Heat/Spurs Game 6

[MUSF]

Nope. Could keep this up for days. I'm sure there is something /someone you don't like either. All part of what makes each of us different. I will never be a fan of his. Sorry..

I don't expect you to be a fan, but stop trying to convince people that he's not that good.

I hated Bird, Kareem, Stockton, and Malone, but I am still able to admit that they were all time greats.

[nyg]

Was a great playoff year for NBA and I agree the ratings should be off the charts.

Bosch, Miller and Allen shoot 0 for 14, scoring zero points among them and the Heat still win.  Lebron was awesome, Wade was awesome and props to Battier, who had sucked on offense the whole series and has one tremendous game when it counts. 

[Sunbelt15]

I hate the MVP argument simply because players in the past were given less MVPs than the deserved simply because people got tired of voting for the same guy. Karl Malone? Please...

Agreed because Steve Nash truly didn't deserve his second MVP.

[GGGG]

Tier 1 in no particular order:
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Russell
Wilt
Jabbar
Robertson

Tier 2 in no particular order:
Shaq
Kobe
James
Duncan
West
Elgin Baylor

If wade had been able to stay healthy I think he would have been in tier 2.  The question for Lebron is if he can stay at the top of the league or if some of the up-and-coming players (Durant) surpass him.  Health is the main issue.

As for a 6-8 260 lb guy that can play all positions.  I'll take Magic every day of the week.

Lebron James could be hit by a car tomorrow, and he'd have a better career than Larry Bird did.

And really, the Oscar Robertson thing is very misguided.

And while I loved Magic, you need to account for the fact that he was at best an average defender...whereas James is an elite defender.

[MU82]

Ners, you are right (but lebron has a long way to go to be 1A).  My thought was that right now Lebron is in the next tier of great stars (and as he is young will likely move up).  I thought that next tier is larger than it actually is.  My problem is that Lebron has been the clearly best in the league really only the last two years.  Before that a healthy Wade gave him a run for his money and a healthy Kobe was clearly his superior.  Looking back at it all I would still break it into two tiers, with Lebron currently in tier two, but likely if he can continue as he has the last two years move into tier 1 no problem.

Tier 1 in no particular order:
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Russell
Wilt
Jabbar
Robertson

Tier 2 in no particular order:
Shaq
Kobe
James
Duncan
West
Elgin Baylor

If wade had been able to stay healthy I think he would have been in tier 2.  The question for Lebron is if he can stay at the top of the league or if some of the up-and-coming players (Durant) surpass him.  Health is the main issue.

As for a 6-8 260 lb guy that can play all positions.  I'll take Magic every day of the week.

You really don't think Julius Erving belongs on one of those tiers?

[MerrittsMustache]

Dude can't win.

It must be exhausting for all of you haters to have to keep finding something to bash the guy about.

Regardless of Game 7's outcome, the top sports story today was going to be LeBron.

[jmayer1]

You really don't think Julius Erving belongs on one of those tiers?

I don't think so, but Hakeem does.

I would consider Lebron to be tier 1 now if you want to use those categorizations.

It's also ridiculous to say Kobe was better than James at any point after his first few years, and downright silly to say he was 3 years ago.

[jsglow]

I consider myself blessed to have been able to watch and cheer for the Bulls during the height of the championship era from right here in Chicago.  I've also been a diehard Heat fan since DWade put on the jersey.  Here's my observation about James vs. Jordan:

In my mind what made Michael so very special and #1 all-time was his unique ability to personally play at the highest level his skillset would allow nearly 100% of the time.  He had unique mental toughness that started to exhibit itself after about 6 years in the league beginning with the shot against Cleveland.  I think that James is blessed with nearly equivalent athletic and basketball ability (although a somewhat different skillset than Jordan).  What James is yet to fully master is the mental side of the game.  There are times when he simply 'goes away' followed by times (usually in the 4th quarter which is key....think game 6) when he is able to summon his super hero cape and dominate.  You can practically see it in his eyes and know when he's 'feeling it'.

