Vander Blue

[77ncaachamps]

If 13lue goes, I hope it's a hyperinformed decision.

We can pull out the Chones story and try to apply it to today's world, but it doesn't work. There were two "premier" leagues at the time: NBA and ABA. Now it's just the NBA and at a distant 1,000,000th, the NBADL.

If he's not drafted, he's going to Europe where the money is. But without the guaranteed contracts the NBA offers, it's a riskier proposition.
At worse, he's playing in the NBADL wondering what a senior campaign would have looked like.

[MU82]

If Vander could play point in the Association he would be a first rounder, but unfortunately, he isnt playing PG for MU.

This is Argument No. 1 for him returning. He could play a good amount of point next season and prove himself there.

Unless he becomes a considerably better 3PT shooter, he has little chance to be an NBA 2-guard.

[We R Final Four]

IF Blue wants to go pro, he should do this after his junior year. The draft class of this year is the worst in decades; it's absolutely atrocious. He might sneak in as a middle 2nd rounder or later or something.

If VB goes in the middle of the 2nd round or later (not sure what or something means) he got bad advice and should have stayed and improved his draft status.
Especially considering that this draft is weak. 

[MU82]

If VB goes in the middle of the 2nd round or later (not sure what or something means) he got bad advice and should have stayed and improved his draft status.
Especially considering that this draft is weak. 

Exactly. If I knew I was going to be a first-round pick -- better yet, a lottery pick -- and was going to get the guaranteed bucks, I'd strongly consider leaving school. If I was pretty sure that wasn't going to be the case, I'd return and work like hell all offseason to turn myself into a first-rounder.

There are many who think getting drafted in the second round is worse than not getting drafted. You don't get guaranteed money but your rights are still owned by a team; better to be a free agent who can make his own deal.

[Goose]

NBA teams draft after first 10 picks on potential. Heard Jay Bilas talking about the Kentucky guys and all will be drafted because upside potential and not immediate impact.  I think VB falls 100% in that group. VB is a completely different type of athlete than Jae, DJO or Butler and that is where his upside comes in. From what I have heard VB has been playing as if last season at MU. Things can change but I think he does more than test the waters.

[SaveOD238]

Jae was the third best player on a 22-15, 9-9, Sweet Sixteen team his junior year.

Doesn't this just prove that the 2010-11 Big East was the best conference of all time?  We finished in 11th place, with at least three, maybe four, future NBA draft picks playing significant minutes.  There were TEN teams "better" than us that season.  Wow.

(Of course, the conference laid an egg in the tournament, with everyone but MU and UConn crapping out in the first two rounds)

[nyg]

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2014/
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2013/

Draft Express is pretty good at picking the potential candidates for the draft.

Vander not listed on 2013 or 2014 draft potential.

I think he stays for his senior year.  

[WarriorInNYC]

There are many who think getting drafted in the second round is worse than not getting drafted. You don't get guaranteed money but your rights are still owned by a team; better to be a free agent who can make his own deal.

Kind of like Wesley Matthews' situation.  Undrafted and signed 1 year deal with the Jazz.  Able to sign completely new contract immediately year after.  Not sure what everyone out of his class is making now or who has new contracts, but Wes' first year in the NBA, his new contract with Portland (at the time) made him the richest player out of that year's class.

[MerrittsMustache]

Doesn't this just prove that the 2010-11 Big East was the best conference of all time?  We finished in 11th place, with at least three, maybe four, future NBA draft picks playing significant minutes.  There were TEN teams "better" than us that season.  Wow.

(Of course, the conference laid an egg in the tournament, with everyone but MU and UConn crapping out in the first two rounds)

That was partly be design. MU played Syracuse in the 2nd round and Cincy played UConn. The Selection Committee didn't want the potential of BE teams dominating the later rounds.

[77ncaachamps]

Kind of like Wesley Matthews' situation.  Undrafted and signed 1 year deal with the Jazz.  Able to sign completely new contract immediately year after.  Not sure what everyone out of his class is making now or who has new contracts, but Wes' first year in the NBA, his new contract with Portland (at the time) made him the richest player out of that year's class.

This. But think about how many lucky SOBs this happens to each season, much less each decade?

The odds are not great.

[Bocephys]

This. But think about how many lucky SOBs this happens to each season, much less each decade?

The odds are not great.

Exactly, the theory behind this is that you can pick your situation, thereby giving yourself an extra percentage point or two of making the team.  Let's not pretend by any stretch that Wesley's situation is anything near the norm.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This season is a long way from being over. A lot could change, but as of now Vander is better than DJO or Jae showed their junior years. He's the #1 option on the team, not the second or third. Teams game plan to stop him. And that team (so far) looks better than the 2010-11 team. Let's see how it plays out.

We agree to disagree.  If you put the junior versions of DJO or Jae on this year's team, they are both better than Vander this year.  In my opinion.  I agree, let's see how it plays out.

[Tugg Speedman]

NBA teams draft after first 10 picks on potential. Heard Jay Bilas talking about the Kentucky guys and all will be drafted because upside potential and not immediate impact.  I think VB falls 100% in that group. VB is a completely different type of athlete than Jae, DJO or Butler and that is where his upside comes in. From what I have heard VB has been playing as if last season at MU. Things can change but I think he does more than test the waters.

What exactly does this mean?  How would he play differently if he was not not leaving?  And why do you have to heard it second hand.  We can't we all see it?

[Goose]

Chico's

I'm with Lenny 100% on this one. No comparison between VB's Jr. year and DJO or Jae. Truthfully I think it took many on here until midseason last year for them to believe Jae was for real. Many folks were higher on DJO after Jr. season than Jae if memory serves me. If VB is back next year the national expectations will be there. IMO his JR. year blows them away.


