Looney?

[LAMUfan]

Isn't Looney more of a Jamil Wilson type then a "stud big"?  What is your point?

Jajuannaman beat me to it 

[4everwarriors]

BeeJay is the self proclaimed authority around here on nice asses.

[Goose]

If I were Looney I would be offended Bo compared him to Jalen Rose. I think he is much more Kevin Durant than Jalen Rose. Wherever he ends up next year IMO he will be immediate impact kid. Have to be honest, going to UW would hurt. Hope 4ever is right and he ends up at Duke.

[Silkk the Shaka]

If I were Looney I would be offended Bo compared him to Jalen Rose. I think he is much more Kevin Durant than Jalen Rose. Wherever he ends up next year IMO he will be immediate impact kid. Have to be honest, going to UW would hurt. Hope 4ever is right and he ends up at Duke.

Yeah, as much as I hate Duke I really want him to go there over UW.

[GGGG]

If I were Looney I would be offended Bo compared him to Jalen Rose. I think he is much more Kevin Durant than Jalen Rose.

Why would you be "offended?"  Jalen Rose was a hell of a college basketball player.  He didn't average a double-double in one year of college, but here is what Scout says about Looney:

"When watching Looney it's his skill and ability to rebound that standout. At 6-foot-8, he's a versatile forward that handles the ball well, has great touch and can score in a variety of ways. He can hit mid-range range shots and even threes, although his shot could be more consistent, but he's also capable of scoring at the rim. He's a relentless rebounder that plays the game with energy and toughness."

Here is what they said about Durant:

"Will graduate high school as a 17-year old senior, making him one of the youngest players in his class. Superior 3-point shooter with a soft touch. Shoots off dribble. Tries to play inside but strength is not there. Good athlete and a true small forward. Elite level prospect, has star power."

I'll be honest, I think the Rose comparison is better than the Durant one.  Looney sounds like much more of a driver, mid-range scorer than an outside bomber.  That is more like Rose than it is Durant.

[nyg]

Why would you be "offended?"  Jalen Rose was a hell of a college basketball player.  He didn't average a double-double in one year of college, but here is what Scout says about Looney:

"When watching Looney it's his skill and ability to rebound that standout. At 6-foot-8, he's a versatile forward that handles the ball well, has great touch and can score in a variety of ways. He can hit mid-range range shots and even threes, although his shot could be more consistent, but he's also capable of scoring at the rim. He's a relentless rebounder that plays the game with energy and toughness."

Here is what they said about Durant:

"Will graduate high school as a 17-year old senior, making him one of the youngest players in his class. Superior 3-point shooter with a soft touch. Shoots off dribble. Tries to play inside but strength is not there. Good athlete and a true small forward. Elite level prospect, has star power."

I'll be honest, I think the Rose comparison is better than the Durant one.  Looney sounds like much more of a driver, mid-range scorer than an outside bomber.  That is more like Rose than it is Durant.

I agree.  Rose was the 13th selection in draft, spent 14 years in the NBA, made a boatload of money and now has an excellent media gig. 

[The Equalizer]

God help us if we've reached a point where recruits are offended at being compared to a player who's college career averaged 34 minutes and 17.5 points/game, helped their team reach the national championship game, and then went on to a 13 year NBA career.

[Dawson Rental]

We got to the Elite 8 and unfortunately played one of our worst games of the season at that point. It wasn't because of bigs that we lost to Syracuse, it was because we were awful in virtually every aspect of the game.

As far as marquee bigs, I'm not sure what qualifies a marquee big. Is it a McDonald's All-American center or power forward? Are we only talking about centers? Does top-50 count? Top-100?

