Andy Katz: C7 "likely to bump to 10"; Georgetown influence could mean Richmond

[brewcity77]

Sorry fellas, that is some steep competition.

Damn straight it is! No woman can resist the firefighter! 

He's a bi-racial angel.

Oh...you weren't talking about me. D'oh! 

[GGGG]

The ACC is about one defection away from your dream going from "not a chance" to "hey, wait a second."  If you're married, you might want to start perusing the divorce lawyer listings in the yellow pages.

Bullsh*t.  The ACC could lose six schools, which they won't, and it would still be a more attractive placement for ND.

[Windyplayer]

Solid program for many years, private school and a similar mission to many others in the league.

To win?

[Benny B]

Bullsh*t.  The ACC could lose six schools, which they won't, and it would still be a more attractive placement for ND.

ND jumped to the ACC because it wanted a stable home for its O-sports.  I'd like to hear the argument as to why the C7 would be less attractive than the ACC on that front today.

[GGGG]

ND jumped to the ACC because it wanted a stable home for its O-sports.  I'd like to hear the argument as to why the C7 would be less attractive than the ACC on that front today.

Actually ND jumped to the ACC for two reasons...one was a stable home for O sports.  The other was to help with its football scheduling and bowl invitations.  Believe it or not, ND has had trouble as an independent on both accounts and semi-affiliating themselves with a conference helps them in that regard.

Now that being said, if the ACC lost UNC, NC State, UVa, VPI, Clemson and Florida State, it would still be left with the following 8 schools:  BC, Syracuse, Louisville, Duke, Wake, Georgia Tech, Pitt and Miami.

I think that revamped ACC would be...

...better for UND for Olympic Sports than the C7, and
...would give them the support on the football side they need

[Aughnanure]

Actually ND jumped to the ACC for two reasons...one was a stable home for O sports.  The other was to help with its football scheduling and bowl invitations.  Believe it or not, ND has had trouble as an independent on both accounts and semi-affiliating themselves with a conference helps them in that regard.

Now that being said, if the ACC lost UNC, NC State, UVa, VPI, Clemson and Florida State, it would still be left with the following 8 schools:  BC, Syracuse, Louisville, Duke, Wake, Georgia Tech, Pitt and Miami.

I think that revamped ACC would be...

...better for UND for Olympic Sports than the C7, and
...would give them the support on the football side they need

I think the bowl thing is the least of their concerns. They're Notre Dame. Other independents have created affiliations with bowls before but ND just hasnt had to in a while b/c of the Big East. So the ACC offered better bowl tie-ins.

But I still think their ability to compete in the future playoff system and staying independent is #1. That gets harder if suddenly you have to play 5-6 games a year against bad ACC football teams that aren't well-respected by the media.

I don;t see a scenario where the ACC loses only 6 schools though (i.e., as in if they've already lost 6 I think they're losing more). The Big 12 has some ground to make up and would be taking all the southern football schools available along with whatever is left to get to 16 (its not like there will be a better opportunity to poach teams of this quality).

So to me, if we're just assuming B1G and the SEC will be staying at 16:
-4 schools to the SEC and B1G (UNC, NC State, Va Tech, UVA)
-6 schools to the Big XII (Fla St, Clemson, Miami, Ga Tech, Duke, Pittsburgh)
-4 schools left in the ACC (BC, Cuse, Wake Forest, Louisville)
-ACC adds 6 schools to survive (UConn, Temple, Memphis, Cincy, South Florida, Central Florida)

Is that league attractive to ND? That's where it starts to get interesting. But I don't see a scenario where the ACC gets ripped apart and the Big 12 only takes 2 schools.

[honkytonk]

What's so great about the B12? If FSU and Miami are so interested in joining, why havent they yet? Is it because an overwhelming number of teams in the B12 are so unattractive? Is it because playing third fiddle behind Texas and Okie sucks? The GoR has yet to be challanged and quite frankly, Im not sure anyone even knows the language of the terms anyways.

