AJerseyGuy: Ackerman leading way for “new ” Big East

[brewcity77]

If Dayton were in Virginia or Western Pennsylvania or Upstate New York they'd be in. But they're in Ohio less than one hour away from another member.

FIFY

The issue is adding a Midwest vs East Coast team (that doesn't scare Georgetown).

[Aughnanure]

FIFY

The issue is adding a Midwest vs East Coast team (that doesn't scare Georgetown).

Don't think Georgetown is scared of VCU. They have zero presence here.

[tower912]

It appears that the theme for the BEast 2.0 presidents are private schools with similar mission statements and similar commitments to top quality basketball.  This eliminates VCU, as good as they are.   Richmond, SLU, and Dayton seem to fit those criteria and are geographically viable.    I will say again that I expect no expansion for 5 years.  IMO,  whichever 2 of the above 3 have raised the profile of their program the most will probably be invited.

However, if Duquesne, Detroit Mercy, or a couple of other A-10 schools were to take off instead, they could be in the mix, too. 

[Pakuni]

They couldn't be any worse than Seton Hall or DePaul have been

I'm going to guess the people at FS1 wouldn't trade either for Dayton. If they would, there's a pretty good chance Dayton would be in the league instead of Creighton.

[brewcity77]

Don't think Georgetown is scared of VCU. They have zero presence here.

And that's how Georgetown wants to keep it.

[Aughnanure]

It appears that the theme for the BEast 2.0 presidents are private schools with similar mission statements and similar commitments to top quality basketball.  This eliminates VCU, as good as they are.   Richmond, SLU, and Dayton seem to fit those criteria and are geographically viable.    I will say again that I expect no expansion for 5 years.  IMO,  whichever 2 of the above 3 have raised the profile of their program the most will probably be invited.

However, if Duquesne, Detroit Mercy, or a couple of other A-10 schools were to take off instead, they could be in the mix, too. 

Really a shame Holy Cross gave up on athletics years ago. Boston U really isn't a possibility, though they at least have fans (for hockey).

I wouldn't sleep on Drake emerging after the power vacuum caused by Creighton's departure takes effect.

[Aughnanure]

FIFY

The issue is adding a Midwest vs East Coast team (that doesn't scare Georgetown).

I don't buy that the team needs to be on the east coast. Gonzaga and SLU would be added in a minute if they could get the Zags.

I still don't get the VCU fear. Georgetown isn't worried about the #3-5 most popular public school in Virginia (esp one 3 hours south). Now George Mason is another matter. Would we have wanted UWM after/during their run?

[Aughnanure]

We're not talking about splitting the atom and landing a man on Mars. It's building a damn website. Something most teenagers could do in a few hours.

False.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm assuming you're saying SLU is better academically.Where does this view come from that VCU is comparable to Memphis and Louisville? Seriously, WHERE?

Yes, I agree SLU is better academically. And I was comparing VCU to Louisville/Memphis in academics only. Lousiville is ranked 10 spots higher than in US News and World Report and Memphis is lower. My point was that we wouldn't let their academics stop us from adding them. (And I realize that they will not drop football, just making a point)

Both those sound pretty marginal to me. SLU had to compete against us, DePaul, Louisville, Cincy, and Memphis in the CUSA. So that's not all that surprising. SLU is probably a tournament team. They didn't lose much from last year when they won the A10 over VCU.

I think a tournament once every eleven years is a helluva lot worse than a tournament once every three years. And even if their run to the final four was their only time past the first weekend, its still better than SLU who has NEVER been past the first weekend. They have had TWO tournament wins in the past 61 years. VCU had more in one tournament.

SLU lost their starting PG, starting C, and their backup center (37% of their offense). You're right, that's not too bad. But they replaced them with nothing. One very low 3 star and two 2 stars. I think they take a step down. But you are right, I think they will be in the tournament. VCU lost two starters and the three bottom players on their bench (30% of their offense). They replace them with a 4 star, a high 3 star, a low 3 star, a 2 star, and a talented transfer. They will be better next season

Who the current coach is is the dumbest reason to pick one school over another. So what happens when he leaves? And he WILL leave. That's fine. Think what you want, but the president's will want SLU first, their Jesuit tradition, nearly $1 billion endowment, and market.