As to who better represented the league, that's an easy answer for me.  Jordan's public persona was a Gatorade creation in my mind. In reality, he has a mediocre reputation in Chicago for anyone who chose to look carefully. Scottie Pippen was also often less than a stellar citizen.  I'll take Wade, Ray Allen and James any day on that front and therefore chalk up much of the  Heat hatred as simply 'best team envy'.

[MerrittsMustache]

Lebron James could be hit by a car tomorrow, and he'd have a better career than Larry Bird did.

And really, the Oscar Robertson thing is very misguided.

And while I loved Magic, you need to account for the fact that he was at best an average defender...whereas James is an elite defender.

Agree 1000%

[Hards Alumni]

I consider myself blessed to have been able to watch and cheer for the Bulls during the height of the championship era from right here in Chicago.  I've also been a diehard Heat fan since DWade put on the jersey.  Here's my observation about James vs. Jordan:

In my mind what made Michael so very special and #1 all-time was his unique ability to personally play at the highest level his skillset would allow nearly 100% of the time.  He had unique mental toughness that started to exhibit itself after about 6 years in the league beginning with the shot against Cleveland.  I think that James is blessed with nearly equivalent athletic and basketball ability (although a somewhat different skillset than Jordan).  What James is yet to fully master is the mental side of the game.  There are times when he simply 'goes away' followed by times (usually in the 4th quarter which is key....think game 6) when he is able to summon his super hero cape and dominate.  You can practically see it in his eyes and know when he's 'feeling it'.

As to who better represented the league, that's an easy answer for me.  Jordan's public persona was a Gatorade creation in my mind. In reality, he has a mediocre reputation in Chicago for anyone who chose to look carefully. Scottie Pippen was also often less than a stellar citizen.  I'll take Wade, Ray Allen and James any day on that front and therefore chalk up much of the  Heat hatred as simply 'best team envy'.

Mike and Mike were discussing the comparisons, they said that Jordan was all out all of the time.  That is the offensive separation.  The duo both agreed that LBJ was easily the better defender.  They used Tony Parker as an example... TP blows by everyone, but LBJ managed to defend him quite well when he was asked to... and LBJ is 6'8 260lbs.

While I understand the comparisons, they are different types of players.  If I had to pick first between the two I'd take Jordan simply because he elevated everyone around him.  His competitive streak is second to none.

[nyg]

They are pretty even right now:

Lebron at 28:  4 MVPs, 2 NBA Titles, 2 NBA Final MVPs, 9 All Star selections

MJ at 29:       3 MVPs, 2 NBA Titiles, 2 NBA Final MVPS, 8 All Star selections

[ChicosBailBonds]

Only one other person did this

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/21/4451630/king-of-the-finals/in/4212789

[MerrittsMustache]

They are pretty even right now:

Lebron at 28:  4 MVPs, 2 NBA Titles, 2 NBA Final MVPs, 9 All Star selections

MJ at 29:       3 MVPs, 2 NBA Titiles, 2 NBA Final MVPS, 8 All Star selections

LeBron had an extra season in there, but that's still pretty impressive.

It's also a joke that MJ only won 5 MVPs. He should have at least 8-10 MVP awards. LeBron should probably have more than 4 already as well.

[jsglow]

They are pretty even right now:

Lebron at 28:  4 MVPs, 2 NBA Titles, 2 NBA Final MVPs, 9 All Star selections

MJ at 29:       3 MVPs, 2 NBA Titiles, 2 NBA Final MVPS, 8 All Star selections

Thanks for that.  Really interesting.  For me, part of this will be whether James can sustain his level of play and lead the Heat to several more championships.  At 29, Michael still had many great years ahead.  His ability to simply dominate and elevate his team was unmatched.

[nyg]

The Heat will probably rid themselves of Miller and O'Neil.  Haslem maybe, Battier and Allen also, but the Heat have no draft choices.

