Catholic 7 12th member

[Aughnanure]

Right. It's a mid major with one peak year over a decade of relative success. As you point out its a stepping stone job. I don't mean to diminish what they've done because it is impressive, but its not enough for me to pick them over a fellow Jesuit school.

I'll take SLU and the St Louis market.

This.

Let's rephrase the question - would everyone be getting wet about VCU w/ out that Final 4? Mind you they didn't deserve to get in (let's be real) anyways, and the fact that that is their ONLY appearance beyond the 1st weekend f***ing ever. So pardon me when I roll my eyes when some of you rave about the amazing success VCU has had winning in a lesser conference than SLU and Dayton have.

Admit it. You are choosing them because of a Final 4 and that's it.

[Eldon]

Perhaps I'm being unfair to VCU.

But there was a point in the 90s Valparaiso had a series of NCAA runs out of their conference. Would you want Valpo? What about George Mason now?

It's great they have had some recent success, but I NEVER HEARD of VCU until a few years ago. And I'm a well read, educated, well travelled etc etc person. I think that's why I'm biased against VCU and I admit that might not be fair.

My thoughts exactly.  With all due respect to VCU, I think going with VCU is a bit short-sighted.  As I see it, SLU gives us total new ground for recruiting (VCU overlaps w Gtown a bit), a much bigger TV market, much better academics with a much bigger endowment, and SLU has alums all over the country, while VCU only has two alumni chapters in major cities outside Richmond.  I'm hopeful that the school presidents are shooting for SLU, but Im worried that the coaches, ADs, and (more importantly) FOX will be pushing for VCU.

[Aughnanure]

In case we soon forget, in the ten years prior to joining the big east, MU only went to 4 NCAA tourneys, with one appearance in the final four and one year in the round of 32.  VCU has been better than that run in their last ten.

Yeah....in a much much worse conference.

[dwaderoy2004]

I have no idea what that has to do with tourney success.  MU in the ten years prior to joining the big east won just as many tourney games and went to just as many final fours as VCU has in the last ten years.  Yet we were worthy and they aren't?  If you could direct me to any semblance of tourney success for SLU since the 1950's I'd appreciate it.

[dwaderoy2004]

Perhaps I'm being unfair to VCU.

But there was a point in the 90s Valparaiso had a series of NCAA runs out of their conference. Would you want Valpo? What about George Mason now?

It's great they have had some recent success, but I NEVER HEARD of VCU until a few years ago. And I'm a well read, educated, well travelled etc etc person. I think that's why I'm biased against VCU and I admit that might not be fair.

The difference Is that VCU followed up the final four with another tourney appearance last year and this year they are everybody's sleeper pick to make the final four.  This is called sustained success.  Of which SLU has had none since the 1950's.

[dwaderoy2004]

What I don't understand is that everyone points to SLUs investment in their program as a reason they will make the jump to a top tier program.  VCU has already made that jump!  You're hoping SLU becomes what VCU already is!

[Avenue Commons]

  I'm hopeful that the school presidents are shooting for SLU, but Im worried that the coaches, ADs, and (more importantly) FOX will be pushing for VCU.

Fox could care less about quality of basketball. They only want eyeballs on TV sets, and there's a lot more eyeballs in St Louis.

[Aughnanure]

What I don't understand is that everyone points to SLUs investment in their program as a reason they will make the jump to a top tier program.  VCU has already made that jump!  You're hoping SLU becomes what VCU already is!

I don't think VCU is actually what you think VCU is. Anyways...stalemate!

[bilsu]

Both and no Dayton.  I'll take VCU for the selfish road trip reason.

I have nothing against Dayton, but I think the conference would be better with only one team in any state.

[🏀]

I have nothing against Dayton, but I think the conference would be better with only one team in any state.

+1 PTM.

[Avenue Commons]

What I don't understand is that everyone points to SLUs investment in their program as a reason they will make the jump to a top tier program.  VCU has already made that jump!  You're hoping SLU becomes what VCU already is!

True, to a degree. But the sense is St Louis can get there and stay there. The fear is VCU will fade back to CAA oblivion. The Final 4 was an absolute fluke. Hate to be harsh, but it was. They barely made the tourney!

You make a fair point, though. These discussions are good "problems" for a nascent conference to have.

Answer this question for me, though: Would you rather your son play at SLU or VCU?

[Eldon]

The difference Is that VCU followed up the final four with another tourney appearance last year and this year they are everybody's sleeper pick to make the final four.  This is called sustained success.  Of which SLU has had none since the 1950's.

UW-Milwaukee followed up their Sweet 16 appearance with a tourney appearance too.  Gmason also followed up its Final Four with a tourney appearance, too.  Where are those programs today?

I think there's no doubt that recently, and maybe even the foreseeable future, VCU is a better bball program than SLU, but is that recent success worth more than institutional similarity, a new market, superior academics, etc.?

[dwaderoy2004]

True, to a degree. But the sense is St Louis can get there and stay there. The fear is VCU will fade back to CAA oblivion. The Final 4 was an absolute fluke. Hate to be harsh, but it was. They barely made the tourney!

You make a fair point, though. These discussions are good "problems" for a nascent conference to have.

Answer this question for me, though: Would you rather your son play at SLU or VCU?

I'd want my kid at whatever school ends up in our new conference, lol.

[dwaderoy2004]

UW-Milwaukee followed up their Sweet 16 appearance with a tourney appearance too.  Gmason also followed up its Final Four with a tourney appearance, too.  Where are those programs today?

I think there's no doubt that recently, and maybe even the foreseeable future, VCU is a better bball program than SLU, but is that recent success worth more than institutional similarity, a new market, superior academics, etc.?

