The curious case of DG

[tower912]

He has been invisible for 4 games now.   Fallout from the flagrant 2?    Fallout from CO dominating him in practice?    The league making adjustments to him and now throwing instant double teams at him and keeping him from getting good position?     CO has been a much better option the last 4 games. 

[MarsupialMadness]

It seems like the refs are not so quick to send Davante to the line anymore. It's like they've caught on to his act of trying to draw a foul every time. That was a major part of his dominance early in the season.

[LAMUfan]

was thinking the same thing.  are teams playing him differently?  he is certainly getting multiteamed like crazy, need to go a little faster perhaps, start passing out quickly or something.  All that said he will probably score 20 on Saturday.  Good game for chris though

[MUMountin]

The league making adjustments to him and now throwing instant double teams at him and keeping him from getting good position?

I think this is the main thing--the book is out on him now, and he/Buzz hasn't yet adjusted to counter it yet.  I think he was pretty used to being able to get thrown the ball and doing about whatever he wanted against one defender--now that he is getting swarmed as soon as the ball gets to him (if the entry even gets there), he holds it too long in the hopes of still getting to show off his moves.  Needs to pass out quickly to an open shooter.

That said--more spacing would help.  As often as we are going to see these packed in 2-3 zones, we need to space the floor out more.  Seems like wherever the ball was on offense tonight, there were three G'town players surrounding it.

[forgetful]

I think this is the main thing--the book is out on him now, and he/Buzz hasn't yet adjusted to counter it yet.  I think he was pretty used to being able to get thrown the ball and doing about whatever he wanted against one defender--now that he is getting swarmed as soon as the ball gets to him (if the entry even gets there), he holds it too long in the hopes of still getting to show off his moves.  Needs to pass out quickly to an open shooter.

That said--more spacing would help.  As often as we are going to see these packed in 2-3 zones, we need to space the floor out more.  Seems like wherever the ball was on offense tonight, there were three G'town players surrounding it.

He was always getting double teamed.  The difference is he has been reluctant to pass out of the double team and repost.

The defenders are also smarter.  They let him have a bit of space so they can make him make contact (and then take the charge).  That forces Gardner to either do nothing or try to shoot over the top of a bigger guy.  His lack of elevation makes it too hard to shoot over the defender, which enables enough time for another defender to trap him. 

[4everwarriors]

Probably has shot his load.

[warriorstrack]

He has been invisible for 4 games now.  Fallout from CO dominating him in practice?    The league making adjustments to him and now throwing instant double teams at him and keeping him from getting good position?     CO has been a much better option the last 4 games.  

Every game I have seen him play bad he has been 10ft away from the basket when he posts up or gets the ball.  CO is doing a great job at getting down low, hence his success.  DG needs to get down to the block where he is at his best.

[4everwarriors]

Everyone tries to paint Gardner as the second coming of Shaq. That's speaks more to the desparate state of talentless big men our coaches have been able to recruit over the past 20 years.
Fact is, Gardner was a 3 star recruit who we beat out South Florida for in the Spring, is horribly overweight with no vertical lift, and shoots effectively up to 4 ft.

[MU82]

Gardner didn't suddenly become a bad player. He never was a great player. He is a good Big East center who doesn't have the benefit of any floor-spacers on the entire roster.

If I'm coaching against Marquette, especially when Gardner is in the game, I am packing it in so tight you'd think the lane were sponsored by Samsonite. I just say: "Go ahead Vander, go ahead Lockett, go ahead Junior, go ahead either Wilson, go ahead Mayonnaise, try to hit some 3s. I'm not changing the defense unless you guys make 3 or 4 in a row. And if I lose to you because you go 8-for-13 from the arc, I'll tip my hat to you and live with that loss."

We have trouble making even 12-footers and it has been a shortcoming all season long. Sometimes, we get away with it because of our guys being good athletes and playing hard. But it's tough to beat any good team when you give up 9, 12, 15, 18, 21 points on the 3-point line.

