+$500M/12 Year Catholic 7 TV Deal

[Zephyr820]

You should probably take a report by ESPN on a FOX deal with a grain of salt, but if accurate Xavier and Butler will not join the conference.

Fox would then be unwilling to pay the same amount for a different inventory.

No one of consequence is going to take those terms on anything other than a very short-term basis.  The new teams aren't being added for "numbers" but for credibility.  These 1/3 of the conference teams.

[Xbus]

From an X prospective I imagine we would still join the league. However it really should be only for a limited period of time to allow the c7 to pay off exit fees etc. Xavier is going to be marketed as a premier team and our games will be marketed as big conf games for the network georgetown/Xavier marquette/Xavier etc will be huge games more so than most of the other teams in the league anyway.

For me personally it's less about the money and more about respect. It would kind of suck to feel like second class citizens in a new conf.

[jficke13]

Just a thought re: Xavier and other top level schools in mid-major conferences. If Butler, Dayton, and SLU join the C7, but Xavier was hesitant to leave its NCAA credits behind, wouldn't their analysis change on account of the changed A10 membership? Would they give up moving to a better conference and higher TV money in exchange for keeping NCAA credits and playing in a gutted A10?

[JD]

From an X prospective I imagine we would still join the league. However it really should be only for a limited period of time to allow the c7 to pay off exit fees etc. Xavier is going to be marketed as a premier team and our games will be marketed as big conf games for the network georgetown/Xavier marquette/Xavier etc will be huge games more so than most of the other teams in the league anyway.

For me personally it's less about the money and more about respect. It would kind of suck to feel like second class citizens in a new conf.

So from your prospective, would you rather be the top A-10 team with mediocore to below par competition, or would you rather play in a conference with the likes of Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova and be known as "second class citizens"  I don't think Xavier is at the level of those 3 schools, but i don't think they're that far behind either.  

Your scenario kind of reminds me of Marquette when they left CUSA, obviously MU wasn't the powerhouse, UCONN, Cuse,Georgetown, etc were, but over time they earned the respect throughout competing every year with those bigger name schools.  The payday wouldn't be too bad either if you were in the new conference.

[Zephyr820]

Xavier isn't "behind" any of those programs

[Benny B]

as fair as us cashing UCONNs

UConn's 2012 check to the Big East was $200,000 more (about 7% higher) than MU's check.

EDIT: In addition, the Big East is due $11.6M over the next 5 years from MU's tourney shares to date.  Only three other schools - UCONN (12.9M), Louisville (14.3M), and Syracuse (13.4M) will earn more for the Big East.

As a matter of comparison amongst the C7 (over the next 5 years): MU $11.6M, Villanova $8.5M, Georgetown $7.3M, St. John's $1.3M.  Nobody else breaks the $250,000 mark.


Who is getting screwed most by the C7 breakaway.... that's right: Marquette.

[mu03eng]

Just a thought re: Xavier and other top level schools in mid-major conferences. If Butler, Dayton, and SLU join the C7, but Xavier was hesitant to leave its NCAA credits behind, wouldn't their analysis change on account of the changed A10 membership? Would they give up moving to a better conference and higher TV money in exchange for keeping NCAA credits and playing in a gutted A10?

This

Based on everything that's been discussed in this thread, the only school that really has any reason to hesitate on pulling the trigger is Xavier.  And I can't see how holding on to the credits is worth having an even lower payout when the reduced value of the A-10 comes up for renegotiation at the end of the current contract.

Ultimately, the C7 get a founders share of initial revenue and then say year 4 or 5 of a 12 year contract that sunsets and everyone is equal.  They could even put in a performance clause in the contract that the sunset disappears sooner based on certain achievements within the athletic realm(number of tourney appearances, etc)

[chapman]

Who is getting screwed most by the C7 breakaway.... that's right: Marquette.

Considering the C7 has been said to be taking $42M or $60M in collected BE exit fee money with them, I think it's pretty safe to say they will also be taking their tournament shares.

[mu03eng]

I love the idea of joining forces with the Fox Sports Network platform.  You get establish faces(EA, Gus, etc), cross promotion with other sports, proven content delivery team, and you can create cross league matches like B1G-ACC challenge that ESPN does.

This makes almost entirely too much sense.  Also think this means we are definitely going 12 and leaving the BEAST after this season.

[Pakuni]

This

Based on everything that's been discussed in this thread, the only school that really has any reason to hesitate on pulling the trigger is Xavier.  And I can't see how holding on to the credits is worth having an even lower payout when the reduced value of the A-10 comes up for renegotiation at the end of the current contract.

Ultimately, the C7 get a founders share of initial revenue and then say year 4 or 5 of a 12 year contract that sunsets and everyone is equal.  They could even put in a performance clause in the contract that the sunset disappears sooner based on certain achievements within the athletic realm(number of tourney appearances, etc)

Agreed.
I don't think anyone is suggesting a permanent imbalance in the distribution of revenues, but the C7 schools deserve some added compensation initially for being the ones funding the startup costs, negotiating deals, and taking on the risks associated with founding a new conference. Making the new additions equal partners from day one - at least on revenue sharing - would be unfair to the C7 schools that are doing all the legwork to make this happen.

