MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Aughnanure on July 30, 2013, 11:51:29 PM
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Ackerman leading way for “new ” Big East
http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=7251
Officially, it was football media day for the conference that was once the Big East. Now it is called the American Athletic Conference and the 10 coaches who met on Tuesday morning in Newport will pick up the banner of a new season.
But Big East football died last winter in a twisting series of events which most people thought was a long time coming and inevitable.
Big East basketball, once the gold standard for college basketball conferences, is alive and well, if you listen to new Big East commissioner Val Ackerman, ready for a new challenge in the conference’s 35th season, the Big East is ready for prime time–again.
Football? Forgetaboutit. Someone else’s passion, someone else’s problem.
ESPN? Well, maybe as a secondary outlet, but the new Fox Sports One cable channel which will launch next month will use this group of 10 primary basketball playing schools as its cornerstone.
Ackerman, with a history strongly linked to basketball at all levels-and as a Jersey girl as well–will provide the leadership and the direction.
Less than a month on the job after an agonizingly slow selection process, Ackerman is trying to put together a staff and organize a league of 10 schools (for the forseeable future?).
Ackerman’s credentials for the job appear to be impeccable, dating back to high school at New Jersey’s Hopewell Valley High School. She went from there to the University of Virginia here she was a 4 year starter, a 3-time captain, as well as a 2-time Academic All American.
After a brief playing career, which included one year in France, Ackerman dove into the administrative end. She helped start the WNBA, was the first female President of USA basketball, including running the show when the American men and women won gold medals at the Beijing Olympics in 2008. She is coming off a job as a consultant to the NCAA on women’s basketball.
At all levels–at any level-Ackerman knows the game. She also knows the challenges that starting a league from scratch–even if the components are 10 solid basketball pedigree schools from the old Big East and the Atlantic 10 Conference.
“It’s been very hectic to say the least,” said Ackerman in a phone interview on Tuesday as she continued the business of putting together a league office as well as a league.
Eventually the league office will be in New York City. But for now, Ackerman’s office is her cell phone, where she is setting up everything from schedules to budgets.
“There are some similarities between the WNBA and this,” said Ackerman with a laugh. “But with the WNBA, we were just an operating division of the NBA. We didn’t have to worry about setting up a pay roll system. Clearly we’re on the ground floor with a clean canvas and it’s very exciting.”
After several weeks of conference calls, Ackerman finally had a face to face with her 10 new athletic directors at Newport, Rhode Island last week, which was much more than a meet and greet gathering.
Part of the discussion was how to meld the tradition of the Big East with the issues of 2013 and 2014 which didn’t exist in 1979 when the Big East was founded by Dave Gavitt.
“Part of the heritage you want to keep alive,” said Ackerman. “But we have to find a way of melding the heritage with innovation. Our goal is create as bright a halo over the league as possible.”
For a conference which has been battered into submission and non existence in football because of defections and other factors and then endured a very public divorce among the basketball and football members, any kind of halo would be welcome.
Ackerman knows there might be some more hurdles to clear as the league moves into its new form as a 10 school basketball league which has mixture of old and new, east and Midwest with members of the Catholic 7:Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, DePaul and St. John’s melding with Xavier, Creighton and Butler.
Ackerman concedes the 10 school format, which allows a balanced double round robin 18 game conference schedule is the ideal set up–at this time.
“It is ideal for a lot of reasons,” said Ackerman, “but the Presidents have said they would like to expand at some time and we will have to examine that. But not at this time. For now, it’s the perfect set up for us.”
Ackerman says she has other ideas to promote the league–which will have Fox Sports One as its primary television outlet during the regular season and in the Big East Tournament which will remain in New York City’s Madison Square Garden.
Basing the league office in New York, allows the Big East more access to the power brokers and as she pointed out, makes the Big East the closest conference in Europe in geographical terms. Without being specific, Ackerman left open the door of a European venue as a site for Big East teams on a promotional basis. “In New York, we’re swimming with bigger fish,” said Ackerman. “There are some innovative things we can do within the NCAA rules.
Those are bigger picture items.
For now, Ackerman just wants the engine to start and everything to run smoothly. Fox is clearly a major factor in this plan.” Fox is about fun, but they see a toughness in us and there is toughness about Big East basketball which can be promoted,” said Ackerman . “We know we cant replace a Georgetown vs. Syracuse,” she said. “But we can create a new magic, with new traditions, with a little bit of the old and a little bit of the new.”
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Great article. Thanks for passing it on.
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The important thing is the Ackerman is also from Jersey. ::)
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She's doing a bang-up job with the website
http://www.bigeast.org/
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She confirms that expansion is going to happen. It's just a matter of when.
