012 Indiana Hoosiers Football Schedule
Final Record: 4-8, 2-6 (Big Ten)

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Nope, that is simply not true.  I have said for years he was a jerk to work for, a douche, etc.  If you can find posts where I've said he is a swell guy...where I SAID IT...please provide.  I have, to your point, said the guys that KNOW HIM BEST, the people that played for him seem to like him....not a bunch of grumpy old men on a message board that don't know him.  Take that for what it is worth, but that is how THOSE guys feel about him.

Please, show me where I have said what a swell guy TC is?  I'd love to see it.  I don't think he is the monster some of you make him out to be, but he certainly isn't an endearing person nor one I have ever said was.  Reading is your friend Lenny.

My "defense" of him is as a coach who put us back in the limelight, graduated players, brought us fantastic players, a Final Four, Big East, etc.  My "defense" of him as a person is not there, though I am happy to point out that when someone says how endearing a compete dirtbag like KO is and in the same breath wants to take shots at TC, I have to wonder how much they truly know about what KO did.  One was a jerk, one is a despicable husband, father, a-hole, and many other things that I will not mention here that happened.  If that is "defending" TC as a good person, so be it....I would call it pointing out the hypocrisy of KO vs TC....neither of which are wonderful guys, but one has a more fun attitude so he is cool while the other one is a two faced jerk but hasn't done nearly the crap to family, etc that the cool guy has.

I'm sure in the course of your long life you have liked someone your wife hasn't, or vice versa.  Or a colleague you thought highly of that other colleagues didn't.  Are those mixed signals?  Is it ok that I don't care for TC but at the same time point out that Wade, Novak, Diener, etc all publicly do?  I'd say you are stretching way out of your element on that charge of mixed signals.

I've not read all the pages of this thread (without BBall games being played I have less interest in spending hours on here each day)... but I agree with Chicos more than I disagree.

I am absolutely thrilled with how Tom Crean came to MU, performed here, and left.... what more could we have asked for?

I enjoy a good Crean embarrassment at IU, don't get me wrong... but what is there to be upset about? The man gave us Wade, a Final Four, Buzz, and then he left!

He was the perfect guy for our program: a self-promoter and solid recruiter early in his career.

But he is such a douche and I love that he's not our coach anymore.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

My guess is you wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt on anything PRN.  You were the one that insisted he was giving Isaiah's number out to players on the team now when it had been done like 6 times since Isaiah graduated.  You were the one that insisted he created the name Gold, when the evidence shows he didn't.  Etc etc.  As for his discovery of religion, no he's been pretty devout his whole life according to family and friends....unless you don't want to read those stories from the very first days he was hired at MU (long before Twitter was even invented).  But hey, what's stopping you from floating another one of your doozies.  If there was evidence of what you are talking about, it would be out.  That's quite a charge, like many you have leveled that have fallen flat.

And for the record, I don't like that he flouts is religion, it should be a private thing. Once in awhile, fine, but he does it too much in my opinion.

Gold was Crean's idea. And he has given out Thomas's number. What other "doozies?"

[Lennys Tap]

I'm sure in the course of your long life you have liked someone your wife hasn't, or vice versa.  Or a colleague you thought highly of that other colleagues didn't.  Are those mixed signals?  Is it ok that I don't care for TC but at the same time point out that Wade, Novak, Diener, etc all publicly do?  I'd say you are stretching way out of your element on that charge of mixed signals.

My wife and I so rarely dislike people that it really doesn't come up.

When you say "I don't care for someone, but people who know know him way better than me think he's great" what I hear is "This guy's probably a good guy once you get to know him". I think this is BS. There is not a coach anywhere that isn't publicly supported by some of his ex players. What does it prove? That a guy can ingratiate himself to young, unsophisticated people whom he can use down the road? Big deal, especially if the same guy is pushing around secretaries and waitresses along the way. The real questioned being begged, though, is why a guy who allegedly thinks TC is a douche is looking under sofas for anything (no matter how meaningless) to prove himself wrong.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

So it's safe to say you bought Crean's explanation of his extraordinarily curious tweet referencing thinking about somebody a "whole lot." I sure as hell don't. Nobody talks that way to a high school boy unless you're a defensive coordinator for Penn State. Who was this recruit Crean couldn't stop thinking about?

EDIT: It seems to me his sudden discovery of religion happened shortly after this Twitter "gaffe."

Do you think it was actually about a woman? I find it perfectly possible that Crean would address a male like this...

