Game of Thrones fans here?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The writing this season is sub par, and the entire story is rushed. 

You don't have to like this season just because its GOT.

You could literally drive a mac truck through some of these plot holes.

The entire IDEA behind GRRM's series to subvert fantasy tropes, yet this entire season is wrought with them.

I like this season because it has been awesome. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Right, and that is really the problem.

Did Sansa forget who Littlefinger is and what he does ALL THE TIME?  Did Arya totally forget her past where she served Tywin Lannister wine as his cupbearer?  How did Tyrion go from the smartest guy in the books to being wrong about pretty much everything?  Catch a wight is a stupid plot on its face.  Why not just find a criminal and execute him... toss him in a cell and wait for him to turn?  Why doesn't Drogon turn his head and nuke the Night's King with Dragonfire after he sees Viserion get hit...  better yet, why do none of the dragons nuke the Night's King?  Why don't our heroes chop the ice around them to prevent the wights from just waiting for it to freeze?  This was just off the top of my head this morning.

I can totally forgive the time travelling since its a TV show and the story must move forward, but there are just so many logical inconsistencies that are very off putting.

And the gold had already arrived in King's Landing.  I think either Jamie or Randyll Tarly mentions it in the episode that the battle took place.

Did Sansa forget who Littlefinger is and what he does ALL THE TIME?  Did Arya totally forget her past where she served Tywin Lannister wine as his cupbearer?  Why don't you wait to see how this particular story line plays out?

How did Tyrion go from the smartest guy in the books to being wrong about pretty much everything?  Do intelligent people not make mistakes or have bad stretches of judgment?  Maybe it seems convenient but I don't think it's completely absurd.   

Catch a wight is a stupid plot on its face.  Why not just find a criminal and execute him... toss him in a cell and wait for him to turn?  As mentioned, it doesn't work that way.

Why doesn't Drogon turn his head and nuke the Night's King with Dragonfire after he sees Viserion get hit...  better yet, why do none of the dragons nuke the Night's King?  I'm not sure.  Maybe Dany was so stunned by what happened she didn't want to risk losing any more of her children and preferred to get the hell out of there.  I'd have to watch that sequence again. 

Why don't our heroes chop the ice around them to prevent the wights from just waiting for it to freeze? Fair point.  I'd have to watch again to see if I was missing something.  As has been pointed out, the Night King could likely have just froze it again but may have been waiting for the dragons to arrive. 

[Jockey]

I like this season because it has been awesome.

+1000

[Pakuni]

Why don't our heroes chop the ice around them to prevent the wights from just waiting for it to freeze? Fair point.  I'd have to watch again to see if I was missing something.  As has been pointed out, the Night King could likely have just froze it again but may have been waiting for the dragons to arrive. 

I think it's very likely that it was a trap to capture a dragon.
Check out this screenshot of the Walkers waiting for the lake to freeze (i.e. the dragons to show up). Is it coincidence that they brought three large spears with them?

[Galway Eagle]

I think it's very likely that it was a trap to capture a dragon.
Check out this screenshot of the Walkers waiting for the lake to freeze (i.e. the dragons to show up). Is it coincidence that they brought three large spears with them?

Of course when they saw sam in the earlier season they were carrying those massive spears as well. Unless they were setting traps for dragons that time to

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I think it's very likely that it was a trap to capture a dragon.
Check out this screenshot of the Walkers waiting for the lake to freeze (i.e. the dragons to show up). Is it coincidence that they brought three large spears with them?

Very nice catch. Of course, I can't say I recall if it is different than normal but it seems to be unlikely to be coincidence.

[Hards Alumni]

Oh horsecrap.  If you don't think this season has strayed from the core of the series you are either not paying attention, don't know good writing, or are easily tricked by stupid fan service dialogue and flashy battle scenes.

I'm enjoying it for what it is, but the quality drop off is enormous. 

[Hards Alumni]

It's pretty obvious that Arya, quite likely with Sansa, is setting up Littlefinger.

The wights that attacked Jeor Mormont were members of the Nght's Watch killed beyond the wall and then returned to Castle Black. So, becoming a wight seems to at the very least require being killed beyond the wall, and almost certainly by another wight or a walker. I don't recall any of the people killed at Craster's Keep or Battle of Castle Black turning into wights. That being the case, executing a prisoner and waiting for him to turn into a wight seems an impossibility.
(p.s. Going to capture a wight was a terrible idea ... but GoT is full of people acting on terrible ideas. Sort of a central theme of the stories, no?)