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She confirms that expansion is going to happen. It's just a matter of when.
...and who, and how many.
Hopefully it doesn't go past 12.
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...and who, and how many.
Hopefully it doesn't go past 12.
I wouldn't doubt that they already know what they are going to do.
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I wouldn't doubt that they already know what they are going to do.
The questions are when and who.
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SLU and ???
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SLU and ???
Probably Dayton. >:(
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She's doing a bang-up job with the website
http://www.bigeast.org/
A complete embarrassment.
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A complete embarrassment.
Who looks at conference websites in July? Only time I ever looked at the old BE site was around the time of the BET. As Ackerman rounds out the staff, the website and other administrative stuff will happen.
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Goooooo Dayton Flyers! D-A-Y-Teeeee-O-N! Dayton Flyers! Go UD!
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Goooooo Dayton Flyers! D-A-Y-Teeeee-O-N! Dayton Flyers! Go UD!
How cute.
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Who looks at conference websites in July? Only time I ever looked at the old BE site was around the time of the BET. As Ackerman rounds out the staff, the website and other administrative stuff will happen.
I know the Scoop guys are not that busy...maybe they can get things rolling. ::)
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Goooooo Dayton Flyers! D-A-Y-Teeeee-O-N! Dayton Flyers! Go UD!
BTW, I think it's cute that UDPride posters call Marquette posters "insecure" yet they don't allow new members to their group.
And no one really "hates" Dayton. We just like picking on you.
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Who looks at conference websites in July? Only time I ever looked at the old BE site was around the time of the BET. As Ackerman rounds out the staff, the website and other administrative stuff will happen.
This is a twitter debate I got into. It matters now because we are new and anyone who is Internet savvy is going to be turned off to the brand. Besides the electronic media is really not that hard to develop.
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This is a twitter debate I got into. It matters now because we are new and anyone who is Internet savvy is going to be turned off to the brand. Besides the electronic media is really not that hard to develop.
But, need to do it right the first time. So, a little lag time will not hurt during the dog days of summer while this new venture solidifies the details of its existence and future.
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But, need to do it right the first time. So, a little lag time will not hurt during the dog days of summer while this new venture solidifies the details of its existence and future.
They have already failed to do it right the first time. This really isn't hard. You could hire a decent web design company and have something up in couple months.
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She's doing a bang-up job with the website
http://www.bigeast.org/
Reminds me of a certain poster for Marquette in 2003-04 i believe. I think Titan had a picture of it on another thread.
Cream was in the middle of that one..
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But, need to do it right the first time. So, a little lag time will not hurt during the dog days of summer while this new venture solidifies the details of its existence and future.
We're not talking about splitting the atom and landing a man on Mars. It's building a damn website. Something most teenagers could do in a few hours.
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We're not talking about splitting the atom and landing a man on Mars. It's building a damn website. Something most teenagers could do in a few hours.
Sure, but.........
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They have already failed to do it right the first time. This really isn't hard. You could hire a decent web design company and have something up in couple months.
There was no first time yet. The site is simply a shell currently. Seriously doubt a slow roll-out of the website, etc. will have any bearing on the future of the BE.
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A complete embarrassment.
Maybe they're making sure the correct content is published on the site. It would be equally as crappy if they threw something together really fast for the sake of putting it up. Rather what they currently have there now than a website full of misinformation and bugs.
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SLU and ???
VCU and Gonzaga. Unless the Zags say no, then it is SLU.
And Dayton even thinking they have a chance of being in the BEast anytime soon is...cute. They bring us nothing other than a lukewarm rivalry with Xavier. I'd go Wichita State, Davidson, or Richmond before I'd even look at Dayton.
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VCU and Gonzaga. Unless the Zags say no, then it is SLU.
And Dayton even thinking they have a chance of being in the BEast anytime soon is...cute. They bring us nothing other than a lukewarm rivalry with Xavier. I'd go Wichita State, Davidson, or Richmond before I'd even look at Dayton.
Sorry but no. SLU is head and shoulders above VCU. You may not like it, but there is no way VCU gets in and SLU is left out. Better school, better facilities, better financials, better market, better arena, better fit, better overall athletic profile (esp soccer), marginally lesser basketball program...emphasis on "marginally".
Only way they're not involved at 12 is if Notre Dame comes crawling back for some unknown reason with Gonzaga.
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We're not talking about splitting the atom and landing a man on Mars. It's building a damn website. Something most teenagers could do in a few hours.
You're still living in the 90's with HTML language and a few simple links. I even created a few back then so you know it had to be easy.
Things have changed a bit now. Let's get the website up and running and then see if it stacks up.
