Vander to the NBA draft

[garbier1]

Homer here.
Love Vander...his improvement and maturity one of the great stories in Marquette history..not to mention sweet 16, sweet 16, and elite 8 in his three years. Don't see that he would be drafted this year, so don't see him leaving. but if he did and did, it would be just one more surprise in a the greatest year of surprises since I started doing games in 1989.

[MU82]

A typically meandering thread that typically led back to Chicos' love of Crean. Ya gotta love our consistency here on Scoop!

As for the original purpose of this thread ...

Few of us are arguing about whether Vander Blue is NBA ready. He came out of high school as one of the most highly touted Marquette recruits since Al's days and yet he wasn't NCAA ready. And the transition to the NBA is similarly difficult; some would say even more difficult. Of course he isn't ready! Lots of guys who went on to have very good NBA careers struggled out of the gate.

Yes, Vander could use another year of college. He needs to increase his shooting range, needs to prove he can play at least some PG, needs improvement in pretty much every area.

Having said all that, none of it matters if Vander himself thinks he is ready. Every single year, 5, 10, 15 guys -- maybe more -- leave college who logically should have stayed. Many go undrafted and are never heard from again. Some go in the second round, get a chance but can't stick because second-rounders don't have guaranteed contracts and thus don't get the same leash that first-round draft picks get. Illinois' Frank Williams was a very good college player who couldn't play in the NBA. Period. But he did get drafted near the end of the first round and, because of that, he was able to collect a payday for three years. Had he been a second-rounder, he might not have survived training camp. Lazar Hayward looks to be another example of that exact same scenario. DJO, at least as good a college player as Vander, was drafted in the second round and now he's in basketball Siberia.

As for those guaranteeing that he will or won't be drafted either this year or next ... that's all just noise. Do any of us know how many European players will be in this draft? Do any of us even know how many NCAA players will be in this draft, given that it's still more than a week before the deadline for underclassmen to declare? Will there be a glut of guards this year? Are GMs especially keen on filling needs for size this year? Come on, folks, we don't operate in a vacuum here. We know Vander but we don't have great knowledge about so many other variables.

My bottom line on Vander:

1. I hope Vander stays. Heck of a college player who probably will get better and help us have a great season in 2013-14.

2. I think he'd be wise to stay and improve. If he's good enough, no matter how much better next year's draft supposedly will be, he'll get a chance.

3. I'm quite sure Vander doesn't care what I think or what any other Scooper thinks. He might not even care what most NBA draft experts think or what Buzz thinks or what any external voice says. All that matters in the end is what he thinks. He's a confident enough guy that he repeatedly took game-deciding shots in our biggest games. I'm guessing he's also confident enough to think he will succeed in the NBA no matter what anybody says.

4. I don't know if he'll be drafted and neither do you. Neither does Vander, but that might not stop him from leaving.

5. If he leaves, we'll wonder how we'll replace him. But we will replace him and have a good season in 2013-14. Maybe even a great season.

[Goose]

Homer

I have heard you say you  pull hard for Vander and happy to see your post. He really did make unreal improvement and became a great leader. Hope you right on him staying. If I had to bet I would say he is gone. Stay or leave I will keep closer eye on Blue than any MU player since Wade. He has chance for great senior year and I believe a long NBA career.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

Selfishly I want to see Blue back, but here are a few things to consider that could make entering the draft a better decision.

1) What if he gets injured?

2) What if he or the team doesn't perform to expectations, in the season or in the tourney, and his stock is impacted because of it? (very unlikely, and no one would be to blame but him or the team)

3) Next year's draft is looking a lot stronger, which could lower his stock in favor of higher ranked players.

[ChicosBailBonds]

A typically meandering thread that typically led back to Chicos' love of Crean. Ya gotta love our consistency here on Scoop!

Let me fix it for you.

The thread was fine, 90 posts strong and then someone, who still hasn't gotten over what happened 5 years ago, introduced him into the thread.  Then another at post 92.  Then another at post 93...all page 4.  Go after them if you don't like it.  I didn't mention a word of it until page 5....people read what they want to read.  It's kind of funny.

[Aughnanure]

Selfishly I want to see Blue back, but here are a few things to consider that could make entering the draft a better decision.

1) What if he gets injured?

2) What if he or the team doesn't perform to expectations, in the season or in the tourney, and his stock is impacted because of it? (very unlikely, and no one would be to blame but him or the team)

3) Next year's draft is looking a lot stronger, which could lower his stock in favor of higher ranked players.

1. Seriously injured? Could get an extra year of eligibility. The risk of coming out too early and being a 2nd rounder, or even worse, undrafted is pretty large as well. I think Vander needs to have a team willing to let him transition. A 2nd rounder would be scary and he would probably have a better shot through going undrafted.

2. Partly his fault then. I think he think's that he's better than that to let that happen. Also, Buzz Williams will be coaching.

3. Was he ever really going to compete with the top of either year's draft?

[brewcity77]

1. Seriously injured? Could get an extra year of eligibility. The risk of coming out too early and being a 2nd rounder, or even worse, undrafted is pretty large as well. I think Vander needs to have a team willing to let him transition. A 2nd rounder would be scary and he would probably have a better shot through going undrafted.