[Dr. Blackheart]

Let me play Henry Kissinger and find common ground and then we can settle the differences one by one:

Both sides think Crean is a douche, a used car salesman, is incredibly self-serving, left the wrong way, had success at MU, graduated his players, stayed out of more NCAA trouble than he has at IU, helped take the program to the next level, some of his MU players loved him and others hated him, like Buzz he had a lot of transfers, drank Diet Pepsi at MU and Diet Coke at IU only because they were sponsors not for preference, not too many liked working with or for him, Dick Strong and Bill Cords are friends, he becomes a turtle in close game situations, has a bad haircut to go with too long a tie, is incredibly insecure in many ways ranging from camp awards to name dropping to handshake fights, and once got a ticket by Ricky's for driving the wrong way.  

We can move on from these arguments.

Points of contention:  Father of The Gold, only reason MU got into the Big East, he made DWade and not the other way around, George Thompson's number wasn't retired just his jersey, is religious, committed three minor recruiting violations while IU was on major probation, won the first Big Ten conference title for IU in 20 years, the team he left at MU was a Final Four team only because of the players/recruits who left Buzz after Crean left (except the one who followed him to IU and then left there), his father-in-law had a full time job at MU, and Joani has good interior design tastes.

Did I miss anything?  Maybe this will help keep the Crean threads down to 50 a month.

[Hards Alumni]

Kyle Neddenriep ‏@KyleNeddenriep 14m

Confirmed James Blackmon Jr. has opened up recruitment from Indiana.

[Jay Bee]

Kyle Neddenriep ‏@KyleNeddenriep 14m

Confirmed James Blackmon Jr. has opened up recruitment from Indiana.

OH MY GOSH.

WOW.

Kid is awesome.

[Lennys Tap]

Let me play Henry Kissinger and find common ground and then we can settle the differences one by one:

Both sides think Crean is a douche, a used car salesman, is incredibly self-serving, left the wrong way, had success at MU, graduated his players, stayed out of more NCAA trouble than he has at IU, helped take the program to the next level, some of his MU players loved him and others hated him, like Buzz he had a lot of transfers, drank Diet Pepsi at MU and Diet Coke at IU only because they were sponsors not for preference, not too many liked working with or for him, Dick Strong and Bill Cords are friends, he becomes a turtle in close game situations, has a bad haircut to go with too long a tie, is incredibly insecure in many ways ranging from camp awards to name dropping to handshake fights, and once got a ticket by Ricky's for driving the wrong way.  

We can move on from these arguments.

Points of contention:  Father of The Gold, only reason MU got into the Big East, he made DWade and not the other way around, George Thompson's number wasn't retired just his jersey, is religious, committed three minor recruiting violations while IU was on major probation, won the first Big Ten conference title for IU in 20 years, the team he left at MU was a Final Four team only because of the players/recruits who left Buzz after Crean left (except the one who followed him to IU and then left there), his father-in-law had a full time job at MU, and Joani has good interior design tastes.

Did I miss anything?  Maybe this will help keep the Crean threads down to 50 a month.

Post of the year.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Let me play Henry Kissinger and find common ground and then we can settle the differences one by one:

Both sides think Crean is a douche, a used car salesman, is incredibly self-serving, left the wrong way, had success at MU, graduated his players, stayed out of more NCAA trouble than he has at IU, helped take the program to the next level, some of his MU players loved him and others hated him, like Buzz he had a lot of transfers, drank Diet Pepsi at MU and Diet Coke at IU only because they were sponsors not for preference, not too many liked working with or for him, Dick Strong and Bill Cords are friends, he becomes a turtle in close game situations, has a bad haircut to go with too long a tie, is incredibly insecure in many ways ranging from camp awards to name dropping to handshake fights, and once got a ticket by Ricky's for driving the wrong way.  

We can move on from these arguments.

Points of contention:  Father of The Gold, only reason MU got into the Big East, he made DWade and not the other way around, George Thompson's number wasn't retired just his jersey, is religious, committed three minor recruiting violations while IU was on major probation, won the first Big Ten conference title for IU in 20 years, the team he left at MU was a Final Four team only because of the players/recruits who left Buzz after Crean left (except the one who followed him to IU and then left there), his father-in-law had a full time job at MU, and Joani has good interior design tastes.

Did I miss anything?  Maybe this will help keep the Crean threads down to 50 a month.

Barometric chamber?

[leever]

Barometric chamber?

Think that would be "hyperbaric".

"Barometric" would be like barometric pressure, which is something that TC succumbs to in tight games.

Or you may have meant the "hyperbolic" chamber that TC sleeps in so he can speak in hyperbole.