I disagree. Like it or not, we got into the Big East largely because of Tom Crean. Conferences put a lot of stock in strong coaching. They have the ability to turn mid majors into regular contenders.

I also don't think Smart is going anywhere anytime soon. If he was the type of coach to bail, he would have left after the Final Four run when his stock was sky high. He didn't. Then when a blue blood came knocking this year, he could have bailed and no one would have been surprised. He didn't. In fact, he extended his contract. What job is coming open soon that is better than UCLA? I think he only leaves for Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, Duke, or Indiana. And none of those coaches are going anywhere in the next couple of years. (Unless cheating finally catches up with Cal...we can only hope)

Market, absolutely matters. Endowment, helps but not as much as you would think. Jesuit tradition? Doesn't mean squat in this decision. We are no better than the football schools. This decision will be made for the $$$$. And I think a strong basketball program in a so so market like VCU is more profitable than a weak basketball program in a strong market like SLU.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

With the new "super division" looming, there is zero chance that ACC members ND or Louisville drop football.  Perhaps UConn or Memphis would down the line, but only as a last resort and that will be years in the future.

I wasn't suggesting that they would. I just needed institutions that were academically similar to VCU in order to make a point.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If Dayton were in Kentucky or Western Pennsylvania or Michigan they'd be in. But they're in Ohio less than one hour away from another member.

+1

Here in lies my main problem with Dayton. I know we will have to let in some sub par basketball programs (Depaul...Seton Hall...maybe SLU in the future) but they need to at least bring in a fresh large market. Dayton sits in middle of nowhere Ohio...whose media market is already taken care of by Xavier. The only thing they would bring us is a little rivalry.

When I said I would take Davidson over Dayton, I meant it. Not because Davidson is better than Dayton at basketball, but because they at least bring in a new tv market.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It appears that the theme for the BEast 2.0 presidents are private schools with similar mission statements and similar commitments to top quality basketball.  This eliminates VCU, as good as they are.   Richmond, SLU, and Dayton seem to fit those criteria and are geographically viable.    I will say again that I expect no expansion for 5 years.  IMO,  whichever 2 of the above 3 have raised the profile of their program the most will probably be invited.

However, if Duquesne, Detroit Mercy, or a couple of other A-10 schools were to take off instead, they could be in the mix, too. 

I disagree. Our theme is top quality basketball, and top quality basketball only. We are no better than the football schools. We care about $$$$ above all us. Excluding public schools with quality basketball programs would be a mistake. We all know that if UCONN suddenly dropped football, we would welcome them with open arms.

We have gotten caught up in the private schools only because when we formed the league, the 10 most quality programs happened to all be private. That and the fact that we got too used to ESPN calling us the Catholic 7

[Eldon]

+1

Here in lies my main problem with Dayton. I know we will have to let in some sub par basketball programs (Depaul...Seton Hall...maybe SLU in the future) but they need to at least bring in a fresh large market. Dayton sits in middle of nowhere Ohio...whose media market is already taken care of by Xavier. The only thing they would bring us is a little rivalry.

When I said I would take Davidson over Dayton, I meant it. Not because Davidson is better than Dayton at basketball, but because they at least bring in a new tv market.

New TV market AND new recruiting grounds

[GGGG]

+1

Here in lies my main problem with Dayton. I know we will have to let in some sub par basketball programs (Depaul...Seton Hall...maybe SLU in the future) but they need to at least bring in a fresh large market. Dayton sits in middle of nowhere Ohio...whose media market is already taken care of by Xavier. The only thing they would bring us is a little rivalry.

When I said I would take Davidson over Dayton, I meant it. Not because Davidson is better than Dayton at basketball, but because they at least bring in a new tv market.

Dayton is a different TV market than Cincinnati.  And Davidson doesn't bring in anything because they are a dinky school with very little interest from the general public.  That would be like inviting Cardinal Stritch to get the Milwaukee market.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Dayton is a different TV market than Cincinnati.  And Davidson doesn't bring in anything because they are a dinky school with very little interest from the general public.  That would be like inviting Cardinal Stritch to get the Milwaukee market.

What media market are they then? Columbus? Indianapolis? Their own Dayton market? Cause none of those are worth adding. And I would argue that having Xavier in the Cincinnati and Butler in Indianapolis more than cover anything that Dayton could try and bring.

