We Need Better Players

[GGGG]

There is a correlation between accuracy and tenure on this board?

Probably not, but there have been a rash of newbie posters lately with rather bizarre opinions.

[setyoursightsnorth]

While on the topic of next year's class and the classes after that, I want to talk a bit about Diamond Stone. I'm sure you guys are familiar with him (Sophomore at Dominican, currently ranked 1st in the class of 2015 according to ESPN, Marquette hopeful). I just wonder if his exposure isn't due to Duane also being on the same team. Diamond is a huge body at 6'10, but I don't think that he can stay as that number 1 player, or even a top 10 player of his class (I realize he has two years left and that the rankings always change). I think that his success may be due to Duane, as he is the bigger threat on that team. Will Stone fall down the rankings? Or do you guys think that he will develop into a much better play with the additional pressures of being the possible go-to guy?

[hairy worthen]

Probably not, but there have been a rash of newbie posters lately with rather bizarre opinions.

Bizarre opinions??  On MUScoop??   The hell you say.

[warriorchick]

While on the topic of next year's class and the classes after that, I want to talk a bit about Diamond Stone. I'm sure you guys are familiar with him (Sophomore at Dominican, currently ranked 1st in the class of 2015 according to ESPN, Marquette hopeful). I just wonder if his exposure isn't due to Duane also being on the same team. Diamond is a huge body at 6'10, but I don't think that he can stay as that number 1 player, or even a top 10 player of his class (I realize he has two years left and that the rankings always change). I think that his success may be due to Duane, as he is the bigger threat on that team. Will Stone fall down the rankings? Or do you guys think that he will develop into a much better play with the additional pressures of being the possible go-to guy?

See that box in the upper right hand of your screen?  Type the words "Diamond Stone" into it, click the word "search" and see what happens.

[reinko]

See that box in the upper right hand of your screen?  Type the words "Diamond Stone" into it, click the word "search" and see what happens.

[setyoursightsnorth]

that is exactly what happened.

[MUfan12]

Probably not, but there have been a rash of newbie posters lately with rather bizarre opinions.

Seriously. How many screen names can Freeway create?

[GGGG]

Seriously. How many screen names can Freeway create?

Or warthog.

[Freeport Warrior]

The fact of the matter is that Wilson goes up against those great point guards a few times a year at most.

GERMANTOWN!  They have Fischer, and then..........?  The Showalter kid?

I appreciate your vigor, but you just don't know what you're talking about in a couple spots (others would say I'm being too polite).

Wilson plays a gruesome schedule ALL YEAR LONG traveling ALL OVER THE COUNTRY playing against THE TOP AAU TALENT IN THE COUNTRY. High school basketball is what 20 games? He plays that much in June. Sure, he needs to hit the weight room, but this guy is going to make everyone forget Cadougan real quick. And some other point you brought up about him not being able to get his shot off is flat out ridiculous -- he has a pretty quick release.

On to your Germantown lament. They are not Simeon, but they are a great team. Over the past two years they have been the definition of a complete team. They have shooters, they have size, they have ball handlers. They might not have the athleticism of some, but collectively they don't have too many flaws and go hard. When you say, who else? They lucked into those Bearden brothers transferring this year, but they are solid players. Little Showalter can shoot. His brother is on a Big 10 court nightly. And the point guard from last year, Mongon, had one hell of a motor and is playing somewhere on scholarship. While WI isn't the hotbed of talent, most high schools have a Looney or a Stone and no one else, and they have a system that focuses on that one person. Germantown has a proven system and players who buy into that system. Surround a couple D1 kids with a bunch of solid D2 and D3 kids and this is what you get. They are a fun team to watch.

I will give you one on Burton. The Vander comparison is legit. I don't know where he fits in, but I'm sure Buzz will find a place for him. I see him as the bruising slasher who can get to the rim like Wade in college. Hopefully his shot will develop, but the make-up of his fellow recruits doesn't require him to be a lights out outside shooter. When stopped with a double team, he will have guys to kick it out to who will make the defense pay. That will open up both areas and there is no doubt that Burton can finish strong every time.

Finally, you say we need better players? You need a reality check. With the bust of the country's best basketball conference at our feet, this is one of the best collections of players (on paper) we have EVER had coming in. Moving ahead, it won't get easier. Just imagine if Buzz actually left this off-season or our new conference collapsed.  Enjoy the ride.

[jesmu84]

I'm confused...

"We need better players!"

Posters point out that Buzz has recruited a top 10 class for next season.

"No, freshman aren't better because they don't produce as freshman. We need better players!"

WTF?! Where do you expect these players to come from? Kentucky, Duke, Kansas transfers? Teams improve by recruiting talent and then further developing that talent. Buzz has been increasingly doing that since Day 1.

I really have no idea what you're talking about, and I'm not sure you do either.

This HAS to be a troll. HAS to be.

[keefe]

Or warthog.

That's not me.

[MerrittsMustache]

I'm confused...

"We need better players!"

Posters point out that Buzz has recruited a top 10 class for next season.