[Hards Alumni]

Think that would be "hyperbaric".

"Barometric" would be like barometric pressure, which is something that TC succumbs to in tight games.

Or you may have meant the "hyperbolic" chamber that TC sleeps in so he can speak in hyperbole.

This made my day.

[Jay Bee]

Crean's buyout if IU fires him just dropped from $16MM to $14MM.

Wonder what Buzz's is. (Not that that issue should ever come up.)

[brewcity77]

Gold was Crean's idea. And he has given out Thomas's number. What other "doozies?"

Something tells me you know next to nothing about where TC stood in that whole nickname situation.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Something tells me you know next to nothing about where TC stood in that whole nickname situation.

Something tells me you're 100% wrong.

[swoopem]

Buzz is ranked the 5th best recruiter in this poll http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/23147374/candid-coaches-all-things-equal-who-is-basketballs-top-recruiter

[Lennys Tap]

Buzz is ranked the 5th best recruiter in this poll http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/23147374/candid-coaches-all-things-equal-who-is-basketballs-top-recruiter

Key to this poll and what makes it more meaningful than non adjusted rankings:"All resources being equal". Of course Roy Williams can out recruit Buzz given the vastly uneven playing field. Hell, even a TC can. All things even close to equal, no way

[Jay Bee]

I don't mean this in the wrong way, but last November when this AP report and various others came out, what did you (anyone reading this) take this to mean (especially the bolded part)?

Crean's base salary will go from approximately $2.52 million per year to $3.16 million. The deal also includes performance bonuses based on Academic Progress Rate scores, Graduation Success Rate scores and the team's GPA. If all standards are met, Crean's salary could increase by as much as $55,000 per year.

The buyout, Glass said, would cost $8 million over the next three years, then drops to $1 million in Year 4 and drops again to $500,000 over the final four years of the deal. School officials said additional contract details will be announce when the deal is formally signed.

[reinko]

Let me play Henry Kissinger and find common ground and then we can settle the differences one by one:

Both sides think Crean is a douche, a used car salesman, is incredibly self-serving, left the wrong way, had success at MU, graduated his players, stayed out of more NCAA trouble than he has at IU, helped take the program to the next level, some of his MU players loved him and others hated him, like Buzz he had a lot of transfers, drank Diet Pepsi at MU and Diet Coke at IU only because they were sponsors not for preference, not too many liked working with or for him, Dick Strong and Bill Cords are friends, he becomes a turtle in close game situations, has a bad haircut to go with too long a tie, is incredibly insecure in many ways ranging from camp awards to name dropping to handshake fights, and once got a ticket by Ricky's for driving the wrong way.  

We can move on from these arguments.

Points of contention:  Father of The Gold, only reason MU got into the Big East, he made DWade and not the other way around, George Thompson's number wasn't retired just his jersey, is religious, committed three minor recruiting violations while IU was on major probation, won the first Big Ten conference title for IU in 20 years, the team he left at MU was a Final Four team only because of the players/recruits who left Buzz after Crean left (except the one who followed him to IU and then left there), his father-in-law had a full time job at MU, and Joani has good interior design tastes.

Did I miss anything?  Maybe this will help keep the Crean threads down to 50 a month.

Don't forget Crean gave his own kids trophies at his bball clinic, his rudeness to waiters, and his mystery donation to MU Soccer.   Think that covers it.

[swoopem]

If we really want to cover all the bases then we have to include ATVs and tae kwon doe

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Barometric chamber?

The Riley Crean Memorial Best in Camp Award.

[mu-rara]

The Riley Crean Memorial Best in Camp Award.

My dad was my baseball coach as a kid (10-16 years old).  I needed to be way better (and I wasn't) to make an all star team (voted on by coaches in the division). 

If Crean were an honorable guy, he would have told the people making the decision to back off of Riley.

Over Under on Riley as a walk on at IU?

[🏀]

My dad was my baseball coach as a kid (10-16 years old).  I needed to be way better (and I wasn't) to make an all star team (voted on by coaches in the division). 

If Crean were an honorable guy, he would have told the people making the decision to back off of Riley.

Over Under on Riley as a walk on at IU?

[4everwarriors]

My dad was my baseball coach as a kid (10-16 years old).  I needed to be way better (and I wasn't) to make an all star team (voted on by coaches in the division). 

If Crean were an honorable guy, he would have told the people making the decision to back off of Riley.

Over Under on Riley as a walk on at IU?

Nah, Coach Clover will front him a schollie.