In the books the dudes turn while in the black cells at castle black.  The story line doesn't fit within the narrative and it's sloppy hero trope quest BS.  And that no one important dies on the lake is even more absurd.   

If/when Martin finishes the books, I firmly believe the story won't be close to this bungled mess.

[Hards Alumni]

Very nice catch. Of course, I can't say I recall if it is different than normal but it seems to be unlikely to be coincidence.

Except the first time we see the army of the dead headed south (seasons ago) the only white walker we see has an ice lance/spear. 

[Jockey]

In the books the dudes turn while in the black cells at castle black.  The story line doesn't fit within the narrative and it's sloppy hero trope quest BS.  And that no one important dies on the lake is even more absurd.   

If/when Martin finishes the books, I firmly believe the story won't be close to this bungled mess.

Why do you watch a show that you think is so bad?

I'm asking seriously - not just to be snarky. It is fantasy and there is no way the show could encompass the detail of many thousands of pages. Shortcuts are necessary and storylines need to be completed in a timely manner.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In the books the dudes turn while in the black cells at castle black. 

My understanding is that someone has to be killed by a wight/walker or have their corpse touched by a walker. It's not an instantaneous process unless their corpse is touched by a walker. So the rangers brought the corpses in between them dying and them turning.

[MU82]

Why do you watch a show that you think is so bad?

I was thinking the exact same thing.

I loved the first season of True Detective. When I got 2 episodes into the second season and didn't like it, I stopped watching it. It was easy. When NYPD Blue got stupid, I stopped watching it. When MASH got awful, I stopped watching it. ER. That stupid effen Seattle medical show. Etc, etc, etc.

I confess that I did watch the entire season of John From Cincinnati. I was a glutton for punishment!

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Except the first time we see the army of the dead headed south (seasons ago) the only white walker we see has an ice lance/spear.

That doesn't really prove anything either way.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Oh horsecrap.  If you don't think this season has strayed from the core of the series you are either not paying attention, don't know good writing, or are easily tricked by stupid fan service dialogue and flashy battle scenes.

I'm enjoying it for what it is, but the quality drop off is enormous.

[Hards Alumni]

Why do you watch a show that you think is so bad?

I'm asking seriously - not just to be snarky. It is fantasy and there is no way the show could encompass the detail of many thousands of pages. Shortcuts are necessary and storylines need to be completed in a timely manner.

It's not a bad show, it's just a poorly done season.

I love the show, I just don't want to see it end on a sour note.  Especially, for how good it has been in seasons past.  I'm an enormous fan of the show and books.  I just think that they deserve the criticism that they're getting.

[JWags85]

I was thinking the exact same thing.

I loved the first season of True Detective. When I got 2 episodes into the second season and didn't like it, I stopped watching it. It was easy. When NYPD Blue got stupid, I stopped watching it. When MASH got awful, I stopped watching it. ER. That stupid effen Seattle medical show. Etc, etc, etc.

I confess that I did watch the entire season of John From Cincinnati. I was a glutton for punishment!

Your examples aren't exactly apples to apples.  True Detective had a compeltely different cast and storyline.  And network TV dramas have 20+ episode seasons and meandering plots.

There are ebbs and flows to series.  Some people hated certain seasons of the Wire.  There was a season of Friday Night Lights that was absolutely laughable.  But they are still great shows with great characters that keep you coming back.  GoT is no exception.  Its not infallible, especially when you have a very defined point of comparison in writing.

Complaining about certain episodes or writing themes doesn't make it a bad show all of a sudden or one that has no interest in watching.

[MU82]

Your examples aren't exactly apples to apples.  True Detective had a compeltely different cast and storyline.  And network TV dramas have 20+ episode seasons and meandering plots.

There are ebbs and flows to series.  Some people hated certain seasons of the Wire.  There was a season of Friday Night Lights that was absolutely laughable.  But they are still great shows with great characters that keep you coming back.  GoT is no exception.  Its not infallible, especially when you have a very defined point of comparison in writing.

Complaining about certain episodes or writing themes doesn't make it a bad show all of a sudden or one that has no interest in watching.

Fair enough.

I didn't especially like Season 5 of The Wire but I kept watching. So I've been burned by my own argument!

[JustinLewisFanClubPres]

It's not a bad show, it's just a poorly done season.

