Wade vs. Butler game 2

[GGGG]

To each their own.  Personally, as a child of the 90s, I don't think quality basketball and physical play are mutually exclusive.  The NBA's rise as a global brand was built off of intense, physical basketball that got personal during the play-offs, and I guess I long for those days.  I'd love to see a freak like Lebron driving the lane like MJ or Isiah Thomas used to, knowing damn well a hit is coming from Patrick Ewing, Rodman, Malone, Alonzo Mourning, Barkley, Anthony Mason, Reggie Miller...  Or getting assaulted the way MJ and Shaq did, yet still making it look pretty or easy.

I think you are exaggerating history a bit here.  Was it more physical....I guess.  But you are making it out to be something more than it really was.

[Stringer Bellenson]

I think you are exaggerating history a bit here.  Was it more physical....I guess.  But you are making it out to be something more than it really was.

Maybe I am exaggerating a bit, but if I'm exaggerating the level of physicality in the bulls-pistons or bulls-knicks, or the "Jordan Rules" or "hack-a-Shaq" then surely those who are acting like today's Bulls are the dirtiest, most violent team around are either grossly over exagerating, or ignorant to what actual hard fouls look like.  That's what I was responding to initially.

 I'll save you the time of posting 200 youtube examples to remind you of the way it used to be relative to today's flopping era.  Shaq used to get mauled and had to deal with it because he was the biggest, most freakish guy on the court and just swatted guys off him like flies, even though they were mugging him; think if Lebron had to deal with that simply because he's bigger and stronger than everyone else.

The Piston's had an explicit rule of "No Lay-ups." (I'm sure many other teams did in the playoffs too).  If you came in the paint you were going down from a hit, unlike today where you're going down from the slightest contact in an effort to bamboozle the ref into calling a foul.  Jordan's quote from an interview a few months back around his birthday was that "if they played today, they'd be flagrant 2's."  In the not so distant past, today's flagrant 2's were regular fouls.  Am I or Jordan exaggerating with that assertion?

Maybe Jordan and Pippen whined after they got laid out, but at least it warranted flailing your arms and looking at the ref in disgust, unlike today...

[MUSF]

Maybe I am exaggerating a bit, but if I'm exaggerating the level of physicality in the bulls-pistons or bulls-knicks, or the "Jordan Rules" or "hack-a-Shaq" then surely those who are acting like today's Bulls are the dirtiest, most violent team around are either grossly over exagerating, or ignorant to what actual hard fouls look like.  That's what I was responding to initially.

 I'll save you the time of posting 200 youtube examples to remind you of the way it used to be relative to today's flopping era.  Shaq used to get mauled and had to deal with it because he was the biggest, most freakish guy on the court and just swatted guys off him like flies, even though they were mugging him; think if Lebron had to deal with that simply because he's bigger and stronger than everyone else.

The Piston's had an explicit rule of "No Lay-ups." (I'm sure many other teams did in the playoffs too).  If you came in the paint you were going down from a hit, unlike today where you're going down from the slightest contact in an effort to bamboozle the ref into calling a foul.  Jordan's quote from an interview a few months back around his birthday was that "if they played today, they'd be flagrant 2's."  In the not so distant past, today's flagrant 2's were regular fouls.  Am I or Jordan exaggerating with that assertion?

Maybe Jordan and Pippen whined after they got laid out, but at least it warranted flailing your arms and looking at the ref in disgust, unlike today...

Absolutely nobody in this thread has said, or implied that the Bulls are "the dirtiest or most violent team around". Keep torching those straw men.

Lebron does deal with physical play because he is bigger and stronger. See the Bulls v. Heat game that ended the Heat streak in the regular season. He doesn't get it as much as Shaq because he can hit free throws.

You and Jordan are both exaggerating. "In my day it was so much harder." You sound like a grumpy old man.

[Stringer Bellenson]

Absolutely nobody in this thread has said, or implied that the Bulls are "the dirtiest or most violent team around". Keep torching those straw men.

You and Jordan are both exaggerating. "In my day it was so much harder." You sound like a grumpy old man.

Yeah, but people on this thread, you included, were crying about the Bulls "clutching and grabbing, and hard fouls."  One person went even went as far that the Bulls' C-team they are trotting out was using "thuggery" against the big, bad defending champs.  That's why I asked if you were from France, because I find your notion of hard fouls to be comical.

If Jordan and I sound like grumpy old men, you guys sound like little girls.