Sometimes, in basketball, you simply have to make shots. Our inability to do so cost us the game against Florida in the NCAAs last year. And it very likely will cost us in the NCAAs this year.

Gardner still has great hands and great feet. He still has talent. But he's only 6-8 and has absolutely no ups. So when he catches the ball 7 feet or more from the basket and suddenly is swarmed by 2 or 3 defenders, he can't do anything. Tonight, he tried a couple of times to just turn and shoot and he ended up tasting the basketball.

Georgetown defended him exactly as every team should -- and as the last three or four teams have. It won't get any easier for him or the rest of the team if nobody can step up and hit 3s.

[Goose]

Gardner has been a nice surprise but he is not the answer. Everyone is excited because exceeded expectations and have given him a free pass. He is out of shape, no vertical explosion and teams have his number. He has a long way to go to be a top level big man. He has great hands and decent footwork but if not in better shape he will struggle against top teams.

[Hards Alumni]

Gardner didn't suddenly become a bad player. He never was a great player. He is a good Big East center who doesn't have the benefit of any floor-spacers on the entire roster.

If I'm coaching against Marquette, especially when Gardner is in the game, I am packing it in so tight you'd think the lane were sponsored by Samsonite. I just say: "Go ahead Vander, go ahead Lockett, go ahead Junior, go ahead either Wilson, go ahead Mayonnaise, try to hit some 3s. I'm not changing the defense unless you guys make 3 or 4 in a row. And if I lose to you because you go 8-for-13 from the arc, I'll tip my hat to you and live with that loss."

We have trouble making even 12-footers and it has been a shortcoming all season long. Sometimes, we get away with it because of our guys being good athletes and playing hard. But it's tough to beat any good team when you give up 9, 12, 15, 18, 21 points on the 3-point line.

Sometimes, in basketball, you simply have to make shots. Our inability to do so cost us the game against Florida in the NCAAs last year. And it very likely will cost us in the NCAAs this year.

Gardner still has great hands and great feet. He still has talent. But he's only 6-8 and has absolutely no ups. So when he catches the ball 7 feet or more from the basket and suddenly is swarmed by 2 or 3 defenders, he can't do anything. Tonight, he tried a couple of times to just turn and shoot and he ended up tasting the basketball.

Georgetown defended him exactly as every team should -- and as the last three or four teams have. It won't get any easier for him or the rest of the team if nobody can step up and hit 3s.

Nailed it.

[nyg]

In last five games, DG is averaging 5.6 ppg, to include 13 against Depaul.  Prior to that, he was at almost 13 ppg, playing about 22 minutes.  I agree with assessments regarding his physical capability to play, but when he was averaging 13 ppg, he was more than capable.  He was drawing fouls and almost half of his points came from the free throw line. 

I also agree that opponents have saw the film and have his game down pat now.  When MU throws it inside, they doubled team and he has become confused at times, not knowing when to pass back out to the perimeter.  His shots are getting blocked and has made some poor turnovers.  It is apparent DG does not really have a "go to" move as other bigmen have.  The only basket he made last night was a prayer tip in. 

If he can get the ball causing the double team, then pass out to the open man, his game will hopefully be back. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Teams have adjusted to Gardner...but more so because of MU's perimeter shooting or lack of a DJO or Jae who can also penetrate the seams with the dribble drive. This year's team is too much East-West looking for a crease, allowing the defense to double down on Gardner when he receives the ball. Buzz can do subtle adjustments like flashing DG at the free throw line or wide post for a face up jumper that would open up the zone.

[hairy worthen]

In last five games, DG is averaging 5.6 ppg, to include 13 against Depaul.  Prior to that, he was at almost 13 ppg, playing about 22 minutes.  I agree with assessments regarding his physical capability to play, but when he was averaging 13 ppg, he was more than capable.  He was drawing fouls and almost half of his points came from the free throw line. 

I also agree that opponents have saw the film and have his game down pat now.  When MU throws it inside, they doubled team and he has become confused at times, not knowing when to pass back out to the perimeter.  His shots are getting blocked and has made some poor turnovers.  It is apparent DG does not really have a "go to" move as other bigmen have.  The only basket he made last night was a prayer tip in. 