I went through the RSCI for the past 5 years (since Buzz got here) and in that time there have been 183 players in the top-100 at the C and PF positions that went to 76 different schools. Of those, 92 went to 17 schools. Here are the 17 schools with 4+ top-100 RSCI centers and power forwards the past 5 years:

Kentucky: 12
North Carolina: 8
Arizona: 7
Pittsburgh, Baylor: 6
Villanova, Duke, Louisville, NC State, Syracuse: 5
Georgia Tech, UCLA, Michigan State, Texas, Georgetown, Memphis, Indiana: 4

Marquette landed 2 such players, Maymon and Taylor. That's pretty close to blue-bloods like Ohio State, Kansas, Florida, and Connecticut (3 each) and more than Purdue, Missouri, Maryland, and Wisconsin (1 each). Quite simply, we don't have a big man reputation and my guess is until Buzz puts a 3-star big in the league we probably won't start to develop one. But we're keeping up pretty well considering more than half of these guys go to 17 schools.

Of course, until he got physically separated from his dad, Maymon resented being characterized as a PF.  Other schools get big men outside the top 100 and develop them.  I wouldn't be surprised if Buzz, after trying that route with Mbao and McMorrow, decided he rather get a usable player with his scholarship, rather than take a flyer that a tall kid could develop.

[willie warrior]

Looney is a wiry small forward/wing.  He is not a big man or post player, despite his height.  I would think the comparisons to Jalen Rose and Kevin Durant referenced above should help illustrate that for you.

Gardner is one of the most offensively efficient big men in the country.  How does he not count as a "quality big?"  We're going to have the best front line in our brand new conference and one of the best in the nation this coming year. 

Are these concepts lost on you?

Ellenson is ranked #22 overall by ESPN, #6 at his position.  I think that counts.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/143158/henry-ellenson

Sorry, I love Gardner but how many people consider him a quality big. I don't know, but I do know that Buzz does not consider him as a big time player or he would be playing 30 plus minutes a game. And please don't start telling me it is conditioning or that Otule deserves those minutes. If that is so then he is not a quality big. Is that concept lost on you?

[willie warrior]

Looney is a wiry small forward/wing.  He is not a big man or post player, despite his height.  I would think the comparisons to Jalen Rose and Kevin Durant referenced above should help illustrate that for you.

Gardner is one of the most offensively efficient big men in the country.  How does he not count as a "quality big?"  We're going to have the best front line in our brand new conference and one of the best in the nation this coming year. 

Are these concepts lost on you?

Ellenson is ranked #22 overall by ESPN, #6 at his position.  I think that counts.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/143158/henry-ellenson

I was not aware that Ellenson was ranked that high, but he is two years out and Buzz has not landed him. I hope he does, but until he does, it doesn't count for anything either. Would not be surprised that Bucky Bo hooked him.

[wadesworld]

There's a simple solution...willie warrior will stop posting his entirely ignorant, stupid, uninformed, clueless opinions when people start to ignore him.  And there's a simple way to do that...the "Ignore" button.

When you learn a single thing about college basketball have someone notify me and I'll take you off pal.

[MuMark]

Only those that know anything about basketball.....everybody else thinks he stinks.

Sorry, I love Gardner but how many people consider him a quality big. I don't know, but I do know that Buzz does not consider him as a big time player or he would be playing 30 plus minutes a game. And please don't start telling me it is conditioning or that Otule deserves those minutes. If that is so then he is not a quality big. Is that concept lost on you?

[WarriorInNYC]

Sorry, I love Gardner but how many people consider him a quality big. I don't know, but I do know that Buzz does not consider him as a big time player or he would be playing 30 plus minutes a game. And please don't start telling me it is conditioning or that Otule deserves those minutes. If that is so then he is not a quality big. Is that concept lost on you?

See Big East 6th man of year.

See:  http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/84865/marquette-key-returnee-davante-gardner

[The Equalizer]

See Big East 6th man of year.

See:  http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/84865/marquette-key-returnee-davante-gardner

I think coaches are going to dig out the game tapes of our first Syracuse game (where Gardner had a season high 26 points and attempted 13 FTs) to the second in the NCAA (where he only tallied 3 FTA) to compare effective vs. ineffective defenses.  If opposing coaches figure out how to bend on Gardner and give him his easy field goals, but not break by giving up 10, 13 or 15 FTA, it could be a long season for us. 

