NEW C7/Big East info

[Ellenson Guerrero]

I'm also not opposed to taking Richmond.  Bring them and their ~1.8 billion endowment along.

Not sure how their endowment really matters if they aren't spending that money on basketball.

[Tugg Speedman]

If that happens, you don't have to hold anything you just add them.  If that get us to 11, or 13 or whatever other prime number, doesn't matter, you just make it happen.  I don't think it happens, even if UNC leaves.  I suspect they stay in the ACC or join the Big Ten

I'm assuming if UNC leaves, this opens the floodgates and other top ACC football teams leave.  Yes they get replaced with Uconn and/or Cincy but at that point the ACC becomes second rate football conference (essentially the BE v 2.0 plus WF, BC, Duke NC State, etc.).  Under this scenario ND sees its commitment to play 5 ACC teams a year as a bad thing as it weakens their SoS and reduces their chances of making the new 4 team playoff.  I'm also assuming the B1G does not relent and will only take ND if they become a full football member (which the B1G will do in a heartbeat).  Maybe ND would have considered this before, but now that they were in the national championship game and have a tremendous recruiting class coming in, no way now.

So, an imploded ACC means ND's best option is to go back to full independent football and the C7 (renamed the C8).

[79Warrior]

I think geography is at play here also. I don't think the eastern schools want to make that many trips west. We are the misfit on the map being the furthest west.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm assuming if UNC leaves, this opens the floodgates and other top ACC football teams leave.  Yes they get replaced with Uconn and/or Cincy but at that point the ACC becomes second rate football conference (essentially the BE v 2.0 plus WF, BC, Duke NC State, etc.).  Under this scenario ND sees it commitment to play 5 ACC teams a year as a bad thing as it weakens their SoS and reduces their changes of making the new 4 team playoff.  I'm also assuming the B1G does not relent and will only take ND if thy become a full football member.  Maybe ND would have considered this before, but now that they were in the national championship game and have a tremendous recruiting class coming in, no way now.

So, an imploded ACC means ND best option is to go back to full independent football and the C7 (renamed the C8).

Maybe, but you have to have somewhere to go.  If UNC leaves and say Georgia Tech goes with them or Virginia....that doesn't mean Clemson, or BC, or Miami, etc leave.  They certainly could....might be a death knell for them.  They have a pretty good television contract right now...you could also see the Big 12 schools flocking to the ACC and that kills the Big 12 with Texas ultimately going to the Big Ten, Pac 12 or SEC.  Who knows. 

As far as the 5 ND schools they play in the ACC, it was my understanding that it really doesn't impact them that much, especially in the short term.  They already play these schools or had them scheduled anyway in the future:  Pitt (ACC), BC (ACC), Miami (ACC), Wake Forest (ACC) and Syracuse (ACC).  They will likely have to drop their game against Purdue down the road or Northwestern.  Basically, if this arrangement wasn't announced they were going to have a heavy ACC schedule anyway in the next few years.

[avid1010]

call me crazy, but i trust the C7 to get this right.  after the C7 decided to split, and hearing how far back they were aligning themselves to ensure sustainability, it made me feel a lot better about their abilities to ensure a solid future for men's basketball.  i don't think there are going to be any favors handed out to teams...my guess is Fox Sports has as much of a say as to who is in or out than anyone, and the C7 presidents will get this right.  

while i don't believe there will ever be a better basketball conference than the old big east, i'm almost more excited to see mu in a league that just focuses on college hoops than i was when they first got into the BEAST.  with a solid tv deal from Fox and a basketball only conference, i believe mu has finally found stability in a conference that will be very attractive to top talent players and coaches that don't want to play second fiddle to their football peers.  

[Norm]

Couple thoughts on the article and some posts:

- Not good if it is MU vs. GU and other East Coast schools arguing over Creighton - MU seems outnumbered.