If he can get the ball causing the double team, then pass out to the open man, his game will hopefully be back. 

His go to move is spin and drop step. Actually pretty much all he does, which is part of the problem, teams are figuring out how to take that away from him. 
You are correct he needs to do a better job of passing out of the post and recognizing when he can take it to the basket and when he can’t.  He has great footwork and has a knack for getting awkward shots to fall but 4ever is correct he is not the second coming of Shaq and he has limitations. Right now Otule looks like the better player.

[mu_hilltopper]

Gardner didn't suddenly become a bad player. He never was a great player. He is a good Big East center who doesn't have the benefit of any floor-spacers on the entire roster.

If I'm coaching against Marquette, especially when Gardner is in the game, I am packing it in so tight you'd think the lane were sponsored by Samsonite. I just say: "Go ahead Vander, go ahead Lockett, go ahead Junior, go ahead either Wilson, go ahead Mayonnaise, try to hit some 3s. I'm not changing the defense unless you guys make 3 or 4 in a row. And if I lose to you because you go 8-for-13 from the arc, I'll tip my hat to you and live with that loss."

We have trouble making even 12-footers and it has been a shortcoming all season long. Sometimes, we get away with it because of our guys being good athletes and playing hard. But it's tough to beat any good team when you give up 9, 12, 15, 18, 21 points on the 3-point line.

Sometimes, in basketball, you simply have to make shots. Our inability to do so cost us the game against Florida in the NCAAs last year. And it very likely will cost us in the NCAAs this year.

Gardner still has great hands and great feet. He still has talent. But he's only 6-8 and has absolutely no ups. So when he catches the ball 7 feet or more from the basket and suddenly is swarmed by 2 or 3 defenders, he can't do anything. Tonight, he tried a couple of times to just turn and shoot and he ended up tasting the basketball.

Georgetown defended him exactly as every team should -- and as the last three or four teams have. It won't get any easier for him or the rest of the team if nobody can step up and hit 3s.

I can't believe you posted that on the internets.  It's like posting the KFC secret recipe. 

Now we're screwed.

[connie]

Gardner didn't suddenly become a bad player. He never was a great player. He is a good Big East center who doesn't have the benefit of any floor-spacers on the entire roster.

If I'm coaching against Marquette, especially when Gardner is in the game, I am packing it in so tight you'd think the lane were sponsored by Samsonite. I just say: "Go ahead Vander, go ahead Lockett, go ahead Junior, go ahead either Wilson, go ahead Mayonnaise, try to hit some 3s. I'm not changing the defense unless you guys make 3 or 4 in a row. And if I lose to you because you go 8-for-13 from the arc, I'll tip my hat to you and live with that loss."

We have trouble making even 12-footers and it has been a shortcoming all season long. Sometimes, we get away with it because of our guys being good athletes and playing hard. But it's tough to beat any good team when you give up 9, 12, 15, 18, 21 points on the 3-point line.

Sometimes, in basketball, you simply have to make shots. Our inability to do so cost us the game against Florida in the NCAAs last year. And it very likely will cost us in the NCAAs this year.

While I agree, I can't shake the impression that a few calls that were going for DG earlier in the year are either not coming or are going the other way.  It seems like this has him frustrated as well.

Gardner still has great hands and great feet. He still has talent. But he's only 6-8 and has absolutely no ups. So when he catches the ball 7 feet or more from the basket and suddenly is swarmed by 2 or 3 defenders, he can't do anything. Tonight, he tried a couple of times to just turn and shoot and he ended up tasting the basketball.

Georgetown defended him exactly as every team should -- and as the last three or four teams have. It won't get any easier for him or the rest of the team if nobody can step up and hit 3s.

[MU82]

I can't believe you posted that on the internets.  It's like posting the KFC secret recipe. 

Now we're screwed.

Yes. And the next secret I'll reveal is "make Junior go left."

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I like DG's game a lot.