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Sorry but no. SLU is head and shoulders above VCU. You may not like it, but there is no way VCU gets in and SLU is left out. Better school, better facilities, better financials, better market, better arena, better fit, better overall athletic profile (esp soccer), marginally lesser basketball program...emphasis on "marginally".
Only way they're not involved at 12 is if Notre Dame comes crawling back for some unknown reason with Gonzaga.
Only thing SLU has on VCU is a better media market. They are a better school academically, but frankly, I don't care that much. Its not like VCU is UNLV. We'd all be jumping at the chance to add Memphis or Louisville if they dropped football. I don't know much about SLU or VCU's other sports, again I don't care that much. Just like only football matters in the other Big 6 conferences, only basketball matters here.
And "marginally" is not a fair assessment of the difference between SLU and VCU's basketball programs. SLU has been to the tournament FIVE times in the last FIFTY FIVE YEARS. That's once every 11 years. Meanwhile, VCU has been 11 times in the last 33 years. Over twice as many appearances in nearly half the time. And one of those was a final four.
In addition, VCU enters this season as a consensus top 25 team and favorite to win their conference. SLU is possibly a tournament team but they will fall off from last season. Smart has stocked his recruiting classes with four stars and high threes. Crews has landed a few low three stars and a bunch of two stars. VCU is trending up, SLU is trending down.
Finally, VCU has Smart. Coaches make programs, not players. He has already turned down a blue blood to stay at VCU and is signed to at least 2017 if I remember correctly. Now coaches can bail, its true, but I really think he is sticking around for at least another year or two, enough time to keep VCU trending up toward perennial competitor. Meanwhile, Crews is a past his prime assistant who only found success last season because he got to bank on what Majerus left him.
Don't get me wrong, I think SLU does get added. I just think they are the third best option, after Gonzaga and VCU. (Unless we could get Notre Dame or get UCONN to drop football)
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Can someone please tell me why there is such an immense anti-Dayton sentiment on this board? At least some of it seams irrational (such as wanting Davidson over Dayton). Dayton has a nice arena, is a catholic school situated in a heavily populated region of the country, has a passionate fan base, and has historically been a pretty good team. Not to mention, we have a little bit of history with Dayton - they are 13th in teams that we have faced off against most in our history. Is it because Chris Wright jumped over Maurice Acker at that tournament a few years ago?
I say keep it private, urban, and easterly skewed - even in this day and age, conference identity should count for something.
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There was no first time yet. The site is simply a shell currently. Seriously doubt a slow roll-out of the website, etc. will have any bearing on the future of the BE.
Of course there was a first time. The league is "live" and they have a web-site up. And it sucks.
There are start up companies in people's basement with a better web-presence than the Big East Conference. That's pathetic.
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Only thing SLU has on VCU is a better media market. They are a better school academically, but frankly, I don't care that much. Its not like VCU is UNLV. We'd all be jumping at the chance to add Memphis or Louisville if they dropped football.
<snip>
(Unless we could get Notre Dame or get UCONN to drop football)
With the new "super division" looming, there is zero chance that ACC members ND or Louisville drop football. Perhaps UConn or Memphis would down the line, but only as a last resort and that will be years in the future.
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Can someone please tell me why there is such an immense anti-Dayton sentiment on this board? At least some of it seams irrational (such as wanting Davidson over Dayton). Dayton has a nice arena, is a catholic school situated in a heavily populated region of the country, has a passionate fan base, and has historically been a pretty good team. Not to mention, we have a little bit of history with Dayton - they are 13th in teams that we have faced off against most in our history. Is it because Chris Wright jumped over Maurice Acker at that tournament a few years ago?
I say keep it private, urban, and easterly skewed - even in this day and age, conference identity should count for something.
I think a lot of it is because the Dayton fans who have come here have been complete pricks. Especially UDPride....god I would love if he came back. But since his glorious prediction that no A10 schools would jump to the NBE, he has been absent.
Honestly, if we aren't going to take public schools, and we are limiting the conference to the east coast and midwest, Dayton would be my choice for #12.
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Only thing SLU has on VCU is a better media market. They are a better school academically, but frankly, I don't care that much.
I'm assuming you're saying SLU is better academically.
We'd all be jumping at the chance to add Memphis or Louisville if they dropped football.
Where does this view come from that VCU is comparable to Memphis and Louisville? Seriously, WHERE?
And "marginally" is not a fair assessment of the difference between SLU and VCU's basketball programs. SLU has been to the tournament FIVE times in the last FIFTY FIVE YEARS. That's once every 11 years. Meanwhile, VCU has been 11 times in the last 33 years. Over twice as many appearances in nearly half the time. And one of those was a final four.
One of those was also the ONLY time they've ever been to the second weekend of the tournament. Ever. And they probably shouldn't have even gotten in.
