Game of Thrones fans here?

[muwarrior69]

If Bran is the Night King:

So whose consciousness was in the Night King before Bran became the 3-eyed raven?

Was not Bran after becoming the 3-eyed raven pursued by the army of the dead only to be saved by Hodor holding the door?

What motivation does Bran have to allow the army of the dead to kill off all the living including his siblings.

Is it Bran or the 3-eyed-raven who is the Night King?

Just trying to make sense of all this.

[MU82]

Maybe Bran is the Sun King, the one the Beatles sang about.

[MUBurrow]

If Bran is the Night King:
So whose consciousness was in the Night King before Bran became the 3-eyed raven?
Was not Bran after becoming the 3-eyed raven pursued by the army of the dead only to be saved by Hodor holding the door?
What motivation does Bran have to allow the army of the dead to kill off all the living including his siblings.
Is it Bran or the 3-eyed-raven who is the Night King?
Just trying to make sense of all this.

I'm certainly not smart enough to track all the ins and outs, but Bran's ability to go back in time and interact (yelling to Ned during the first Lyanna flashback) could explain a lot here. I do think that there's a disconnect between the Night King's origin story in the books vs the show.

In the show, the Children create the first Walker (who is also the Night King?) with magic and dragonglass to defend them against the First Men. That first Walker could have some connection to a time-traveling Bran, or at least the Stark family (maybe a Stark ancestor that had similar powers to Bran's, which enables them to interact?).

In the books, as I understand it, the Night King is a fallen Lord Commander of the Night's Watch who fell in love with a White Walker woman. So presumably in the book canon, the Night King and the first Walker are two different individuals? I do think there's a connection between Bran and the Night King, but I think its born out of a connection between the origin relationship between the White Walkers (and specifically the Night King) and the humans, and the show just hasn't given us enough info on that yet. That's why I hope the last season slows down a bit now that all that pesky plot is behind us, and focuses on the Walkers as another faction in the GoT universe, with their own rational goals and intentionality. Not only would it clear up what is a really interesting plotline, but it makes them a lot more interesting than if they're just a bloodthirsty zombie horde - e.g., what does the Night King actually want?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If Bran is the Night King:

So whose consciousness was in the Night King before Bran became the 3-eyed raven?

Was not Bran after becoming the 3-eyed raven pursued by the army of the dead only to be saved by Hodor holding the door?

What motivation does Bran have to allow the army of the dead to kill off all the living including his siblings.

Is it Bran or the 3-eyed-raven who is the Night King?

Just trying to make sense of all this.

The idea is that Bran went back in time and "warged" into the night king in an attempt to stop him. Eventually he became lost in the night king which can happen when you stay too long.  So he lost any sense of loyalty to self, family,  or the living. So Bran has been the night king all along... He just hasn't time travelled back yet.

It's an interesting theory.  I haven't bought into it fully yet. I'd be kind of disappointed because time travel is rarely ever done well.

[forgetful]

If Bran is the Night King:

So whose consciousness was in the Night King before Bran became the 3-eyed raven?

Was not Bran after becoming the 3-eyed raven pursued by the army of the dead only to be saved by Hodor holding the door?

What motivation does Bran have to allow the army of the dead to kill off all the living including his siblings.

Is it Bran or the 3-eyed-raven who is the Night King?

Just trying to make sense of all this.

One of the theories is that Bran is tied to all the prior Brandon Starks.  Part of that stems from statements by Old Nan, where she mentions that all the Brans are the same to her. 

Along those same lines, it is thought that the Night King was a Brandon Stark, who was turned by the children of the forest. So, there is a tie throughout history between all the Brandon's and the Night King. 

As for differences between the books and the show.  I'm not sure that there are any.  There are stories of the Night King that differ, but they are legends.  The actual origin of the Night King, and if it is the same thing as the Great Other (leader of the white walkers) is unknown.  Different legends by different groups.