What about this year?  VCU is not fading.  Moving to a new conference would legitimize them just as much as adding SLU would prop them up.  And honestly, the institutional dissimalarity is part of the reason I want them.  I hate pigeon-holing the conference as "the small, private school league".  I understand the TV market point.

[Eldon]

What about this year?  VCU is not fading.  Moving to a new conference would legitimize them just as much as adding SLU would prop them up.  And honestly, the institutional dissimalarity is part of the reason I want them.  I hate pigeon-holing the conference as "the small, private school league".  I understand the TV market point.

Point well-defended.  I like the pigeon-hole of 'the small private school Midwest-East Coast league' so agree to disagree.  But again, the new, bigger TV market AND a whole new recruiting ground (STL/Missouri) is crucial, in my opinion.

[warriorchick]

I do have one concern about the c7 league.  The B10 got Talib Kweli to do their theme song.  I think for legitimacy reasons, we need to get Freeway (the rapper) or Birdman to do a theme song for the conference.

I am sure the Vatican Choir could put together a peppy little number.

[chapman]

This.

Let's rephrase the question - would everyone be getting wet about VCU w/ out that Final 4? Mind you they didn't deserve to get in (let's be real) anyways, and the fact that that is their ONLY appearance beyond the 1st weekend f***ing ever. So pardon me when I roll my eyes when some of you rave about the amazing success VCU has had winning in a lesser conference than SLU and Dayton have.

Admit it. You are choosing them because of a Final 4 and that's it.

So on what grounds are SLU and Dayton being chosen?  VCU's lone Final Four was in 2011, Dayton's was in 1967, SLU's was never.  VCU has five NCAA appearances in the past decade, Dayton three, SLU one.  The Final Four happened - and Final Fours have enormous benefits for a program, as we have been firsthand, so why strip them of it?  I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to discount VCU's recent successes when Dayton and SLU haven't done anything noteworthy in forever.  Sure VCU's won in a "lesser" conference, but it's better than simply not winning in a better one.

[Aughnanure]

So on what grounds are SLU and Dayton being chosen?  VCU's lone Final Four was in 2011, Dayton's was in 1967, SLU's was never.  VCU has five NCAA appearances in the past decade, Dayton three, SLU one.  The Final Four happened - and Final Fours have enormous benefits for a program, as we have been firsthand, so why strip them of it?  I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to discount VCU's recent successes when Dayton and SLU haven't done anything noteworthy in forever.  Sure VCU's won in a "lesser" conference, but it's better than simply not winning in a better one.

I've listed my reasons for wanting SLU many times. Better academics, better facilities, better financial assets, better geographical fit, better institutional fit, better arena, better market. SLU isn't the #1 choice. It's #5. Don;t try to trick yourself into believing VCU is a Xavier.

[Mr. Nielsen]

You mean if Jeff Capel were still there?  Or Anthony Grant?  VCU has been good for a decade.

Good points! Some people can't think to far back. Plus, I won't call the CAA a crappy league.

[dwaderoy2004]

I've listed my reasons for wanting SLU many times. Better academics, better facilities, better financial assets, better geographical fit, better institutional fit, better arena, better market. SLU isn't the #1 choice. It's #5. Don;t try to trick yourself into believing VCU is a Xavier.

Better geographical fit?  VCU is pretty much right in the middle of all of the current and potential members.

[Avenue Commons]

Better geographical fit?  VCU is pretty much right in the middle of all of the current and potential members.

Huh? Richmond, Virginia was the capital of the Confederacy.

What C7 or prospective schools are south or east of it? Or even due west?

[dwaderoy2004]

Huh? Richmond, Virginia was the capital of the Confederacy.

What C7 or prospective schools are south or east of it? Or even due west?

Oh man, you got to brush up on your geography.  All the C7 except MU and Depaul are east of Richmond.  Georgetown is only about 100 miles NE of Richmond.  SLU is actually just as south as VCU, and if added over them would be the southernmost school and 2nd westernmost after Creighton.

Added:  to clarify, I was referring to middle only in east/west terms.

[Avenue Commons]

Oh man, you got to brush up on your geography.  All the C7 except MU and Depaul are east of Richmond.  Georgetown is only about 100 miles NE of Richmond.  SLU is actually just as south as VCU, and if added over them would be the southernmost school and 2nd westernmost after Creighton.

Added:  to clarify, I was referring to middle only in east/west terms.

You mean all of the C7 but MU and DPU are more eastern than VCU. None of them are to the east of Richmond. 

Or south. St Louis is more to the north than Richmond latitudinally. Please refer to a map.

Culturally, Richmond is far, far away from the home cities of the C7.

[The Process]

You mean all of the C7 but MU and DPU are more eastern than VCU. None of them are to the east of Richmond. 

... DC (Georgetown) is to the east of Richmond.

... Philly (Villanova) is to the east of Richmond.

... South Orange, NJ (Seton Hall) is to the east of Richmond.

... NYC (St. Johns) is to the east of Richmond.

Please refer to a map.

[dwaderoy2004]

You mean all of the C7 but MU and DPU are more eastern than VCU. None of them are to the east of Richmond.  

Or south. St Louis is more to the north than Richmond latitudinally. Please refer to a map.

Culturally, Richmond is far, far away from the home cities of the C7.

Are you serious?  All of the C7 but MU and DePaul are east of Richmond.  That's a fact.

St. Louis is about 60 miles or so more north than Richmond, which, as I said, would still make it the southernmost school in the new conference if added over VCU.

I just don't see how SLU is in any way, shape or form a better geographical fit for the conference than VCU.

Don't care about culture, that has nothing to do with geography.