Yup. That ”tough, physical defense” you are touting is really alot of clutching and grabbing, and hard fouls. That isn't good defense or good bball IMO.

I don't find flopping and theatrics every time there's contact to be good basketball. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

This series, another example of why the NCAA is a crapshoot.  Miami loses game 1, three straight since then.  Can't have an off day in the NCAAs, even if you are the better team.

[mr.MUskie]

Does anyone have a picture of Wade walking through the tunnel at the UC tonight?  They showed him on tv walking with an assistant/bodyguard, wearing a polka dot suit with super tight pants that were about 8 inches too short.  If that's the new style, I'll stay unstylish, thanks.

Never mind, found it.





http://www.businessinsider.com/dwyane-wade-wore-a-polka-dot-suit-with-capris-to-tonights-playoff-game-2013-5

[MUSF]

BTW, if I am truly the first person to call out the Bulls for their strategy in this series, I should be getting recruiting calls from ESPN shortly. Plenty of their talking heads were jumping all up in my bandwagon today.

[Lennys Tap]

This series, another example of why the NCAA is a crapshoot.  Miami loses game 1, three straight since then.  Can't have an off day in the NCAAs, even if you are the better team.

Do you honestly believe the Bulls would have won game 1 if it had been an elimination game? Please. The Heat didn't show any sense of urgency because there was no need to.

[NavinRJohnson]

Do you honestly believe the Bulls would have won game 1 if it had been an elimination game? Please. The Heat didn't show any sense of urgency because there was no need to.

This is true, and the Heat are showing that now. At the same time, one game is one game in the NCAA, and if you have a bad night, you're toast.

[GGGG]

Maybe I am exaggerating a bit, but if I'm exaggerating the level of physicality in the bulls-pistons or bulls-knicks, or the "Jordan Rules" or "hack-a-Shaq" then surely those who are acting like today's Bulls are the dirtiest, most violent team around are either grossly over exagerating, or ignorant to what actual hard fouls look like.  That's what I was responding to initially.

 I'll save you the time of posting 200 youtube examples to remind you of the way it used to be relative to today's flopping era.  Shaq used to get mauled and had to deal with it because he was the biggest, most freakish guy on the court and just swatted guys off him like flies, even though they were mugging him; think if Lebron had to deal with that simply because he's bigger and stronger than everyone else.

The Piston's had an explicit rule of "No Lay-ups." (I'm sure many other teams did in the playoffs too).  If you came in the paint you were going down from a hit, unlike today where you're going down from the slightest contact in an effort to bamboozle the ref into calling a foul.  Jordan's quote from an interview a few months back around his birthday was that "if they played today, they'd be flagrant 2's."  In the not so distant past, today's flagrant 2's were regular fouls.  Am I or Jordan exaggerating with that assertion?

Yes.  You are both exaggerating.  MJ is just doing what he normally does and inflates his own ego.  They weren't today's flagrant 2s.

And outside of MJ, those were really sh*tty years for the NBA because of that style of play.  You may not like the whining and the flailing around of arms, but its because it is a much more open and enjoyable game now.

If Jordan and I sound like grumpy old men, you guys sound like little girls.

My God really???  Are you 13 years old??  Are you questioning people's manhood now???  

[JD]

Does anyone have a picture of Wade walking through the tunnel at the UC tonight?  They showed him on tv walking with an assistant/bodyguard, wearing a polka dot suit with super tight pants that were about 8 inches too short.  If that's the new style, I'll stay unstylish, thanks.

Never mind, found it.





http://www.businessinsider.com/dwyane-wade-wore-a-polka-dot-suit-with-capris-to-tonights-playoff-game-2013-5

Is wade coming out?  (no teal necessary

[ChicosBailBonds]

Do you honestly believe the Bulls would have won game 1 if it had been an elimination game? Please. The Heat didn't show any sense of urgency because there was no need to.

Are you suggesting the Heat didn't try to win the game?  Are you also suggesting that in other examples where a team has lost a game or two in a 7 game series that it happens, quite frequently....point remains, NCAA is a crapshoot and it isn't for a longer series.  

One bad game in the NCAA...bye bye.  Doesn't matter if you are the better team, which is why the best team often doesn't win the tournament.

[GGGG]

Are you suggesting the Heat didn't try to win the game?

I am suggesting that Miami didn't have the urgency and sharpness after coming off a crappy Milwaukee series and a week off. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Are you suggesting the Heat didn't try to win the game?  Are you also suggesting that in other examples where a team has lost a game or two in a 7 game series that it happens, quite frequently....point remains, NCAA is a crapshoot and it isn't for a longer series.  