One of the tactics I think opposing coaches will use more in the coming season is to argue more vehemently that their player has defensive position on Gardner, and either Garder is initiating the contact, or the contact is incidental and should be a no-call.  I can't remember which game, but one of the late season games the anoucers were pointing this out.

[wadesworld]

I think coaches are going to dig out the game tapes of our first Syracuse game (where Gardner had a season high 26 points and attempted 13 FTs) to the second in the NCAA (where he only tallied 3 FTA) to compare effective vs. ineffective defenses.  If opposing coaches figure out how to bend on Gardner and give him his easy field goals, but not break by giving up 10, 13 or 15 FTA, it could be a long season for us. 

One of the tactics I think opposing coaches will use more in the coming season is to argue more vehemently that their player has defensive position on Gardner, and either Garder is initiating the contact, or the contact is incidental and should be a no-call.  I can't remember which game, but one of the late season games the anoucers were pointing this out.

Soooooo, you're saying that opposing coaches are going to game plan for Davante Gardner by arguing more with the refs?  Man, I hope that is what they come up with in their defensive game plans.

[keefe]

I think coaches are going to dig out the game tapes of our first Syracuse game (where Gardner had a season high 26 points and attempted 13 FTs) to the second in the NCAA (where he only tallied 3 FTA) to compare effective vs. ineffective defenses.  If opposing coaches figure out how to bend on Gardner and give him his easy field goals, but not break by giving up 10, 13 or 15 FTA, it could be a long season for us. 

One of the tactics I think opposing coaches will use more in the coming season is to argue more vehemently that their player has defensive position on Gardner, and either Garder is initiating the contact, or the contact is incidental and should be a no-call.   I can't remember which game, but one of the late season games the anoucers were pointing this out.

Certainly you must have some empiricism on this.

[onepost]

Sorry, I love Gardner but how many people consider him a quality big. I don't know, but I do know that Buzz does not consider him as a big time player or he would be playing 30 plus minutes a game. And please don't start telling me it is conditioning or that Otule deserves those minutes. If that is so then he is not a quality big. Is that concept lost on you?

You are a jackass. And the most ignorant poster in the history of Scoop ignorant posters.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Sounds like Looney could be a Bo Ellis type.  He could help elevate MU to the final four!  Too bad he doesn't want to stay in Milwaukee, as other posters wrote, he could be "big" in Milwaukee and after his playing days are done.  Playing in a far away city may not allow him to stand out much.

[brewcity77]

Sorry, I love Gardner but how many people consider him a quality big. I don't know, but I do know that Buzz does not consider him as a big time player or he would be playing 30 plus minutes a game. And please don't start telling me it is conditioning or that Otule deserves those minutes. If that is so then he is not a quality big. Is that concept lost on you?

This has to be one of the dumbest posts in the history of MUScoop. Congratulations, sir, that is truly an impressive feat.

[willie warrior]

This has to be one of the dumbest posts in the history of MUScoop. Congratulations, sir, that is truly an impressive feat.

Sorry Brew that I am not an expert on all things which you always profess to be. Your opinion always ranks well above everybody else--in your own mind. Isn't America great where we can all anonymously slam others on the internet?

[willie warrior]

You are a jackass. And the most ignorant poster in the history of Scoop ignorant posters.

here we go with the name calling!!

[The Equalizer]

Certainly you must have some empiricism on this.

Well, there was a downward trend in both FGA and FTA over the course conference play, which extended through the BET and NCAA.
--First five conference games, he averaged 9 FTA/game. Over the last five conference games, he averaged 4.5 FTA/game, and in the BET/NCAA it was only slightly better at 5.0 FTA/game. 
--His FGA was 6.4 over the first five Big East regular season games, 3.6 in the last five BE regular season games, and 3.2 in the BET & NCAA tournaments.