Both those sound pretty marginal to me. SLU had to compete against us, DePaul, Louisville, Cincy, and Memphis in the CUSA. So that's not all that surprising.
In addition, VCU enters this season as a consensus top 25 team and favorite to win their conference. SLU is possibly a tournament team but they will fall off from last season.
SLU is probably a tournament team. They didn't lose much from last year when they won the A10 over VCU.
Finally, VCU has Smart.
Who the current coach is is the dumbest reason to pick one school over another.
Coaches make programs, not players.
So what happens when he leaves? And he WILL leave.
Don't get me wrong, I think SLU does get added. I just think they are the third best option, after Gonzaga and VCU. (Unless we could get Notre Dame or get UCONN to drop football)
That's fine. Think what you want, but the president's will want SLU first, their Jesuit tradition, nearly $1 billion endowment, and market.
I know you said that the other programs don;t matter, but I believe they do to a limited degree - and just want to add that SLU is a blue-blood of soccer.
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Maybe they're making sure the correct content is published on the site. It would be equally as crappy if they threw something together really fast for the sake of putting it up. Rather what they currently have there now than a website full of misinformation and bugs.
Everyone realizes the Big East is at most 3 weeks away from starting competitions (soccer, golf, track, etc). Or maybe you don't because THERE IS NO WEBSITE LET ALONE PUBLISHED SCHEDULES!!!!! We're the exclamation points too much? Seriously I'm not looking for some sort of advanced, interactive web platform with tons of flash and huge marketing splash, but a straight forward webpage with links and some basic structure is a must. Would take 2 UWM marketing majors a week to do something like that.
Devil is in the details, get this crap organized and get moving
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Get SLU and Richmond, then close the gates.
and has historically been a pretty good team.
One NCAA win since 1990 says that history is also ancient.
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Can someone please tell me why there is such an immense anti-Dayton sentiment on this board? At least some of it seams irrational (such as wanting Davidson over Dayton). Dayton has a nice arena, is a catholic school situated in a heavily populated region of the country, has a passionate fan base, and has historically been a pretty good team. Not to mention, we have a little bit of history with Dayton - they are 13th in teams that we have faced off against most in our history. Is it because Chris Wright jumped over Maurice Acker at that tournament a few years ago?
I say keep it private, urban, and easterly skewed - even in this day and age, conference identity should count for something.
If Dayton were in Kentucky or Western Pennsylvania or Michigan they'd be in. But they're in Ohio less than one hour away from another member.
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If Dayton were in Kentucky or Western Pennsylvania or Michigan they'd be in. But they're in Ohio less than one hour away from another member.
I don't know if I agree with that. I don't think proximity to Xavier is the only thing keeping them out.
Look, Xavier and Butler were no-brainers. Creighton got a big boost from MU and got in...perhaps aided by the issues at SLU. We have been given some "leads" as to who the next members will be. SLU very likely...Dayton or Richmond for the last spot.
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She's doing a bang-up job with the website
http://www.bigeast.org/
Did you forget to put this in teal?
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Why do people like Richmond better then VCU, VCU, Draws more people to games, Is a much bigger school, and Has had success with multiple coachs. Is a nationally known Team and has had lots of success the last 5-10 years. If its between Richmond and Dayton I take Dayton. At least they have been OK and have good support. Richmond would be worse then Depaul and Seton Hall.
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Why do people like Richmond better then VCU, VCU, Draws more people to games, Is a much bigger school, and Has had success with multiple coachs. Is a nationally known Team and has had lots of success the last 5-10 years. If its between Richmond and Dayton I take Dayton. At least they have been OK and have good support. Richmond would be worse then Depaul and Seton Hall.
The only reason that Richmond is in the discussion is because of two assumptions...
1. The NBE isn't interested in public universities. (so no VCU), and
2. The eastern members want some sort of east/midwest balance (so if SLU gets an invite, there is no room for Dayton.)
And outside of Richmond, there isn't another private university in the east that makes any sort of sense. You end up talking about schools like Duquesne, Sienna, St. Bonaventure, and their ilk.
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The only reason that Richmond is in the discussion is because of two assumptions...
1. The NBE isn't interested in public universities. (so no VCU), and
2. The eastern members want some sort of east/midwest balance (so if SLU gets an invite, there is no room for Dayton.)
And outside of Richmond, there isn't another private university in the east that makes any sort of sense. You end up talking about schools like Duquesne, Sienna, St. Bonaventure, and their ilk.
+ they're RICH!!!!
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Did you forget to put this in teal?
Didn't think that was necessary...