"No, freshman aren't better because they don't produce as freshman. We need better players!"

WTF?! Where do you expect these players to come from? Kentucky, Duke, Kansas transfers? Teams improve by recruiting talent and then further developing that talent. Buzz has been increasingly doing that since Day 1.

I really have no idea what you're talking about, and I'm not sure you do either.

This HAS to be a troll. HAS to be.

He wants LW to acquire some new players via free agency and possibly trades, even if it means giving up some high round draft picks.

[leever]

He wants LW to acquire some new players via free agency and possibly trades, even if it means giving up some high round draft picks.

Isn't that how we got Lockett?

[MarquetteDano]

There is a correlation between accuracy and tenure on this board? Good Lord but you are delusional

I would say, yes there is a correlation.  Only a correlation so it isnt exact.  Certainly not delusional. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Isn't that how we got Lockett?

Yep, they got him for cash considerations. I believe MU also traded a prospect named DJ something for Jamil Wilson.

[keefe]

Yep, they got him for cash considerations. I believe MU also traded a prospect named DJ something for Jamil Wilson.

Whatever happened to DJ Newbill?

[leever]

Whatever happened to DJ Newbill?

Straight to the NBA

[Dawson Rental]

So when our MU players are practicing against themselves every day they aren't playing against Big East players? Huh... Here I thought MU was a Big East team... But I'm the dumb one on this board...

You must be because you walked right into it.

Who will MU players be practicing against next year?  Why I think that it will be those freshmen players you described thusly;

"The gap in competition from a night to night basis between a high school senior and a Big East player is INSANELY HUGE!  This is why freshman oftentimes have a very difficult time adjusting immediately to college basketball.  It happens to all but the very very top freshman in the country.  It will happen to Wilson, and Burton, and Johnson, and Dawson.  What used to be enough space to shoot a jumper for them will all of a sudden become a smaller window because of the increased size and athleticism of opponents.  What used to be getting a half step on a defender will become giving up a half step to the defender.  What used to be just out jumping a player for a rebound will become having to get into the guy to get the rebound.  College ball is a whole different animal, regardless of whether you play Tyus Jones once a year or not."

[TeamOh]

You must be because you walked right into it.

Who will MU players be practicing against next year?  Why I think that it will be those freshmen players you described thusly;

"The gap in competition from a night to night basis between a high school senior and a Big East player is INSANELY HUGE!  This is why freshman oftentimes have a very difficult time adjusting immediately to college basketball.  It happens to all but the very very top freshman in the country.  It will happen to Wilson, and Burton, and Johnson, and Dawson.  What used to be enough space to shoot a jumper for them will all of a sudden become a smaller window because of the increased size and athleticism of opponents.  What used to be getting a half step on a defender will become giving up a half step to the defender.  What used to be just out jumping a player for a rebound will become having to get into the guy to get the rebound.  College ball is a whole different animal, regardless of whether you play Tyus Jones once a year or not."

What are you talking about?  My point remains 100% relavant.  What you just quoted me saying was to the response that Duane Wilson has proven himself against top level 2014 recruits.  That happened in 1 game against Tyus Jones.  Once in 365 days.  I get it, he has played other top level point guard recruits.  But again, that isn't every single day of the year like current Marquette players (Derrick Wilson, Vander Blue, etc.) are doing.  Current Marquette players are improving much, much, much more playing against Big East players every single day (Marquette players in practice, other Big East players in games) than current high school seniors at Dominican High School, Vincent High School, a high school in Memphis, a high school in New Mexico, and even a JUCO.  It's NOT a difficult concept to understand.  It really isn't.  You get better by playing better competition.  Right now Wilson, Burton, Johnson, Dawson aren't at Marquette, while the Marquette players are.  The competition at Marquette is better than the competition in high school.  There will be a learning curve for the freshman next year while they adjust to the increase in competition, as they have not faced that competition day in and day out like they will starting next year.  I didn't really think I had to walk people through this idea step by step, but I was wrong.

To all of those who are pointing out that our class is a top 10 class for next year...HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY THAT I THINK NEXT YEAR'S CLASS IS A GREAT START!  GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS!  IT IS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND!  So I will say it one more time for those of you who have a hard time with reading comprehension (I thought my Marquette degree meant something, but some of these peoples' understanding - or lack thereof - of some pretty simple thoughts makes me wonder...) I THINK NEXT YEAR'S CLASS IS A GREAT START TO GETTING BETTER PLAYERS!  But I do not think those freshman are going to make an immediate impact, as not very many freshman players do.  It's not hard to understand this.  I don't think the class is crappy.  I think the 2013 needs to be the standard from now on.  Because the players on this year's team are not good enough to compete for a Final Four.  2013 will be if the 2014, 2015, and 2016 classes are good enough.

[MuMark]

Yep I think you nailed it.

We need better players...as long as they aren't freshmen because freshmen take time to develope.....

Oh and they can't be from Milwaukee or Wisconsin because the basketball stinks in this state and this city.....