Wade will get his knee repaired and the Heat will get replacements to continue this run, even with salary cap issue.  Bench/role player free agents should be be lining up to be a part of this. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

17.7 rating.  I think the NBA is quite happy. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Thanks for that.  Really interesting.  For me, part of this will be whether James can sustain his level of play and lead the Heat to several more championships.  At 29, Michael still had many great years ahead.  His ability to simply dominate and elevate his team was unmatched.

It will be really interesting to see how LeBron's body holds up these next few years. He has played a lot of games and a lot of minutes for someone his age and has been remarkably healthy. We've never really seen someone his size play his style of game so there's not really a good comparison out there for how his body could potentially hold up. A lot of explosive perimeter players have had their bodies, particularly their feet and knees, begin to breakdown on them in their 30s and none of them were carrying 260+ pounds. I truly hope he stays healthy because he has a chance to go down as the greatest player of all time.

It's amazing to me that he's only 28. Barring major injury, he could conceivably be in the NBA for 8-10 more years. I look forward to seeing how he progresses - will be be able to sustain his explosiveness, will he become more of a spot-up 3-point shooter, etc. Personally, I could see a 35-year-old LeBron playing a pick-and-pop/Karl Malone type role and still putting up 25 a game for a contender.

[NavinRJohnson]

I truly hope he stays healthy because he has a chance to go down as the greatest player of all time.

It's amazing to me that he's only 28. Barring major injury, he could conceivably be in the NBA for 8-10 more years. I look forward to seeing how he progresses - will be be able to sustain his explosiveness, will he become more of a spot-up 3-point shooter, etc. Personally, I could see a 35-year-old LeBron playing a pick-and-pop/Karl Malone type role and still putting up 25 a game for a contender.

This is what's so fascinating about him compared to others. It appears he has totally unique size, strength, and skill to be able to completely transform his game when the time comes. He may not be guarding all five positions in a few years from now, as he does now, but if he holds up physically, there is no reason to believe he can't remain a dominant offensive player for many years to come.

I suspect he'll win one or two more titles in Miami, then return to the young talent being assembled in Cleveland for one or two there. After that who knows.

[MerrittsMustache]

The Heat will probably rid themselves of Miller and O'Neil.  Haslem maybe, Battier and Allen also, but the Heat have no draft choices.

Wade will get his knee repaired and the Heat will get replacements to continue this run, even with salary cap issue.  Bench/role player free agents should be be lining up to be a part of this. 

Bosh to Charlotte for the #4 pick and one of Mullens/Biyombo/Sessions. Take Bennett or Len at #4 or look to trade down for another piece (shooter?) plus a lower pick to take a more NBA-ready big man like Olynyk, Dieng or Plumlee.

Somebody get me Pat Riley's number!

[NavinRJohnson]

Haters gonna hate...

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/06/21/baffoe-keep-hating-lebron-james/

[reinko]

Bosh to Charlotte for the #4 pick and one of Mullens/Biyombo/Sessions. Take Bennett or Len at #4 or look to trade down for another piece (shooter?) plus a lower pick to take a more NBA-ready big man like Olynyk, Dieng or Plumlee.

Somebody get me Pat Riley's number!

No way anyone (actually MJ might be dumb enough too) takes that Bosh contract.  Dude is max player for the next 3 years.  19 mil next year, 21 mil in a player option, then 22 mil the year after in another player option.  

I am not sure if he is even a top 50 player anymore, maybe in talent, but not that with that contract.

[MerrittsMustache]

No way anyone (actually MJ might be dumb enough too) takes that Bosh contract.  Dude is max player for the next 3 years.  19 mil next year, 21 mil in a player option, then 22 mil the year after in another player option.  

I am not sure if he is even a top 50 player anymore, maybe in talent, but not that with that contract.

Not saying it's a smart move for Charlotte, but the rumors are out there.

[Hards Alumni]

The Heat don't need Bosh.  They need a big banger down low.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not saying it's a smart move for Charlotte, but the rumors are out there.

Who is the owner and chairman of the Charlotte franchise?   

[ChicosBailBonds]

MJ and LJ


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/20846631-419/lebron-james-has-critics-that-michael-jordan-never-dealt-with.html