Cities suck, suburbs blow (i.e. chicago and burbs)

[buckchuckler]

Really? World class restaurants, theaters, concert venues, and ballparks within a stone's toss to name a few reasons.

They have these amazing things now, called cars.  Makes all of those points obsolete.  You can drive in from the burbs and experience all of them whenever you want. 

[GGGG]

Interesting because suburbanization has actually lead to the re-forestation of lands that were cleared for farming a few generations ago.

This is a very interesting read because the wife and I are currently debating a return to a more urban lifestyle.

[Galway Eagle]

They have these amazing things now, called cars.  Makes all of those points obsolete.  You can drive in from the burbs and experience all of them whenever you want. 

Suburbanites can't complain about traffic and then talk about how convenient it is to drive into the city to experience those things. No, if you are the ones causing the traffic in the first place that's not a valid argument.  

[Coleman]

And urban centers impose negative externalities on citizens outside their boundaries, such as greater pollution, crime, state funding for failing schools, and political corruption etc. It probably comes out close to a wash (but I'm confused as to how subsidized home ownership applies only to suburbs, how urban sprawl is an externality at all and how it only impacts urban residents, and what you mean by "devoured nature")

Sprawl (and all of these issues) impacts everyone, not only urban residents. But it wasn't a problem until post World War II period when the federal government began subsidizing home ownership for returning veterans. The point is that its not an "us vs. them" issue, there are costs incurred by suburban sprawl and ultimately all citizens will be paying those costs. Not to mention that big box stores and chain restaurants pay low wages and put independent owners out of business.

Cities are polluted, but are much more efficient (way less pollution per capita) than suburbs. think about the efficiency of 500 people living in a single high rise vs. 100 single family homes, and millions of people taking mass transit vs. each person driving to work in a car.

If you want to know what I mean by devoured nature, look at arial pictures of any metro area before World War II, and then look at the same area now on google maps.


This is actually a pretty objective look at it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crabgrass_Frontier:_The_Suburbanization_of_the_United_States

I read it in an urban history graduate seminar

[buckchuckler]

Really? I'm curious what suburb you're referring to.

I work in the suburbs and live in the city. I'm not saying I'd raise a family here, but I'm in my late 20s and the suburbs offer nothing of what the city offers.

Naperville.  Decent bars, great restaurants.  A lot more than big box stores and chain restaurants.  But what I meant was, if you want the amenities Chicago has to offer, you are about a half hour away.  But you don't have to live there and deal with preposterous taxes, miniscule living space, limited parking, etc. 

[buckchuckler]

Lincoln Park is a partial magnet school if you're in their area they have to accept you.  That's why when Cabrini Green was up they had some of the worst teens in the city going to school with the wealthiest city kids.  And ok so if my kids didn't get in to North Shore, Lane Tech, Lincoln Park, Walter Peyton, Jones college prep, Brooks College prep or Whitney Young then they likely weren't raised by me.  No i wouldn't send my kids to Simeon, but that's what catholic schools are for Fenwick, Loyola, St Ignatius to name a few easily accessible ones.  

Fenwick is in the burbs.  So is Loyola. 

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Sprawl (and all of these issues) impacts everyone, not only urban residents. But it wasn't a problem until post World War II period when the federal government began subsidizing home ownership for returning veterans. The point is that its not an "us vs. them" issue, there are costs incurred by suburban sprawl and ultimately all citizens will be paying those costs. Not to mention that big box stores and chain restaurants pay low wages and put independent owners out of business.

Cities are polluted, but are much more efficient (way less pollution per capita) than suburbs. think about the efficiency of 500 people living in a single high rise vs. 100 single family homes, and millions of people taking mass transit vs. each person driving to work in a car.

If you want to know what I mean by devoured nature, look at arial pictures of any metro area before World War II, and then look at the same area now on google maps.