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There's the BW3 Dayton commercial and then there's also the hilarious Dayton Hitler video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ1cwq8-SBQ\
Notice that nobody ever made a parody for SLU or VCU or anybody else. Nope, just Dayton.
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With the new "super division" looming, there is zero chance that ACC members ND or Louisville drop football. Perhaps UConn or Memphis would down the line, but only as a last resort and that will be years in the future.
As long as ND is commited to staying independent in Football, I see no reason they would not be accepted in the Big East. They already turned down the "Big 10" where they would have made far more money than they do now.
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The only reason that Richmond is in the discussion is because of two assumptions...
1. The NBE isn't interested in public universities. (so no VCU), and
2. The eastern members want some sort of east/midwest balance (so if SLU gets an invite, there is no room for Dayton.)
And outside of Richmond, there isn't another private university in the east that makes any sort of sense. You end up talking about schools like Duquesne, Sienna, St. Bonaventure, and their ilk.
That's one way of saying it. Another would be Georgetown is afraid of VCU and not of Richmond.
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Didn't think that was necessary...
Just checking. . . i'm sure someone out there (in addition to Val Ackerman) actually does think this is a great start.
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There's the BW3 Dayton commercial and then there's also the hilarious Dayton Hitler video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ1cwq8-SBQ\
Notice that nobody ever made a parody for SLU or VCU or anybody else. Nope, just Dayton.
Thinking about this, why would a lack of interest in SLU or VCU be good for the league?
If you're trying to create intense rivalries that would keep people interested, it sounds like Dayton should be the #1 choice.
Everyone in the league seems to hate them.
And they seem to hate everyone else.
So why would the league prefer a milquetoast team like SLU or Richmond that won't generate passions from anyone?
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Thinking about this, why would a lack of interest in SLU or VCU be good for the league?
If you're trying to create intense rivalries that would keep people interested, it sounds like Dayton should be the #1 choice.
Everyone in the league seems to hate them.
And they seem to hate everyone else.
So why would the league prefer a milquetoast team like SLU or Richmond that won't generate passions from anyone?
Fair point. But the reason we hate them is they would be bad for the league.
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Just checking. . . i'm sure someone out there (in addition to Val Ackerman) actually does think this is a great start.
Its bad enough that its still a placeholder website. Its hilarious that it has her mug right in the middle of it. This conference is not about her. Its about the teams.
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Fair point. But the reason we hate them is they would be bad for the league.
They couldn't be any worse than Seton Hall or DePaul have been
Its bad enough that its still a placeholder website. Its hilarious that it has her mug right in the middle of it. This conference is not about her. Its about the teams.
With her head there, the first thing that came to mind was that old Deee-Lite video with the heads floating in the background of the video.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2LvIX0xshVs/UIlyaIeiwSI/AAAAAAAAYpA/JZM4cBkuoUY/s400/Deee-Lite+-+Groove+Is+In+The+Heart++3.png)
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If Dayton were in Virginia or Western Pennsylvania or Upstate New York they'd be in. But they're in Ohio less than one hour away from another member.
FIFY
The issue is adding a Midwest vs East Coast team (that doesn't scare Georgetown).
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FIFY
The issue is adding a Midwest vs East Coast team (that doesn't scare Georgetown).
Don't think Georgetown is scared of VCU. They have zero presence here.
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It appears that the theme for the BEast 2.0 presidents are private schools with similar mission statements and similar commitments to top quality basketball. This eliminates VCU, as good as they are. Richmond, SLU, and Dayton seem to fit those criteria and are geographically viable. I will say again that I expect no expansion for 5 years. IMO, whichever 2 of the above 3 have raised the profile of their program the most will probably be invited.
However, if Duquesne, Detroit Mercy, or a couple of other A-10 schools were to take off instead, they could be in the mix, too.
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They couldn't be any worse than Seton Hall or DePaul have been
I'm going to guess the people at FS1 wouldn't trade either for Dayton. If they would, there's a pretty good chance Dayton would be in the league instead of Creighton.
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Don't think Georgetown is scared of VCU. They have zero presence here.
And that's how Georgetown wants to keep it.
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It appears that the theme for the BEast 2.0 presidents are private schools with similar mission statements and similar commitments to top quality basketball. This eliminates VCU, as good as they are. Richmond, SLU, and Dayton seem to fit those criteria and are geographically viable. I will say again that I expect no expansion for 5 years. IMO, whichever 2 of the above 3 have raised the profile of their program the most will probably be invited.
However, if Duquesne, Detroit Mercy, or a couple of other A-10 schools were to take off instead, they could be in the mix, too.
Really a shame Holy Cross gave up on athletics years ago. Boston U really isn't a possibility, though they at least have fans (for hockey).
I wouldn't sleep on Drake emerging after the power vacuum caused by Creighton's departure takes effect.