- Creighton just went to the Final Four in men's soccer and has a great soccer tradition. For basketball, last year Creighton averaged 16,667 per game, finishing 6th in the country (MU had 15,183 and was 13), while Richmond averaged 5,660 and was 93rd in attendance. In its history, Creighton has made the NCAAs 17 times while Richmond has been there 9 times.

- Notre Dame needs to align with a conference that has football so their football team can get bids to Bowl games in the years they are not challenging for a national title (which is the majority of years the last decade).

- I'd still take Richmond over Dayton.

[buckchuckler]

I'm assuming if UNC leaves, this opens the floodgates and other top ACC football teams leave.  Yes they get replaced with Uconn and/or Cincy but at that point the ACC becomes second rate football conference (essentially the BE v 2.0 plus WF, BC, Duke NC State, etc.).

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  The ACC isn't already a second rate football conference?  Who knew. 

[warriorstrack]

Preaching to the choir, I think, but I would hope a 12 team conference is still a possibility in 2014

[mu_hilltopper]

It doesn't really matter if it is Creighton or Richmond...both are lame.  I can't get pumped up that my AD is going after Creighton, sorry.  The whole realignment is so depressing.  Looks like that Texas job is going to open at season's end.  Buzz is going to have a decision to make..neither Richmond nor Creighton do anything to help MU's case.

Everyone is beating up on poor jt92.  Let's just bookmark that post and re-read it on April 15th or so.

[muguru]

The only thing I find appealing with this new conference as far as MU is concerned, is it will give MU more chances to win a conference title every year. I'd expect them to be contenders every year. That being said, I've been spoiled with the Big east and will definitely miss it.

[tower912]

http://www.vuhoops.com/2013/2/12/3980486/new-teams-for-the-c7


A Villanova fan's perspective.   I disagree with his idea of inviting schools with D1 football.   The current state of the Big East shows the hybrid model is flawed.   If you want stability, stick with like-minded schools and keep football out.   However, he has clearly put some time in contemplating it.   

[keefe]

I met Father Pilarz a few weeks ago and asked him about the new conference.

Did Fr Pilarz reply, "Well, according to Chicos Bail Bonds on Scoop..."

[Benny B]

Maybe, but you have to have somewhere to go.  If UNC leaves and say Georgia Tech goes with them or Virginia....that doesn't mean Clemson, or BC, or Miami, etc leave.  They certainly could....might be a death knell for them.  They have a pretty good television contract right now

The second UNC walks out the door, that contract is dead.

[Eldon]

http://www.vuhoops.com/2013/2/12/3980486/new-teams-for-the-c7


A Villanova fan's perspective.   I disagree with his idea of inviting schools with D1 football.   The current state of the Big East shows the hybrid model is flawed.   If you want stability, stick with like-minded schools and keep football out.   However, he has clearly put some time in contemplating it.   

Definitely put some effort into this.  I want to agree with this guy about Cincy, Uconn, Temple, keeping MSG, etc., but those schools seem to be increasing their focus on football and any hopes of these schools relegating fball to FCS or the MAC seems to be fading, if it they haven't fully faded already.

[Dawson Rental]

Hard to imagine Richmond being the choice as the 10th team.

Their only shot was always a 12 team league.

[Dawson Rental]

Have to quietly hold a spot open for ND ... when (if?) UNC leaves the ACC (for the B1G) that starts the "great ACC implosion."  ND can go back to being completely independent in football and the C7 can roll out the welcome wagon for all other ND sports, including basketball.

Delusional

[jsglow]

Let's add a few facts to the Creighton/Richmond discussion.

1) Fr. Lannon is a former senior MU administrator, was almost certainly actively considered by the MU BOT as the replacement to Fr. Wild, and was announced as the Creighton President very shortly after Fr. Pilarz was announced as the new MU President.

2) The lay President for Georgetown works for the Jesuits, not the other way around.