Thanks for the history lesson, but your original contention was that city dwellers "subsidized" suburban living (thereby making it an "us v them" issue"). Yes, obviously there are costs imposed by any particular city layout, my point is merely that each side imposes negative externalities on the other and its misleading to contend that somehow Chicago is subsidizing those living in the burbs.

I won't get into your dispute with big box stores and environmental argument...

[Galway Eagle]

Fenwick is in the burbs.  So is Loyola.  

I know but I was working off of Warriorchick's earlier definition of the city.  But if it'd make you more comfortable Gordon Tech and St Benedict.  (Sorry I'm a north sider so Brother Rice and Marist aren't on my radar)   

[buckchuckler]

Suburbanites can't complain about traffic and then talk about how convenient it is to drive into the city to experience those things. No, if you are the ones causing the traffic in the first place that's not a valid argument.  

 

And when exactly did I complain about traffic?  But ok, traffic sucks and I don't want to drive.  Well, they have these other amazing things called trains.  They stop in just about every suburb and take you into the city no hassle no problem.  You can even sleep and drink on them! 

[Galway Eagle]

 

And when exactly did I complain about traffic?  But ok, traffic sucks and I don't want to drive.  Well, they have these other amazing things called trains.  They stop in just about every suburb and take you into the city no hassle no problem.  You can even sleep and drink on them! 

I did not say you I said suburbanites.  Warriorchick used Traffic an argument against the city. 

[MUEng92]

And does this also mean that Milwaukee and Rockford are suburbs of Chicago? 

Having grown up in Rockford, for the last 25 years in Wisconsin, I have answered the question of where I'm from with, "Illinois, not Chicago".  This normally softens the intial reaction of WI natives to me being from Illinois.  Please don't suggest that Rockford is a suburb now.

[Galway Eagle]

Having grown up in Rockford, for the last 25 years in Wisconsin, I have answered the question of where I'm from with, "Illinois, not Chicago".  This normally softens the intial reaction of WI natives to me being from Illinois.  Please don't suggest that Rockford is a suburb now.

I was just trying to point out how foolish that suggesting west dupage is an inner suburb is.  I don't actually believe Rockford is a suburb of chicago, but by the logic she used it pretty much would be. 

[kryza]

That's what my point was, suburban lovers seems to think that you're going to get mugged no matter where you go.  It's easy to stay away from the west side or certain areas on the south side.  

Ugh, are you guys really arguing suburbs vs city? Chicago is a Alpha+ global city (one of just 10) and we're all lucky to live so close to it. Some people like to be immersed in city culture while others like to experience from time to time, to each their own...

[buckchuckler]

I did not say you I said suburbanites.  Warriorchick used Traffic an argument against the city.  

Ok well, in any case traffic is a silly argument.  There is plenty of traffic in the city without the suburbanites, not to mention narrow streets and people on bikes taking up entire lanes.  There is also plenty of traffic in the suburbs and the way into the city.  Lots of people and poor road designs.  Traffic is a way of life in any metro area.  I drive a ton for work, many times the worst traffic I encounter is on 294, which does not head into the city at all.  

It is also just stupid to refer to DuPage and Kane counties as the boonies.  DuPage county has about the same population as Milwaukee county.  DuPage and Kane match the entire Milwaukee metro area.

[buckchuckler]

Ugh, are you guys really arguing suburbs vs city? Chicago is a Alpha+ global city (one of just 10) and we're all lucky to live so close to it. Some people like to be immersed in city culture while others like to experience from time to time, to each their own...

Completely agree.  Perfectly put.  Personally I love the city.  But I'm happy that when I go home, I head to the burbs.

[warriorchick]

I was just trying to point out how foolish that suggesting west dupage is an inner suburb is.  I don't actually believe Rockford is a suburb of chicago, but by the logic she used it pretty much would be. 

Okay, it's called "hyperbole".  What color should we use for that?   