[Aughnanure]

^$50 million buyout.

[honkytonk]

^$50 million buyout.

I think they could have left before that was ever put in place.

[GGGG]

And the fact that the B12 is petitioning the NCAA for a championship game despite only having 10 teams means that they cannot find a suitable partner to accept their invitation.

I actually would be real surprised if we see any major movement anytime soon.

[Aughnanure]

I think they could have left before that was ever put in place.

That's revisionist history at a time when the ACC was still intact. You think Fla St and Clemson are going to prefer the ACC if UNC, NC State, VA Tech and UVA are gone?

The Big 12 may be getting the scraps after the SEC and B1G have their fill, but they're getting all the scraps they want.

[Aughnanure]

And the fact that the B12 is petitioning the NCAA for a championship game despite only having 10 teams means that they cannot find a suitable partner to accept their invitation.

I actually would be real surprised if we see any major movement anytime soon.

And they won't get it. They can't find a suitable partner because the flood gates are still up. Everything will have to wait for what comes of Maryland's exit fees.

[keefe]

Actually ND jumped to the ACC for two reasons...one was a stable home for O sports.  The other was to help with its football scheduling and bowl invitations.  Believe it or not, ND has had trouble as an independent on both accounts and semi-affiliating themselves with a conference helps them in that regard.

Now that being said, if the ACC lost UNC, NC State, UVa, VPI, Clemson and Florida State, it would still be left with the following 8 schools:  BC, Syracuse, Louisville, Duke, Wake, Georgia Tech, Pitt and Miami.

I think that revamped ACC would be...

...better for UND for Olympic Sports than the C7, and
...would give them the support on the football side they need

I agree that affiliation gives stability for their football program but I think the ACC loses the 6 schools you mention plus Duke, GIT, The U and maybe one other. B1G grabs two, SEC grabs 2, and Big 12 needs to take 6; 4 doesn't work for a number of reasons. That means they bring in UConn, Cinn, Memphis, et al and you have Conference USA Football. No way will the sons of Teddy Hesburgh accept that. ND is likely waiting to see how things shake out with the ACC, just like everyone else.

[Benny B]

Actually ND jumped to the ACC for two reasons...one was a stable home for O sports.  The other was to help with its football scheduling and bowl invitations. 

Question: In what world is having to play more ACC football teams and participate in ACC-affiliated bowl games a benefit to ND football?
Answer: In the world where ND can put lipstick on a turd and sell it to the general public.

The ACC gave ND a home for its O-sports in exchange for ND agreeing to schedule a minimum number of ACC teams annually.  This wasn't a win-win for everyone... it was a compromise ND made because having stability for its O-sports was worth the price of ND being forced to play FBS bottom-feeders in the ACC on an annual basis.

[honkytonk]

  This wasn't a win-win for everyone... it was a compromise ND made because having stability for its O-sports was worth the price of ND being forced to play FBS bottom-feeders in the ACC on an annual basis.

ND has deals in place with Pitt, BC, SU and Wake. To roll up all of those games into the ACC deal was a no-brainer.

[tower912]

Why Richmond and not VCU?

[mileskishnish72]

After seeing that, I hate Jeter even more (Bosox fan).

[Dawson Rental]

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=collegebasketballnation&i=TWT&id=74915&w=1cl26&wjb

2. Villanova coach Jay Wright said on the podcast that the toughest part of the potential Big East seven split is not knowing what the nonconference schedule will be like for the next two seasons. The Wildcats have traditionally played Temple in the Big Five as a nonconference game. Unless the seven somehow leave early next season, the two teams will play a conference game or two against each other. But Wright said he's not sure, so the schedule will still be an unknown in February -- whereas in years past it would have been done already. Villanova knows who its six other conference members will be, but the seven will likely bump to 10 whenever it forms a new league. The top two choices will be Xavier and Butler out of the A-10. Questions remain about the third. The seven is likely going to stay private, and not necessarily Catholic. The question will be does the league go south or further west? Don't be surprised if Georgetown influences the decision and tries to get Richmond -- a scholarly school that has a decent hoop tradition and is geographically close enough to the others.