[GGGG]

What media market are they then? Columbus? Indianapolis? Their own Dayton market? Cause none of those are worth adding. And I would argue that having Xavier in the Cincinnati and Butler in Indianapolis more than cover anything that Dayton could try and bring.

They are in their own media market.  Dayton isn't a suburb of Cincinnati.  It's has it's own metro area and its own television stations.

I'm not disagreeing with you that it is not significant, but it is much more significant than Davidson.

[Galway Eagle]

They are in their own media market.  Dayton isn't a suburb of Cincinnati.  It's has it's own metro area and its own television stations.

I'm not disagreeing with you that it is not significant, but it is much more significant than Davidson.

You could make a decent argument that Davidson is a part of the Charlotte market which is considerably bigger than Dayton. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

What media market are they then? Columbus? Indianapolis? Their own Dayton market? Cause none of those are worth adding. And I would argue that having Xavier in the Cincinnati and Butler in Indianapolis more than cover anything that Dayton could try and bring.

Dayton is its own DMA
Cincinnati its own DMA
Columbus its own DMA
Lima its own DMA
Youngstown..same
Cleveland...same
Toledo...same

Those are the 7 television markets in Ohio

Then you have a few that spill into Ohio, like Ft. Wayne, Wheeling WV, Charleston/Huntington WV, and Parkersburg

[GGGG]

You could make a decent argument that Davidson is a part of the Charlotte market which is considerably bigger than Dayton. 

And you could make a decent argument that Loyola is part of the Chicago market...that doesn't mean people will watch them.

[Galway Eagle]

Dayton is its own DMA
Cincinnati its own DMA
Columbus its own DMA
Lima its own DMA
Youngstown..same
Cleveland...same
Toledo...same

Those are the 7 television markets in Ohio

Then you have a few that spill into Ohio, like Ft. Wayne, Wheeling WV, Charleston/Huntington WV, and Parkersburg

No Akron?

[Galway Eagle]

And you could make a decent argument that Loyola is part of the Chicago market...that doesn't mean people will watch them.

Loyola is more a part of Chicago than Northwestern (Rogers Park/Edgewater = Chicago while Evanston = not Chicago).  But if Davidson were pulled to a major conference people would probably watch also likely the same reason Loyola isn't watched in Chicago compared to Depaul and Northwestern.  

[GGGG]

Loyola is more a part of Chicago than Northwestern (Rogers Park/Edgewater = Chicago while Evanston = not Chicago).  But if Davidson were pulled to a major conference people would probably watch also likely the same reason Loyola isn't watched in Chicago compared to Depaul and Northwestern.  

I don't think that's generally how it works.  Just because you join a major conference doesn't mean that all of the sudden you get more people watching you.  Otherwise the NBE would invite Detroit and Boston U.  Put it this way, if DePaul dropped all athletics, the NBE wouldn't add Loyola as a replacement.

Davidson just doesn't have a significant fan base.

[Galway Eagle]

I don't think that's generally how it works.  Just because you join a major conference doesn't mean that all of the sudden you get more people watching you.  Otherwise the NBE would invite Detroit and Boston U.  Put it this way, if DePaul dropped all athletics, the NBE wouldn't add Loyola as a replacement.

Davidson just doesn't have a significant fan base.

Oh I agree about the Depaul Loyola thing.  Unless Loyola suddenly got their act together in their new conference which would be nice to add another Jesuit school and school with a national championship in it's history.  I don't see Boston U getting the invite though I could see Detroit as we lack a Michigan presence.  But look at MU during the crappy noncon games we barely have a student section and Marquette bars like the schoolyard are practically empty now if every game was like that of course people would barely watch or attend (Davidson now) but if they had powerhouse teams coming in testing them every night then I would expect the support to follow.  

[GGGG]

I just think you are mistaken that you can "create fandom" by joining a conference and having that fandom translate into viewers.  Otherwise why would the NBE take Creighton instead of Detroit? 

[Galway Eagle]

I just think you are mistaken that you can "create fandom" by joining a conference and having that fandom translate into viewers.  Otherwise why would the NBE take Creighton instead of Detroit? 

Because Creighton has success that significantly adds to our resume (18 > 6), already has fans so there's no waiting period or gamble, its in a city people will go to and not get shot, had an inside man to help get them into the league.  You pick