[Galway Eagle]

Ok well, in any case traffic is a silly argument.  There is plenty of traffic in the city without the suburbanites, not to mention narrow streets and people on bikes taking up entire lanes.  There is also plenty of traffic in the suburbs and the way into the city.  Lots of people and poor road designs.  Traffic is a way of life in any metro area.  I drive a ton for work, many times the worst traffic I encounter is on 294, which does not head into the city at all. 

It is also just stupid to refer to DuPage and Kane counties as the boonies.  DuPage county has about the same population as Milwaukee county.  DuPage and Kane match the entire metro area.

Fact Checking:  Kane County population is 515,269 in 2010 Dupage is 923,222.  Chicago's is 8,711,000.  I'd say it's at least a little bit bigger.  Now Milwaukee City's Urban population is listed recently at 1,308,913.  Which means the city alone is considerably bigger than both Dupage and Kane counties. Sounds like the country to me.  

[warriorchick]

Completely agree.  Perfectly put.  Personally I love the city.  But I'm happy that when I go home, I head to the burbs.

And just think how crowded the city we be if all of us suburbanites tried to cram ourselves into it.  We are giving you citydwellers some space.  You're welcome.

[Galway Eagle]

And just think how crowded the city we be if all of us suburbanites tried to cram ourselves into it.  We are giving you citydwellers some space.  You're welcome.

I don't have a problem with those who wish to live there I could understand the appeal to certain people.  But what I don't get is why suburbanites get up in arms about city ordeals when it has no effect on them and judge the city portraying themselves as experts on issues like urban crime or traffic patterns. 

[buckchuckler]

As someone who attended CPS till he was 16 I can say you are probably just going off of a stereotype of how bad the schools are.  Lane Tech, Lincoln Park, North Shore Academy all can hold their own against the best of the schools in Illinois.  Horrendous crime is easily avoided by something called street smarts which you only get from living in the city.  Taxes are something that are going to happen no matter where you go.  Traffic is bad due to the people driving around commuting from the suburbs if you know your way around or use CTA you don't need to deal with it.  

Kinda curious, since those schools are so great, why didn't you finish at a cps school?

[Galway Eagle]

Kinda curious, since those schools are so great, why didn't you finish at a cps school?

divorce sent me to OPRF. 

[buckchuckler]

I don't have a problem with those who wish to live there I could understand the appeal to certain people.  But what I don't get is why suburbanites get up in arms about city ordeals when it has no effect on them and judge the city portraying themselves as experts on issues like urban crime or traffic patterns. 

Believe it or not, suburbanites contribute a lot to the city and many spend a great deal of time in the city, and much of the city, not just their neighborhoods.  Many are probably much more expert on those topics than a lot of people that have Chicago addresses.  The city of Chicago and every thing it does has an effect on the entire state.  Especially the collar counties.  The people that live in the suburbs definitely have a vested interest in the goings on in the city. As do all residents of Illinois. 

[Galway Eagle]

Believe it or not, suburbanites contribute a lot to the city and many spend a great deal of time in the city, and much of the city, not just their neighborhoods.  Many are probably much more expert on those topics than a lot of people that have Chicago addresses.  The city of Chicago and every thing it does has an effect on the entire state.  Especially the collar counties.  The people that live in the suburbs definitely have a vested interest in the goings on in the city. As do all residents of Illinois. 

I have a hard time believing that a person who drives into the city for sports games and work knows more about what areas to avoid that the people who grew up there.  But that's just a matter of opinion. 

[buckchuckler]

divorce sent me to OPRF. 

Well, I'm glad you survived your excursion to the suburbs.  Hopefully you received your inoculations, to protect you from the strange diseases us inbred hicks in the burbs have.   

[Galway Eagle]

Well, I'm glad you survived your excursion to the suburbs.  Hopefully you received your inoculations, to protect you from the strange diseases us inbred hicks in the burbs have.   

No remember Oak Park is in the city evidently the city now a days, luckily I didn't have to venture far out.