And let us not forget, Richmond has a FCS football team just like Georgetown.

Why Richmond and not VCU?

See above, and Richmond is also a private school that wouldn't subject the league to Freedom of Information Act requests.

[Avenue Commons]

The pro-VCU crowd would go ballistic if Richmond was included over VCU.

Richmond's profile seems more consistent with the C7 and Butler. I concede VCU is a better program, btw.

[JerryWizig]

I think the bowl thing is the least of their concerns. They're Notre Dame. Other independents have created affiliations with bowls before but ND just hasnt had to in a while b/c of the Big East. So the ACC offered better bowl tie-ins.

The bowl tie-in means everything. If Notre Dame was 9-3 last year instead of 12-0, know where they would have wound up? The Belk Bowl. Seriously.

And it's going to be even more important with the changing landscape of the college football playoffs and whatever it is that replaces the BCS. Notre Dame now has a way into those secondary games for the years it goes 11-1 or 10-2 whereas it'd probably be shut out.

The bowl thing was the reason Notre Dame made the switch. NO WAY will they ever go anywhere else unless that conference can offer the same thing.

[honkytonk]

But I still think their ability to compete in the future playoff system and staying independent is #1. That gets harder if suddenly you have to play 5-6 games a year against bad ACC football teams that aren't well-respected by the media.

Some of ND's future opponents:
2014 - Rice, Temple, Northwestern, ASU, Navy, SU, Pitt
Im guessing they will cancel 3 of Rice/Temple/NU/ASU. They will replace those games with 3 opponents from the ACC. Its hard to pick any 3 ACC teams and NOT improve their schedule.

2015 - UMass, SU, Pitt, BC, Wake
All they need to do is add one ACC game since all the other games were already scheduled. Had their agreement with the ACC been in place before they signed a deal with UMass, they would have upgraded their schedule. Its not hard to improve an opponent like UMass.

2016 - Miami, Pitt, SU, BC
All of these games were scheduled prior to the ACC deal so all they need to do is add one more...which isnt tough because they have open dates.

[GGGG]

Question: In what world is having to play more ACC football teams and participate in ACC-affiliated bowl games a benefit to ND football?
Answer: In the world where ND can put lipstick on a turd and sell it to the general public.

The ACC gave ND a home for its O-sports in exchange for ND agreeing to schedule a minimum number of ACC teams annually.  This wasn't a win-win for everyone... it was a compromise ND made because having stability for its O-sports was worth the price of ND being forced to play FBS bottom-feeders in the ACC on an annual basis.

They made the same agreement with the Big East because they needed some help with scheduling and wanted access to better bowl tie-ins. 

Regardless, the ACC minus 6 that I detailed is still a better option than the C7.

[chapman]

The pro-VCU crowd would go ballistic if Richmond was included over VCU.

Richmond's profile seems more consistent with the C7 and Butler. I concede VCU is a better program, btw.

Oh for sure.  I think the biggest thing is just what we saw last week: a bunch of details on C7 split negotiations unearthed through a public records request at USF.  A league that already has at least one public school doesn't really make the distinction for prospective members, but with all privates it could be a barrier to entry.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Last night I had a dream I boinked the Direct TV Genie lady.  I think my dream is more likely to become reality than ND joining this conference.

Hannah Davis...she was in our celebrity beach bowl game on Saturday.  Very nice young lady.  "Dating Jeter" currently and will be in the SI swimsuit edition.    





Erin Andrews, Chrissy Teigen, etc...not a bad way to spend the afternoon.

[Windyplayer]

Hannah Davis...she was in our celebrity beach bowl game on Saturday.  Very nice young lady.  "Dating Jeter" currently and will be in the SI swimsuit edition.    





Erin Andrews, Chrissy Teigen, etc...not a bad way to spend the afternoon.

Of course.