GRRM said that ties between the "Great Other"/Night King and the children of the forest (e.g. if they created them as a weapon) would be resolved in later books. 

[MU82]

I'm certainly not smart enough to track all the ins and outs, but Bran's ability to go back in time and interact (yelling to Ned during the first Lyanna flashback) could explain a lot here. I do think that there's a disconnect between the Night King's origin story in the books vs the show.

In the show, the Children create the first Walker (who is also the Night King?) with magic and dragonglass to defend them against the First Men. That first Walker could have some connection to a time-traveling Bran, or at least the Stark family (maybe a Stark ancestor that had similar powers to Bran's, which enables them to interact?).

In the books, as I understand it, the Night King is a fallen Lord Commander of the Night's Watch who fell in love with a White Walker woman. So presumably in the book canon, the Night King and the first Walker are two different individuals? I do think there's a connection between Bran and the Night King, but I think its born out of a connection between the origin relationship between the White Walkers (and specifically the Night King) and the humans, and the show just hasn't given us enough info on that yet. That's why I hope the last season slows down a bit now that all that pesky plot is behind us, and focuses on the Walkers as another faction in the GoT universe, with their own rational goals and intentionality. Not only would it clear up what is a really interesting plotline, but it makes them a lot more interesting than if they're just a bloodthirsty zombie horde - e.g., what does the Night King actually want?

I like it. Probably spending half of each of 2-3 episodes could clear a lot up and would be extremely interesting.

[mu03eng]

So are you guys saying that GoT is going to boil down to a series of causal loops? Fun.

[brewcity77]

I mean, who knows, but the director of the season finale seems to think that's unlikely. Also, wouldn't Jamie be next in the Lannister line?

Not if Arya killed him and took his face. I'm thinking that's how the Valonqar prophecy is fulfilled, Cersei murdered by younger brother Jamie, except it's actually Arya wearing dead Jamie's face.

[Pakuni]

Not if Arya killed him and took his face. I'm thinking that's how the Valonqar prophecy is fulfilled, Cersei murdered by younger brother Jamie, except it's actually Arya wearing dead Jamie's face.

But if's it's Arya in disguise, then it's not really Jamie .... and thus doesn't fulfill the prophecy that Cerseii would be killed by a younger brother.
Also, doesn't the prophecy say Cersei would be strangled to death? Arya doesn't seem the strangling type, and strangling is a passionate, inmate act not in character with her distant, calm assassin demeanor.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

But if's it's Arya in disguise, then it's not really Jamie .... and thus doesn't fulfill the prophecy that Cerseii would be killed by a younger brother.
Also, doesn't the prophecy say Cersei would be strangled to death? Arya doesn't seem the strangling type, and strangling is a passionate, inmate act not in character with her distant, calm assassin demeanor.

Not saying I think Brew is right,  but prophicies being misinterpreted is a cornerstone in fantasy storytelling. Arya wearing Jaimie's face would totally count. And Arya isnt above a little torture (See Meryn Trant). I could see her strangling somebody.

[brewcity77]

The prophecy says “When your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.” I really think this does point to her not carrying to term. Three children are promised and three she has had. Losing a fourth via miscarriage could put her over the edge. If Arya/Jamie arrived at that moment, I could easily see a heartbroken Cersei throwing herself into Jamie's arms, only for him to choke her to death before removing the face to see Arya underneath.

As TAMU mentioned, prophecies can be misinterpreted. She could just as easily be choked by a rope, pillow, or the inability to breathe through a slashed throat (ala Littlefinger). Even Missandei's recent comment about how the High Valyrian translation of Azor Ahai reincarnated uses a gender-neutral pronoun, so it could be the Prince or Princess who was Promised, shows that ASOIAF acknowledges the misinterpretations of prophecies within its own storylines.

Here's a good article I just found that goes into some more detail about why Cersei may not be long for this show.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/game-of-thrones-cersei-pregnant-miscarriage-season-7-episode-5-eastwatch

[chapman]

As tired / fan-serviced in as it would be, I could see some Cleganebowl action removing the Mountain bodyguard presence next time Jaime sees Cersei. 