Before the season, I said that the next step in his evolution was patience and passing. He needed to learn how to hold the ball, wait for the double, and then make the appropriate play.

I think he's been working on this all season, and has made some nice passes to cutters.

WITH THIS SAID...

I think there are times when he is a little too patient and is always trying to figure out what the defense is doing. I'd like Buzz to get some screens in the lane and see if they can get Gardner deeper position and have him make his move(s) without dribbling or waiting.

I love his patience most of the time, but I'd like to see him mix in some quick takes (if he has good position). I assume the coaches are seeing the same things and are working to make adjustments.

Deep position is key, but it's not always easy to get.

For next year, I'd like to see a reverse pivot jumper from the baseline when he gets pushed off of the block. I think he has the hands and feet to make it work.

[T-Bone]

He's getting double teamed pretty quickly and they aren't letting him get as close to the basket as he'd like to be.  If I were a coach, I'd push him away from the basket and double him up as quickly as possible.  That wasn't happening very frequently earlier in the season. 

He needs to be calm and smart with the ball when double teamed - kick it out or find a cutter (not always an easy thing when two big guys are defending you).  Example was finding Mayo for 3 during the DePaul game.  IIRC he got the ball about the middle of the lane, DePaul got two guys on him, kicked it out to an open Mayo and downed the three.  Keep on doing that, the double team will have to stop. 

[tower912]

Pitt, against Cinci, consistently sent cutters throught the lane when the low post had the ball against the 2-3.    MU did it one time last night, with Juan.   If they are going to double team Gardner, perhaps it is time for some cuts from the weak side/top of the key.  

[UticaBusBarn]

There is little doubt that in designing a defense for Garnder, opposing teams have designed a defense against the whole Warrior team.

As has been pointed out many times, including by Coach Wiliams, the Warriors are not very consistent shooters from 12 feet out. In short, pack the middle and make them shoot.

However, this team is by far and away the best/deepest defensive team Coach Williams has had in his five years at Marquette. Maybe its time to really focus and turn up the defensive heat - play different defenses, keeping changing them, and throw in some "Mickey Mouse" defenses as well. (Bring back the "Eggs"?)

It is only by screwing up its (strength) defensive pressure a couple notches is this team likely to get to the next level.

As footnote, this Warrior fan is well aware that 46 to 42 boring games are the likely result 

[mileskishnish72]

Getting good position down low is one thing - finding some one who can get the ball to him is another.

[Dunk The Ball Eric]

He's getting double teamed pretty quickly and they aren't letting him get as close to the basket as he'd like to be.  If I were a coach, I'd push him away from the basket and double him up as quickly as possible.  That wasn't happening very frequently earlier in the season. 

He needs to be calm and smart with the ball when double teamed - kick it out or find a cutter (not always an easy thing when two big guys are defending you).  Example was finding Mayo for 3 during the DePaul game.  IIRC he got the ball about the middle of the lane, DePaul got two guys on him, kicked it out to an open Mayo and downed the three.  Keep on doing that, the double team will have to stop. 

Problem is no one on this team can consistently do that.

I don't think it's bad passes, I think the passes into CO have been great the last 2 games, he has gotten easy buckets (10 for his last 13, no way he could do that without some good entry passes). It's more when they pass the ball. DG waits and waits in the post, the guy on the wing eyes him down, everyone knows its coming. Get it into him quicker, have DG go to work quicker, and this will do a lot to prevent the double team.

[DaCoach]

DG is drawing double teams more often than earlier in the season. The opposition is also denying passes into the post better than previously. Solution is a quality 3pt threat to kick to. Trouble is we don't have that threat. How is that DG's fault? Count the number of paint touches he received last night and then count the number of 1 on 1 touches he had. Don't blame him for the team's limitations.

[setyoursightsnorth]

I'm not calling out his athletic skill, but you guys all hit the nail right on the head. Having a 2 inch vertical and our inability to hit shots consistently dooms us. If they can get the shooters in a grove,  it'll take the pressure off of Davante