Another MU84

I heard VB had his mind made up a year ago he was going pro after this season. I think he is playing similar to what a free agent does in contract year, which is deliver the goods for a contract.

[MerrittsMustache]

Chico's

I'm with Lenny 100% on this one. No comparison between VB's Jr. year and DJO or Jae. Truthfully I think it took many on here until midseason last year for them to believe Jae was for real. Many folks were higher on DJO after Jr. season than Jae if memory serves me. If VB is back next year the national expectations will be there. IMO his JR. year blows them away.


Another MU84

I heard VB had his mind made up a year ago he was going pro after this season. I think he is playing similar to what a free agent does in contract year, which is deliver the goods for a contract.

So he's taking PEDs?

[Tugg Speedman]

Another MU84

I heard VB had his mind made up a year ago he was going pro after this season. I think he is playing similar to what a free agent does in contract year, which is deliver the goods for a contract.

This makes even less sense.  He would play "less hard" if he was coming back?  Why?

And as far as him making up his mind a year ago to go pro ... I also made up my mind to go pro year ago too.  That does not mean I will.

A few posts above is the draft express for 2013 and 2014.  He is not on either list.  Unless he wants to go pro in Europe (maybe with Otule ) or the NBADL, he better start getting noticed.

[MU82]

The phrase "from what I have heard" always elicits a raised eyebrow from this observer.

From what a lot of people had heard, Buzz was going to SMU last year.

From what a lot of people had heard, JJJ wasn't going to sign early with MU.

From what a lot of people had heard, Big East was going to merge with the A-10.

From what a lot of people had heard, Romney wasn't merely going to win but was going to win in a landslide.

Nothing personal, Goose. Maybe Vander really already has decided to go pro. But forgive me for not believing it (or anything else about any other subject) until the source is a little more credible than "from what I have heard."

[honkytonk]

Isnt it better to develop in the d-league anyways? There are just as many scouts that watch those games as there are that watch the college games... Plus, no classes, no homework, no ncaa restrictions on practice time with coaches...better competition in practice and games...

Nothing but basketball all day, every day.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Interesting that you guys are debating Vander vs. DJO's junior year.  According to KenPom, the most similar statistical player to Blue's junior year in recent college basketball history is drumroll please..... DJO's junior season.  DJO's ORTG = 106.8, Blue's currently = 106.1.  And to bring it all back around to missed recruiting opportunities, the third most similar is Michael Snaer's junior year.

[Goose]

Another MU84

You win. Got me twice today on the ex pats tax issue and VB going pro.

[Tugg Speedman]

Isnt it better to develop in the d-league anyways? There are just as many scouts that watch those games as there are that watch the college games... Plus, no classes, no homework, no ncaa restrictions on practice time with coaches...better competition in practice and games...

Nothing but basketball all day, every day.

So why does Kentucky get even one recruit?  Why don't the top dozen or so one-and-done players go directly to the NBADL?  How come it almost never happens?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chico's

I'm with Lenny 100% on this one. No comparison between VB's Jr. year and DJO or Jae. Truthfully I think it took many on here until midseason last year for them to believe Jae was for real. Many folks were higher on DJO after Jr. season than Jae if memory serves me. If VB is back next year the national expectations will be there. IMO his JR. year blows them away.


Another MU84

I heard VB had his mind made up a year ago he was going pro after this season. I think he is playing similar to what a free agent does in contract year, which is deliver the goods for a contract.

Well, we will agree to disagree?  Statistically I think it's a wash if not benefit to Jae and DJO.  Tougher league back then, but they still had slightly better stats and had better players on the team they had to share the ball with.  It's tough to break through when you have DJO and Butler also on the team, but he did.  When you say "no comparison" that makes me scratch my head.  If you look statistically, not only is there a comparison but one can easily argue VB loses that argument...so I don't get where "no comparison" comes from, ESPECIALLY when you look at how much better the Big East was that season and what VB's role is on this team vs those guys roles on that team.

Going into his senior season, Crowder and DJO were both preseason All Big East picks so I don't think I would agree that people didn't think they were for real until midseason.  People knew they were pretty good before the season even started.  Blue will be a preseason all Big East player going into his senior season as well, if he sticks around.

If Blue leaves, he leaves.  I wish him the best.  Hopefully he makes it.  To me, he is undersized, hasn't proven he can play the point, has a very inconsistent outside shot.  Another year would do him well.

[Tugg Speedman]

If Blue leaves, he leaves.  I wish him the best.  Hopefully he makes it.  To me, he is undersized, hasn't proven he can play the point, has a very inconsistent outside shot.  Another year would do him well.

+1

If Blue comes back next year and plays the point, and is effective, then he's getting paid at the next level.

[honkytonk]

So why does Kentucky get even one recruit?  Why don't the top dozen or so one-and-done players go directly to the NBADL?  How come it almost never happens?

Who's to say it wont happen in the future? Right now, I think some of it has to do with players eying their marketability in the future. Being one and done in college prob helps more in that regard than being one and done in the d-league.

Blue isnt signing endorsement deals anytime soon.

[RJax55]

Isnt it better to develop in the d-league anyways? There are just as many scouts that watch those games as there are that watch the college games... Plus, no classes, no homework, no ncaa restrictions on practice time with coaches...better competition in practice and games...

Nothing but basketball all day, every day.

I agree, that sounds pretty logical.... But, how many guys have had success in making the jump? And, by success, I'm talking about receiving a multi-year guarantee contract. Similar to what a 1st round pick would get.

I mean, for an underclassman who is currently not 1st round material, what's a better option to make the league and get that guarantee contract.

Stay in school and hope to increase your draft stock. Or, declare (maybe get drafted) and develop in the D-league. Right now, I think the better option is to stay in school.

That's one of the major issues with the D-league. It's not a true minor-league system yet.