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FIFY
The issue is adding a Midwest vs East Coast team (that doesn't scare Georgetown).
I don't buy that the team needs to be on the east coast. Gonzaga and SLU would be added in a minute if they could get the Zags.
I still don't get the VCU fear. Georgetown isn't worried about the #3-5 most popular public school in Virginia (esp one 3 hours south). Now George Mason is another matter. Would we have wanted UWM after/during their run?
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We're not talking about splitting the atom and landing a man on Mars. It's building a damn website. Something most teenagers could do in a few hours.
False.
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I'm assuming you're saying SLU is better academically.Where does this view come from that VCU is comparable to Memphis and Louisville? Seriously, WHERE?
Yes, I agree SLU is better academically. And I was comparing VCU to Louisville/Memphis in academics only. Lousiville is ranked 10 spots higher than in US News and World Report and Memphis is lower. My point was that we wouldn't let their academics stop us from adding them. (And I realize that they will not drop football, just making a point)
Both those sound pretty marginal to me. SLU had to compete against us, DePaul, Louisville, Cincy, and Memphis in the CUSA. So that's not all that surprising. SLU is probably a tournament team. They didn't lose much from last year when they won the A10 over VCU.
I think a tournament once every eleven years is a helluva lot worse than a tournament once every three years. And even if their run to the final four was their only time past the first weekend, its still better than SLU who has NEVER been past the first weekend. They have had TWO tournament wins in the past 61 years. VCU had more in one tournament.
SLU lost their starting PG, starting C, and their backup center (37% of their offense). You're right, that's not too bad. But they replaced them with nothing. One very low 3 star and two 2 stars. I think they take a step down. But you are right, I think they will be in the tournament. VCU lost two starters and the three bottom players on their bench (30% of their offense). They replace them with a 4 star, a high 3 star, a low 3 star, a 2 star, and a talented transfer. They will be better next season
Who the current coach is is the dumbest reason to pick one school over another. So what happens when he leaves? And he WILL leave. That's fine. Think what you want, but the president's will want SLU first, their Jesuit tradition, nearly $1 billion endowment, and market.
I disagree. Like it or not, we got into the Big East largely because of Tom Crean. Conferences put a lot of stock in strong coaching. They have the ability to turn mid majors into regular contenders.
I also don't think Smart is going anywhere anytime soon. If he was the type of coach to bail, he would have left after the Final Four run when his stock was sky high. He didn't. Then when a blue blood came knocking this year, he could have bailed and no one would have been surprised. He didn't. In fact, he extended his contract. What job is coming open soon that is better than UCLA? I think he only leaves for Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, Duke, or Indiana. And none of those coaches are going anywhere in the next couple of years. (Unless cheating finally catches up with Cal...we can only hope)
Market, absolutely matters. Endowment, helps but not as much as you would think. Jesuit tradition? Doesn't mean squat in this decision. We are no better than the football schools. This decision will be made for the $$$$. And I think a strong basketball program in a so so market like VCU is more profitable than a weak basketball program in a strong market like SLU.
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With the new "super division" looming, there is zero chance that ACC members ND or Louisville drop football. Perhaps UConn or Memphis would down the line, but only as a last resort and that will be years in the future.
I wasn't suggesting that they would. I just needed institutions that were academically similar to VCU in order to make a point.
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If Dayton were in Kentucky or Western Pennsylvania or Michigan they'd be in. But they're in Ohio less than one hour away from another member.
+1
Here in lies my main problem with Dayton. I know we will have to let in some sub par basketball programs (Depaul...Seton Hall...maybe SLU in the future) but they need to at least bring in a fresh large market. Dayton sits in middle of nowhere Ohio...whose media market is already taken care of by Xavier. The only thing they would bring us is a little rivalry.
When I said I would take Davidson over Dayton, I meant it. Not because Davidson is better than Dayton at basketball, but because they at least bring in a new tv market.
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It appears that the theme for the BEast 2.0 presidents are private schools with similar mission statements and similar commitments to top quality basketball. This eliminates VCU, as good as they are. Richmond, SLU, and Dayton seem to fit those criteria and are geographically viable. I will say again that I expect no expansion for 5 years. IMO, whichever 2 of the above 3 have raised the profile of their program the most will probably be invited.
However, if Duquesne, Detroit Mercy, or a couple of other A-10 schools were to take off instead, they could be in the mix, too.
I disagree. Our theme is top quality basketball, and top quality basketball only. We are no better than the football schools. We care about $$$$ above all us. Excluding public schools with quality basketball programs would be a mistake. We all know that if UCONN suddenly dropped football, we would welcome them with open arms.