I wonder how other schools deal with this vexing problem?

I'm confused...

"We need better players!"

Posters point out that Buzz has recruited a top 10 class for next season.

"No, freshman aren't better because they don't produce as freshman. We need better players!"

WTF?! Where do you expect these players to come from? Kentucky, Duke, Kansas transfers? Teams improve by recruiting talent and then further developing that talent. Buzz has been increasingly doing that since Day 1.

I really have no idea what you're talking about, and I'm not sure you do either.

This HAS to be a troll. HAS to be.

[GGGG]

He wants LW to acquire some new players via free agency and possibly trades, even if it means giving up some high round draft picks.

LW better not get us in salary cap trouble or Buzz is GONE!!!

[Blackhat]

[TeamOh]

I appreciate your vigor, but you just don't know what you're talking about in a couple spots (others would say I'm being too polite).

Wilson plays a gruesome schedule ALL YEAR LONG traveling ALL OVER THE COUNTRY playing against THE TOP AAU TALENT IN THE COUNTRY. High school basketball is what 20 games? He plays that much in June. Sure, he needs to hit the weight room, but this guy is going to make everyone forget Cadougan real quick. And some other point you brought up about him not being able to get his shot off is flat out ridiculous -- he has a pretty quick release.

On to your Germantown lament. They are not Simeon, but they are a great team. Over the past two years they have been the definition of a complete team. They have shooters, they have size, they have ball handlers. They might not have the athleticism of some, but collectively they don't have too many flaws and go hard. When you say, who else? They lucked into those Bearden brothers transferring this year, but they are solid players. Little Showalter can shoot. His brother is on a Big 10 court nightly. And the point guard from last year, Mongon, had one hell of a motor and is playing somewhere on scholarship. While WI isn't the hotbed of talent, most high schools have a Looney or a Stone and no one else, and they have a system that focuses on that one person. Germantown has a proven system and players who buy into that system. Surround a couple D1 kids with a bunch of solid D2 and D3 kids and this is what you get. They are a fun team to watch.

I will give you one on Burton. The Vander comparison is legit. I don't know where he fits in, but I'm sure Buzz will find a place for him. I see him as the bruising slasher who can get to the rim like Wade in college. Hopefully his shot will develop, but the make-up of his fellow recruits doesn't require him to be a lights out outside shooter. When stopped with a double team, he will have guys to kick it out to who will make the defense pay. That will open up both areas and there is no doubt that Burton can finish strong every time.

Finally, you say we need better players? You need a reality check. With the bust of the country's best basketball conference at our feet, this is one of the best collections of players (on paper) we have EVER had coming in. Moving ahead, it won't get easier. Just imagine if Buzz actually left this off-season or our new conference collapsed.  Enjoy the ride.

Wilson will not make us forget about Cadougan "real quick."  Wilson will get 7th man minutes as a freshman.  He is not going to come in and average over 10, 5, and 3 (Cadougan's numbers so far this season).  While Cadougan is too inconsistent, he is not a bad player at all.  I like Cadougan's game for a point guard.  He runs an offense.  That should be the first job of a point guard.  A point guard's first job is not to score the basketball.

I agree that Wilson has a quick release, but this is an honest question...have you ever sat on the floor for a Division 1 men's college basketball game?  Shots that are considered "wide open" in the college game are highly contested shots in the high school game.  The margin for error is much, much smaller in college than it is in high school.  If you get an open look you better take it quickly or that open look will quickly be closed out on in college ball.

As far as Germantown goes, yes they are a good high school basketball team.  I will agree with you on that.  But they are NOT so good that they should be on a 40+ game winning streak and averaging a margin of victory over FOURTY POINTS!  Even if they were as good of a program as Simeon (AKA occasionally competing for the mythical "high school national champion"), they should not be winning games by that much.  Simeon's team last year, which finished the season ranked 11th in the country and had division 1 recruits coming off of their bench, won a total of 3 games by 40 or more points, with 2 more close to that.  They had many games that they won by single digits, and multiple games where they won by a single possession.  Germantown is winning games by FOURTY POINTS PER GAME!  I don't care how good they are (again good, but with the way they beat teams you would think they would be legendary), they should not be winning games by 40 every single night.

Let's see how Brookfield Central does tomorrow against Chester High School from Pennsylvania, the number 9 team in the country.  Brookfield Central lost to Germantown on a buzzer-beating put-back layup over Fischer's head.  They really should've lost the game, as Brookfield Central had the ball out of bounds with 40 seconds left with the game tied and got a REAL quick 5 second call against them.  If Brookfield Central can hang with Chester then maybe Germantown is really that legit not only in Wisconsin, but anywhere.  If Brookfield Central gets blown out then I think the question is really answered.

[Wareagle]

If Brookfield Central gets blown out then I think the question is really answered.

If Brookfield Central gets blown out then they need better players.

[TeamOh]

If Brookfield Central gets blown out then they need better players.

You're right about that.  They're one of the top teams in the WIAA.  Won't look too great if they lose by 60.