I'm also fully expecting Jaime to get to Winterfell eventually, apologize for crippling Bran, and getting the creepy/cheesy "it's ok, it was meant to happen, so sayeth the Raven" dialogue from Bran.

[brewcity77]

Re-reading the first book...man there are some moments that really are just making me chuckle. Watching how Littlefinger essentially started the entire War of the Five Kings by blaming Tyrion for owning the dagger used in the assassination attempt on Bran, followed by the moment Cat stands up and calls to all her bannermen in the inn before Tyrion's arrest. Or Jamie throwing Bran out the window. Listening to whiny Viserys as he goes on and on about how Khal Drogo owes him an army.

GRRM is really a great writer. Fascinating stuff to re-read, and so well planned out.

[chapman]

Re-reading the first book...man there are some moments that really are just making me chuckle. Watching how Littlefinger essentially started the entire War of the Five Kings by blaming Tyrion for owning the dagger used in the assassination attempt on Bran, followed by the moment Cat stands up and calls to all her bannermen in the inn before Tyrion's arrest. Or Jamie throwing Bran out the window. Listening to whiny Viserys as he goes on and on about how Khal Drogo owes him an army.

GRRM is really a great writer. Fascinating stuff to re-read, and so well planned out.

I remember the Dorne, the Iron Islands, and Brienne in the Riverlands being rough on the first read, and much, much better the second time when you're looking for a few things and read into some theories.

If you didn't try it earlier, highly recommend the combined A Feast For Crows and A Dance With Dragons combined reading guides.  I did the one from Boiled Leather, but there's also a newer one called A Feast With Dragons.  Much more enjoyable than reading through AFFC then picking up ADWD.

[Stronghold]

Avid show watcher and fantasy fan in general. Should I read the books even though the show is this far along?

[brewcity77]

Avid show watcher and fantasy fan in general. Should I read the books even though the show is this far along?

I would. I actually am really enjoying another read through knowing what I know now. It gives a greater depth and character insight than the shows ever could.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Avid show watcher and fantasy fan in general. Should I read the books even though the show is this far along?

absolutely

[forgetful]

November 2018.  Season 8 will be here.

[Galway Eagle]

November 2018.  Season 8 will be here.

A year and two months beats a year and at least four months.

[B. McBannerson]

November 2018.  Season 8 will be here.

2019 highly probable and most likely.

[jesmu84]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/2-major-laws-fiction-that-are-screwing-game-thrones/

I think I agree with this

[forgetful]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/2-major-laws-fiction-that-are-screwing-game-thrones/

I think I agree with this

Some of this is due to the need to restrict the total number of characters in the show.  In the books there are countless additional major characters that were never even introduced to the show.  A few examples.

Dorne plays a much bigger role and the characters in Dorne are major players.
Young Griff
Lady Stoneheart
Victarion

and many others.

The books set up a lot of different arcs that may involve "main characters", the show distills this down to the ones that are most important.  That by default limits the number of deaths of main characters to those whose deaths will have important meanings, e.g. all the dead Starks. 

[CreightonWarrior]

I am predicting that one of the Bran reveals next year is that he was in King Aerys II's head and was the reason he went mad.

[brewcity77]

I am predicting that one of the Bran reveals next year is that he was in King Aerys II's head and was the reason he went mad.

Heard that theory quite a few times, but there's two holes I see. First, the White Walkers weren't there during Robert's Rebellion, so who is Bran telling him to burn. Second, Aerys II Targaryean had no dragons, so what would he be expected to burn them with?

[jesmu84]

Heard that theory quite a few times, but there's two holes I see. First, the White Walkers weren't there during Robert's Rebellion, so who is Bran telling him to burn. Second, Aerys II Targaryean had no dragons, so what would he be expected to burn them with?

There were white walkers in the north, just far fewer at that time

Wildfire