We have gotten caught up in the private schools only because when we formed the league, the 10 most quality programs happened to all be private. That and the fact that we got too used to ESPN calling us the Catholic 7
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+1
Here in lies my main problem with Dayton. I know we will have to let in some sub par basketball programs (Depaul...Seton Hall...maybe SLU in the future) but they need to at least bring in a fresh large market. Dayton sits in middle of nowhere Ohio...whose media market is already taken care of by Xavier. The only thing they would bring us is a little rivalry.
When I said I would take Davidson over Dayton, I meant it. Not because Davidson is better than Dayton at basketball, but because they at least bring in a new tv market.
New TV market AND new recruiting grounds
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+1
Here in lies my main problem with Dayton. I know we will have to let in some sub par basketball programs (Depaul...Seton Hall...maybe SLU in the future) but they need to at least bring in a fresh large market. Dayton sits in middle of nowhere Ohio...whose media market is already taken care of by Xavier. The only thing they would bring us is a little rivalry.
When I said I would take Davidson over Dayton, I meant it. Not because Davidson is better than Dayton at basketball, but because they at least bring in a new tv market.
Dayton is a different TV market than Cincinnati. And Davidson doesn't bring in anything because they are a dinky school with very little interest from the general public. That would be like inviting Cardinal Stritch to get the Milwaukee market.
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Dayton is a different TV market than Cincinnati. And Davidson doesn't bring in anything because they are a dinky school with very little interest from the general public. That would be like inviting Cardinal Stritch to get the Milwaukee market.
What media market are they then? Columbus? Indianapolis? Their own Dayton market? Cause none of those are worth adding. And I would argue that having Xavier in the Cincinnati and Butler in Indianapolis more than cover anything that Dayton could try and bring.
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What media market are they then? Columbus? Indianapolis? Their own Dayton market? Cause none of those are worth adding. And I would argue that having Xavier in the Cincinnati and Butler in Indianapolis more than cover anything that Dayton could try and bring.
They are in their own media market. Dayton isn't a suburb of Cincinnati. It's has it's own metro area and its own television stations.
I'm not disagreeing with you that it is not significant, but it is much more significant than Davidson.
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They are in their own media market. Dayton isn't a suburb of Cincinnati. It's has it's own metro area and its own television stations.
I'm not disagreeing with you that it is not significant, but it is much more significant than Davidson.
You could make a decent argument that Davidson is a part of the Charlotte market which is considerably bigger than Dayton.
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What media market are they then? Columbus? Indianapolis? Their own Dayton market? Cause none of those are worth adding. And I would argue that having Xavier in the Cincinnati and Butler in Indianapolis more than cover anything that Dayton could try and bring.
Dayton is its own DMA
Cincinnati its own DMA
Columbus its own DMA
Lima its own DMA
Youngstown..same
Cleveland...same
Toledo...same
Those are the 7 television markets in Ohio
Then you have a few that spill into Ohio, like Ft. Wayne, Wheeling WV, Charleston/Huntington WV, and Parkersburg
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You could make a decent argument that Davidson is a part of the Charlotte market which is considerably bigger than Dayton.
And you could make a decent argument that Loyola is part of the Chicago market...that doesn't mean people will watch them.
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Dayton is its own DMA
Cincinnati its own DMA
Columbus its own DMA
Lima its own DMA
Youngstown..same
Cleveland...same
Toledo...same
Those are the 7 television markets in Ohio
Then you have a few that spill into Ohio, like Ft. Wayne, Wheeling WV, Charleston/Huntington WV, and Parkersburg
No Akron?
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And you could make a decent argument that Loyola is part of the Chicago market...that doesn't mean people will watch them.
Loyola is more a part of Chicago than Northwestern (Rogers Park/Edgewater = Chicago while Evanston = not Chicago). But if Davidson were pulled to a major conference people would probably watch also likely the same reason Loyola isn't watched in Chicago compared to Depaul and Northwestern.
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Loyola is more a part of Chicago than Northwestern (Rogers Park/Edgewater = Chicago while Evanston = not Chicago). But if Davidson were pulled to a major conference people would probably watch also likely the same reason Loyola isn't watched in Chicago compared to Depaul and Northwestern.
I don't think that's generally how it works. Just because you join a major conference doesn't mean that all of the sudden you get more people watching you. Otherwise the NBE would invite Detroit and Boston U. Put it this way, if DePaul dropped all athletics, the NBE wouldn't add Loyola as a replacement.
Davidson just doesn't have a significant fan base.
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I don't think that's generally how it works. Just because you join a major conference doesn't mean that all of the sudden you get more people watching you. Otherwise the NBE would invite Detroit and Boston U. Put it this way, if DePaul dropped all athletics, the NBE wouldn't add Loyola as a replacement.