Combine this with the broadcast commentary toward the end of last season, and it seems like a plausible explanation. 

[wadesworld]

Well, there was a downward trend in both FGA and FTA over the course conference play, which extended through the BET and NCAA.
--First five conference games, he averaged 9 FTA/game. Over the last five conference games, he averaged 4.5 FTA/game, and in the BET/NCAA it was only slightly better at 5.0 FTA/game. 
--His FGA was 6.4 over the first five Big East regular season games, 3.6 in the last five BE regular season games, and 3.2 in the BET & NCAA tournaments.

Combine this with the broadcast commentary toward the end of last season, and it seems like a plausible explanation. 

I'm really confused about what you're trying to prove here.  So you're saying that by coaches arguing with refs that Davante is the one creating contact rather than the defensive player, Davante is thus attempting less field goals?  And as a result he is attempting less free throws?

How about this one...coaches picked up on flaws in his game and came up with a defensive game plan to exploit those?  To me, it was pretty obvious.  Double Davante hard on the catch and he struggles to make a quick move/decision with the ball, and thus is far less effective.  If I, as a casual fan, can pick up on this, I'm fairly certain guys like Jim Boeheim, Rick Pittino, JT3, etc. would be capable on picking up on this.  This would also explain the reduction in field goal attempts per game.

It's pretty obvious these coaches weren't taking shots away from Davante by arguing with the refs about who is initiating contact and who has position.

[The Equalizer]

I'm really confused about what you're trying to prove here.  So you're saying that by coaches arguing with refs that Davante is the one creating contact rather than the defensive player, Davante is thus attempting less field goals?  And as a result he is attempting less free throws?

Yes. 

I don't want to get into a debate about effectiveness of coaches arguing with the refs--

All I can do is observe that many coaches over the years have lobbied with the refs to get more calls to go their way, annoucers I've heard over the years have generally reported that such protests have some effect, and this season at least one of those annoucers specifically made a comment about opposing coaching protests about Gardner and it having some impact.

Again, I can't remember which game or who said it.  But it seems to a) make sense and b) is supported by the facts.

How about this one...coaches picked up on flaws in his game and came up with a defensive game plan to exploit those?  To me, it was pretty obvious.  Double Davante hard on the catch and he struggles to make a quick move/decision with the ball, and thus is far less effective.  If I, as a casual fan, can pick up on this, I'm fairly certain guys like Jim Boeheim, Rick Pittino, JT3, etc. would be capable on picking up on this.  This would also explain the reduction in field goal attempts per game.

Except that guys like Boehim, Pitino & JT3 (and really any coach) would have done this already as part of their normal game prep, don't you think?  Its not like these guys don't watch tape.  If you, as a casual fan, can pick it up, so can they, and they would have from the first game of the season.

It's pretty obvious these coaches weren't taking shots away from Davante by arguing with the refs about who is initiating contact and who has position.

Of course they were having an effect. Thats why they debate and yell at refs. Thats why the annoucers mention it when they see the effects its having. And those annoucers are right there at courtside--they hear what coaches say, they see how refs react. 

If anything, its obvous they are having some impact with their protests.

[brewcity77]

Sorry Brew that I am not an expert on all things which you always profess to be. Your opinion always ranks well above everybody else--in your own mind. Isn't America great where we can all anonymously slam others on the internet?

Expert on all things? Hardly. But not foolish enough to say Gardner isn't a quality big. He was the fifth most efficient player in the country offensively for his usage rate. He's top-100 in the country in offensive rebounding percentage. I'd also argue he's the best player in the country at drawing fouls and converting at the line (only Ella Ellis, a forward for Army, had a higher fouls drawn/40 stat with a higher FT%, but come on...he plays for Army).

I don't know what your definition of a quality big is, but he is arguably the best returning offensive big man in the country. If that's not quality, I guess no one outside of Wilt Chamberlain will meet your lofty expectations.