We're all Wesley Matthews fans, but this whole "better off undrafted" argument is just getting silly. I'm not going to run the numbers for the hundreds of NBA players, but I will bet anything there are more guys in the league that were second round picks than undrafted and there is a much higher percentage of second round picks still in the league than college players that went undrafted.

Saying you're better off going undrafted is like saying you have a better chance of attending the royal wedding as a crasher than you do with an invitation. Yes, it worked for Matthews, but that is by and large the exception and not the rule.

[jesmu84]

Let me fix it for you.

The thread was fine, 90 posts strong and then someone, who still hasn't gotten over what happened 5 years ago, introduced him into the thread.  Then another at post 92.  Then another at post 93...all page 4.  Go after them if you don't like it.  I didn't mention a word of it until page 5....people read what they want to read.  It's kind of funny.

yup. you're absolutely right. but you didn't have to respond to them. you could have just let it go, but you chose to make an argument out of it. yes, those posters could also have chosen not to post what they did, but you were the one who retaliated and continued.

[MisterJaylenBrownMU]

3) Next year's draft is looking a lot stronger, which could lower his stock in favor of higher ranked players.

Not sure I agree with this.  (Note: the next few paragraphs are subject to change if players declare early and depending on the source, obviously.)

If Vander decided to declare this year and if his goal was just to get drafted, his second round competition would be guys like Brandon Paul (projected at #54 overall by Draft Express), Michael Snaer (#51), and C.J. Wilcox (#46)... not to mention guys projected to go undrafted like Brandon Triche and Seth Curry. And those are just the 2nd rounders. Is that really an easier group of SGs to get drafted out of than the 2014 class?

Draft express has Vander projected at #21 overall in 2014, with IMO a comparatively weak SG class below him (I like Tim Hardaway Jr., but Vander shouldn't be too scared of the rest...Jerian Grant from Notre Dame, two international players from Poland and Spain, Spencer Dinwiddie from Colorado, Ricky Ledo from Providence, and Jordan McRae from Tennessee). And the guys projected ahead of him in the first round aren't superstars: Rasheed Sulaimon (incoming frosh at Duke), P.J. Hairston (UNC), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (awesome name...Georgia), Gary Harris (MSU), Aaron Harrison (HS senior), and a few international players I've never heard of.

If I'm a SG and comparing the draft classes, I'd much rather be in the 2014 class.

[shoothoops]

It makes sense that this thread is started by someone with just three posts.

+1

It never ceases to amaze me that people don't see that, and then stop reading.  Page after page goes by of all kinds of posts.  It works every time.  I stopped reading this thread after this post.

[wrk592]

+1

It never ceases to amaze me that people don't see that, and then stop reading.  Page after page goes by of all kinds of posts.  It works every time.  I stopped reading this thread after this post.

[MDMU04]

And I can't wait to message you after Vander declares with a picture of my middle finger next to my hard dick

Is it me or did it just get weird in here?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Homer here.
Love Vander...his improvement and maturity one of the great stories in Marquette history..not to mention sweet 16, sweet 16, and elite 8 in his three years. Don't see that he would be drafted this year, so don't see him leaving. but if he did and did, it would be just one more surprise in a the greatest year of surprises since I started doing games in 1989.

Homer - Can you tell me if Buzz got the nets after the Syracuse loss for our Elite Eight display case?

[Eldon]

I suppose you could argue that someone with only three posts should be taken MORE seriously than someone with a bunch.  Why?  Well, couldn't it be that the information is so valuable, so important and reliable that someone who usually only lurks in the shadows on Scoop actually thought it appropriate to actually get an account and make a post?

Not sure that # of posts makes a difference either way.  Seems too ad hominem an attack for me.  Besides, if you're looking for someone's "scoopness," date registered seems like a better measure.

[mr.MUskie]

Is it me or did it just get weird in here?

Thanks for saving that quote before it got deleted.

[real chili 83]

Boom goes the ban hammer.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Is it me or did it just get weird in here?

We now know for sure that wrk592 is NOT Chicos. Impossible.

[JakeBarnes]

Is it me or did it just get weird in here?

If I've learned anything from Brent Farva, it's that it is only weird if you aren't wearing your Crocs when you take that sort of picture.

[Galway Eagle]

Vander needs to watch this episode of Fresh Prince specifically at the 21:15 mark.  I think it'd give him some advice as to why he should stay. 

http://pollystreaming.com/The-Fresh-Prince-of-Bel-Air-My-Brother8217s-Keeper-Episode-39-Season-2_v3188

[GGGG]

Vander needs to watch this episode of Fresh Prince specifically at the 21:15 mark.  I think it'd give him some advice as to why he should stay. 

http://pollystreaming.com/The-Fresh-Prince-of-Bel-Air-My-Brother8217s-Keeper-Episode-39-Season-2_v3188

Time to turn off the internet.  Our work here is done.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

We now know for sure that wrk592 is NOT Chicos. Impossible.

lmfao.

[wrk5923]

I love how Paint Touches and Anonymous Eagle aren't giving me any credit for breaking this story.

[MU B2002]

We now know for sure that wrk592 is NOT Chicos. .

And with a millisecond of "research" it is pretty easy to verify he is a student.

[wrk5923]

And with a millisecond of "research" it is pretty easy to verify he is a student.

congrats on 1800 !

[mu03eng]

And with a millisecond of "research" it is pretty easy to verify he is a student.

And terrible at rigging elections