Davidson just doesn't have a significant fan base.
Oh I agree about the Depaul Loyola thing. Unless Loyola suddenly got their act together in their new conference which would be nice to add another Jesuit school and school with a national championship in it's history. I don't see Boston U getting the invite though I could see Detroit as we lack a Michigan presence. But look at MU during the crappy noncon games we barely have a student section and Marquette bars like the schoolyard are practically empty now if every game was like that of course people would barely watch or attend (Davidson now) but if they had powerhouse teams coming in testing them every night then I would expect the support to follow.
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I just think you are mistaken that you can "create fandom" by joining a conference and having that fandom translate into viewers. Otherwise why would the NBE take Creighton instead of Detroit?
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I just think you are mistaken that you can "create fandom" by joining a conference and having that fandom translate into viewers. Otherwise why would the NBE take Creighton instead of Detroit?
Because Creighton has success that significantly adds to our resume (18 > 6), already has fans so there's no waiting period or gamble, its in a city people will go to and not get shot, had an inside man to help get them into the league. You pick
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Because Creighton has success that significantly adds to our resume (18 > 6), already has fans so there's no waiting period or gamble, its in a city people will go to and not get shot, had an inside man to help get them into the league. You pick
Exactly. All reasons besides market size that are important. Davidson's success outside of the Curry era has been marginal and largely based on their conference affiliation. They have a small alumni base. Play in a small gym. The only think that could possibly help them is their market size, but they are even a bit player in that market.
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Everyone realizes the Big East is at most 3 weeks away from starting competitions (soccer, golf, track, etc). Or maybe you don't because THERE IS NO WEBSITE LET ALONE PUBLISHED SCHEDULES!!!!! We're the exclamation points too much? Seriously I'm not looking for some sort of advanced, interactive web platform with tons of flash and huge marketing splash, but a straight forward webpage with links and some basic structure is a must. Would take 2 UWM marketing majors a week to do something like that.
Devil is in the details, get this crap organized and get moving
Um there are published schedules. I know the soccer schedules are published on all the school's websites. All the fall schedules are already taken care of.
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She's doing a bang-up job with the website
http://www.bigeast.org/
Read in another article the website was on hold until a commissioner was hired. Hopefully it'll be online by August 17 when FS1 launches.
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Exactly. All reasons besides market size that are important. Davidson's success outside of the Curry era has been marginal and largely based on their conference affiliation. They have a small alumni base. Play in a small gym. The only think that could possibly help them is their market size, but they are even a bit player in that market.
And, Davidson is about 25 miles outside of Charlotte. Not truly "in market" either.
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Now that the server issues are solved, I'll post the Nielsen market list when I get to a computer. Ft. Meyers, FL is a bigger market than Dayton. Bring on Florida Gulf Coast!
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Why do people like Richmond better then VCU, VCU, Draws more people to games, Is a much bigger school, and Has had success with multiple coachs. Is a nationally known Team and has had lots of success the last 5-10 years. If its between Richmond and Dayton I take Dayton. At least they have been OK and have good support. Richmond would be worse then Depaul and Seton Hall.
Georgetown reportedly likes Richmond, maybe because they are in the East, are very good academically, and have a FCS football team like Georgetown.
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And, Davidson is about 25 miles outside of Charlotte. Not truly "in market" either.
Proximity to the center of the market doesn't have any bearing on their presence in the market. For 99% of schools regarding their nearest TV market, you are either in or out. I would agree that they aren't a heavy player in their market, but they do have at least a minimal presence in 3 of the top-10 college basketball television markets. Not saying I would use that as a reason to take them, though.
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Proximity to the center of the market doesn't have any bearing on their presence in the market. For 99% of schools regarding their nearest TV market, you are either in or out. I would agree that they aren't a heavy player in their market, but they do have at least a minimal presence in 3 of the top-10 college basketball television markets. Not saying I would use that as a reason to take them, though.
I'd say UNC-Charlotte is probably top dog (NCAA men's basketball-wise) in that market anyway.
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Proximity to the center of the market doesn't have any bearing on their presence in the market. For 99% of schools regarding their nearest TV market, you are either in or out. I would agree that they aren't a heavy player in their market, but they do have at least a minimal presence in 3 of the top-10 college basketball television markets. Not saying I would use that as a reason to take them, though.
All true, but it is a small school and is 25 miles from Charlotte. Beautiful campus, but...............
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Here's the most recent Nielsen Market rankings.
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I'd say UNC-Charlotte Chapel Hill is probably top dog (NCAA men's basketball-wise) in that market anyway.
FIFY
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FIFY
Was referring to schools actually located in that market, but fair enough, your point is well taken.