One bad game in the NCAA...bye bye.  Doesn't matter if you are the better team, which is why the best team often doesn't win the tournament.

I don't believe it! Chicos is faking ignorance in an attempt to start a message board fight!

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am suggesting that Miami didn't have the urgency and sharpness after coming off a crappy Milwaukee series and a week off. 

That may be true and in a 7 game series, whether you don't have the same urgency or whether you just have a bad shooting day, you can recover.  In the NCAAs, you cannot.  Crapshoot.

[GGGG]

That may be true and in a 7 game series, whether you don't have the same urgency or whether you just have a bad shooting day, you can recover.  In the NCAAs, you cannot.  Crapshoot.

You won't get a week in between opponents in the NCAA tournament.  

[jmayer1]

The best regular season team doesn't win the championship every time in any league. Of course, nobody calls the Super Bowl or Word Series a crapshoot.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5075

According to that article (there's a variety of other articles that have similar numbers):

NBA - 50%
NCAAB - 33%
MLB - 29%
NFL - 24%

[Lennys Tap]

In the last 25 years, the NCAA tournament has been won by a:

#1 seed -17 times
  2 seed - 3  times
  3 seed - 4  times
  4 seed - 1  time
5-16 seed - 0 times

In addition, a #16 seed has never beaten a #1 seed in God knows how many tries. If this is a crapshoot, the dice are loaded.

[Lennys Tap]

The best regular season team doesn't win the championship every time in any league. Of course, nobody calls the Super Bowl or Word Series a crapshoot.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5075

According to that article (there's a variety of other articles that have similar numbers):

NBA - 50%
NCAAB - 33%
MLB - 29%
NFL - 24%

And since the inception of the President's Trophy (awarded to the best regular season NHL team), that team has won Lord Stanley's Cup a whopping 7 times in 26 tries (just under 27%). Crapshoots everywhere you look.

[jmayer1]

And since the inception of the President's Trophy (awarded to the best regular season NHL team), that team has won Lord Stanley's Cup a whopping 7 times in 26 tries (just under 27%). Crapshoots everywhere you look.

And an 8 seed won last year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

In the last 25 years, the NCAA tournament has been won by a:

#1 seed -17 times
  2 seed - 3  times
  3 seed - 4  times
  4 seed - 1  time
5-16 seed - 0 times

In addition, a #16 seed has never beaten a #1 seed in God knows how many tries. If this is a crapshoot, the dice are loaded.

Last I checked, a #1 seed is shared by 4 teams, same for a #2 seed, and a number 3 seed, etc, etc.

So being a number 1 seed should mean you are one of the top 4 teams, not necessarily the best team.  Being a 2 seed would mean you are one of the best 8 teams, not the 2nd best team.  So on and so forth.

Best team usually doesn't win, and yes it is crapshoot.  It isn't called the world's biggest crapshoot for nothing, because that's exactly what it is.


If you played the NBA playoffs 10 times this year how many different champions would emerge?  2?

If you played the NCAA tournament 10 times, how many different tournament champions would emerge?  7?  8?  9?




http://www.sfexaminer.com/sports/college/2013/03/ncaa-tournament-built-gambling-not-finding-best-team

[Lennys Tap]

Last I checked, a #1 seed is shared by 4 teams, same for a #2 seed, and a number 3 seed, etc, etc.

Yes, but 68 teams play for the NCAA championship. In the professional sports it's 16 or less.

[Lennys Tap]

If you played the NBA playoffs 10 times this year how many different champions would emerge?  2?

If you played the NCAA tournament 10 times, how many different tournament champions would emerge?  7?  8?  9?

This year you could hold the NBA playoffs 10 times and Miami would win it all 10 times. When there's not a head and shoulders top team maybe you get 3 or 4 (out of 16).

This year's NCAA, Louisville probably wins it 5 or 6 times out of 10, Michigan twice, Kansas and Syracuse once. That's 4 (maybe 5) out of 64. Last year's Kentucky team, UNLV in maybe 91, IU in 76, most of those Wooden teams and too many others to mention win 9 or 10 times out of 10.

[jmayer1]

Yep, the NCAA tourney is the biggest crapshoot in major sports!!.....except for the MLB, NFL, and NHL playoffs which are all statiscally bigger crapshoots....doh.

[Lennys Tap]

And an 8 seed won last year.
[/quote

Now that's a crapshoot!]