I love the show, I just don't want to see it end on a sour note.  Especially, for how good it has been in seasons past.  I'm an enormous fan of the show and books.  I just think that they deserve the criticism that they're getting.

I think this is the bigger point that justifies the criticism and its not even HBO's fault necessarily. The show was nearly unassailable in its quality on all fronts for three or so seasons. Then, IMO, it seemed to start spinning it's wheels a bit as it kept introducing new story threads from the books that don't actually move the overarching story forward. That also seemed to be a direct result of waiting on Martin to write more, which hasn't happened, and I think ultimately led to a pivot from the showrunners and the rushed pacing we see now as HBO trues to close out the series before it fades to obscurity waiting on the books to finish.

Once all is said and done, I'd be curious to see someone's reaction to binging the entire series. I think that's type of viewing would show the issues being poin ted out more glaringly  - similar to rewatching The Wire now and realizing that Season 5 really failed to pales in comparison to earlier seasons.

It's still one of the best shows on TV. It has just gotten formulaic in a way that I've gotten spoiled in the golden age of television not to expect from prestogie drama. I wish there was more time to let these major events breathe and develop this season as I think that would have helped with the suspension of disbelief issues people - including myself - are having. That doesn't mean I'm not interested in seeing the series resolve though.


Edit: Haha. I guess The Wire was a pretty good example since two other people brought it up while I typed. Also, even though I feel that way about The Wire, I still think it is one of the greatest TV shows ever. I would guess most critics in this thread feel the same way about GoT.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I suppose my issue with some of the criticism is that I get the impression (and I could be wrong) that some people go into watching an episode actually looking for things to nitpick, ridicule, or complain about. 

The White Walkers having chains to pull out the dragon is one example, which can be explained very easily. 

It's fine if some don't think the writing is as good or don't like the pacing - that's subjective.  But saying if someone disagrees then they don't know good writing is ridiculous.   

I've actually enjoyed the quicker pacing.  It doesn't feel rushed to me - it just feels like the stakes are higher.  That's how I felt in Breaking Bad's last season.  That show could have gone an additional season or more episodes and drawn things out but Gilligan executed the last season perfectly, and part of that was due to the quicker pacing and moving the story forward. (I am not saying the writing on GoT is as good as Breaking Bad).   

[#UnleashSean]

You're all trying to figure out how long it took the ice to freeze, how long dragons take to fly across an island. ETC.

Im over here asking why the army of dead dont have arrows.

[brewcity77]

I have to imagine HBO thought they'd have more source material by now. GoT Season 1 came out 3 months before A Dance With Dragons. Here we are over 6 years later and ADWD is still the most recent book Martin has released. Probably figured they'd have more source material by now.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm fine with people having different opinions on the quality is this season. It's more the disparging of others with a different opinion on the quality of the season that I think is rubbing people the wrong way.

Im over here asking why the army of dead dont have arrows.

Asked myself the same question.  Im still thinking this was a trap for the dragons.

[chapman]

In the books the dudes turn while in the black cells at castle black.   

They were likely in the process of turning when discovered.  Sam had noted that there would be a smell if they had been dead for any length of time, but there was none.

And that no one important dies on the lake is even more absurd.

The throwaways were very strange and took a little away from it for me.  Several times I thought someone important had just gotten KO'd only to find that they made up five or six extra people that went along on the hike to kill off.  Either just kill Thoros or kill someone else too.


Anyhoo, I've enjoyed this season and the show for what it is.  It's still quite good, but they lost any chance to stay on par with the books when they botched Stannis in every way possible.

[Pakuni]

Being critical of the pacing, plot lines, writing, dialogue, etc., is entirely fair game. It's all subjective, after all (though, as Vander Blue Man Group notes, it's ridiculous to argue that anyone who disagrees with your subjective opinion is somehow less capable of recognizing quality).

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And that no one important dies on the lake is even more absurd.   

Well....except a dragon.

Despite that, I agree with this. I was waiting for a classic, "Phew, everyone survived, can't beli....HOLY CRAP WHAT JUST HAPPENED, I CAN'T BELIEVE *insert character here* JUST DIED." Instead, everyone but the redshirts and the red priest made it. I was disappointed by the lack of a major death. I think the writers maybe thought the death of a dragon would be impactful enough, but I just don't connect to them the same way I connect to a character. Half the time I don't know which dragon is on screen.