3) Fr. Pilarz is essentially a Georgetown 'lifer'.  No doubt he has very close and deep ties that go back decades.  I'd suspect that the Georgetown Presidency would have been his 'dream' job but that's just wasn't in the cards at the time.  He understands that God (and his superiors) called him to lead Marquette and that barring unforeseen circumstances that'll be his terminal position assuming he's successful.

4) Creighton, Georgetown, Marquette, Xavier are Jesuit universities and fully worthy of participation in the new conference.  All involved can clearly understand that Loyola doesn't get invited or that St. Joe's encroaches on Villanova's Philly territory.  (Notice I didn't exclude SLU.)

5) Richmond isn't Jesuit.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The second UNC walks out the door, that contract is dead.

Nope.  The contract doesn't die, there are clauses that change it, but it isn't dead.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Did Fr Pilarz reply, "Well, according to Chicos Bail Bonds on Scoop..."

Larry is doing a fine job, despite the rantings here by some posters. 

[Coleman]

Let's not overplay the Jesuit thing here. All else being equal, its nice extra credit for Creighton. But it shouldn't be a deciding factor.

That being said, I still think Creighton is a better choice than Richmond, Dayton, or SLU.

I still think we need to go hard for Gonzaga at all costs. Make what accomodations to them we can, give them an extra $1 mil per year for travel (divided by 11 other teams that's less than $100,000 per school per year, worth it IMHO considering the fat TV deal we are about to get).  

Gonzaga, Butler and Xavier. If we go to 12, Creighton and either Richmond, Dayton or SLU (pick 1).

[jsglow]

Let's not overplay the Jesuit thing here. All else being equal, its nice extra credit for Creighton. But it shouldn't be a deciding factor.

That being said, I still think Creighton is a better choice than Richmond, Dayton, or SLU. 

Concur that it is not deciding.  But I've yet to see any quantative factor that would point to a Richmond invite prior to a Creighton invite.  Jersey guy indicated that an eastern group lead by GTown was pulling for them for reasons not disclosed. 

I wonder if some mythical 'midwest travel issue' has surfaced?  If so, then the Zags are clearly 'a bridge too far'.  One other interesting alternative would be to compromise and invite neither.  Dayton or SLU become the compromise 10th team.  Short sighted in my mind.

[icheights]

Do we really think being a jesuit university is that big of a deal here when deciding which schools to add?

I would think being jesuit university would be far down the list of important qualifications for addition to the new conference.

[jsglow]

Do we really think being a jesuit university is that big of a deal here when deciding which schools to add?

I would think being jesuit university would be far down the list of important qualifications for addition to the new conference.

All I'm saying is that friends stick up for friends.  Things like TV contracts, etc. are FAR more important.

[Benny B]

Nope.  The contract doesn't die, there are clauses that change it, but it isn't dead.

If Virginia or Clemson or NC State walks out the door, there are clauses that change the contract, yes.  But if UNC walks out the door, the contract gets re-opened completely... in the business world, it's called a "key-person(s)" provision.  In this case, it's a "key-members" provision.

One key has already been turned, just one more and [insert nuclear missile explosion noise] goes the ACC.  The ACC's suit against Maryland isn't about $50M, it's the ACC's fail-deadly response... if that falls, then [insert innumerable nuclear missile launch noises].

[MUMountin]

Do we really think being a jesuit university is that big of a deal here when deciding which schools to add?

I would think being jesuit university would be far down the list of important qualifications for addition to the new conference.

I think the point is that it is not so much that Creighton is a Jesuit university (there are plenty of other Jesuit universities that are not being considered, even within the geographic region), but the numerous connections between Marquette and Creighton (formed via the Jesuits, and specifically the Wisconsin Province) that are probably resulting in MU's push for their inclusion.  In that sense, I'm sure it is a motivating factor for the Marquette contingency, even if it is less relevant for the C7 as a whole.

But, to your point, all of that would be moot if Creighton didn't have a decent basketball/athletics program.