[GOO]

This is no different than a real estate developer or business creator.  I'd expect the C7 to get more initially.  For the sake of stability, I'd expect it to level out over time and for sure by the time next TV contract comes up for negotiation.

I'd suspect this reaction is a fan thing, not people that know how conferences and business work.

[honkytonk]

UConn's 2012 check to the Big East was $200,000 more (about 7% higher) than MU's check.

EDIT: In addition, the Big East is due $11.6M over the next 5 years from MU's tourney shares to date.  Only three other schools - UCONN (12.9M), Louisville (14.3M), and Syracuse (13.4M) will earn more for the Big East.

As a matter of comparison amongst the C7 (over the next 5 years): MU $11.6M, Villanova $8.5M, Georgetown $7.3M, St. John's $1.3M.  Nobody else breaks the $250,000 mark.


Who is getting screwed most by the C7 breakaway.... that's right: Marquette.

Maybe strictly in terms of ncaa shares, yes. IMO, the team that is getting screwed the most is Georgetown. Then probably Nova and SJU. Those three teams have way more history with the football playing members and their rivalries are, for the most part, dead. Plus, you have to look at the impact of attendance. Nova plays MU on campus most of the time IIRC. I think they will end up playing more games there than the Wachovia Center because they wont draw as well. GU received a lot of notoriety and because of it rivalry with SU. That is now OOC and prob wont be as big as it has been. SJU always receved a nice little bump in attendance due to the fact that they were located in the heart of the conference. I think the center of the new conference is more midwestern now.

[mu03eng]

Maybe strictly in terms of ncaa shares, yes. IMO, the team that is getting screwed the most is Georgetown. Then probably Nova and SJU. Those three teams have way more history with the football playing members and their rivalries are, for the most part, dead. Plus, you have to look at the impact of attendance. Nova plays MU on campus most of the time IIRC. I think they will end up playing more games there than the Wachovia Center because they wont draw as well. GU received a lot of notoriety and because of it rivalry with SU. That is now OOC and prob wont be as big as it has been. SJU always receved a nice little bump in attendance due to the fact that they were located in the heart of the conference. I think the center of the new conference is more midwestern now.

Yeah but you are comparing against things that weren't happening anyway.  It's not Georgetown is choosing C7, X, Butler versus games against Cuse and Pitt.  Those teams are gone regardless, Georgetown is taking the best remaining teams, adding some new life blood and excitement making a better deal than what they have.  Nobody is getting screwed in this deal, the tide is raising all boats including DePaul, Seton Hall, etc.

[Benny B]

Maybe strictly in terms of ncaa shares, yes. IMO, the team that is getting screwed the most is Georgetown. Then probably Nova and SJU. Those three teams have way more history with the football playing members and their rivalries are, for the most part, dead. Plus, you have to look at the impact of attendance. Nova plays MU on campus most of the time IIRC. I think they will end up playing more games there than the Wachovia Center because they wont draw as well. GU received a lot of notoriety and because of it rivalry with SU. That is now OOC and prob wont be as big as it has been. SJU always receved a nice little bump in attendance due to the fact that they were located in the heart of the conference. I think the center of the new conference is more midwestern now.

Understood... I was speaking strictly in terms of the tournament shares with respect to who is "contributing" vs. who is on "conference welfare."  MU has been disproportionately paying into the conference kitty since joining the Big East, so barring some sort of A-10 model where teams retain the lion's share of their own shares in the C7+5, this is simply the price of success.

Believe me, in the grand scheme, everyone is better off in the C7+5.

[JD]

Xavier isn't "behind" any of those programs

I'm not going to spend much time on this but here's a head to head comparrison on NCAA tournament success alone. 

Xavier:

Tournament Appearances: 23
Final Fours: 0
Championships: 0
Win-Loss: 21-23

Marquette:

Tournament Appearances: 30
Final Fours: 3
Championships: 1 (1977)
Win-Loss: 38-31

[ChicosBailBonds]

So from your prospective, would you rather be the top A-10 team with mediocore to below par competition, or would you rather play in a conference with the likes of Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova and be known as "second class citizens"  I don't think Xavier is at the level of those 3 schools, but i don't think they're that far behind either.  

I don't know if you realize this, but if the C7 was their own league right now, it would be ranked one spot ahead of the A-10 in the power ratings and behind the Pac 12.  Though the Big East is 2nd overall, the C7 on their own would rate out at .5494 while the A-10 (including their dregs) is at .5440.  The A10 right now is rated higher than the SEC, MVC, WCC, etc.  These are based on expected finishes.

Most of the A-10 schools we are talking about adding to the C7 are doing better than the C7, at least this year.  Xavier is having a down year and they are one that is underperforming at this point.

[ChicosBailBonds]

CBB:

What is your guess here ... Assuming the reporting on the fox deal is accurate, does NBC Sports counter and the number goes higher.  Or is this a lock-out bid and this is as good as it gets?

You could see a bidding war, who knows.  I'm not wired into NBC's stuff at all.  I'm sure I'll hear some interesting quips this week at the conference.  At this point, I don't even know how accurate the original story is and what does it include in terms of rights, how many teams it assumed, etc.  So many unknowns.

[JD]

I don't know if you realize this, but if the C7 was their own league right now, it would be ranked one spot ahead of the A-10 in the power ratings and behind the Pac 12.  Though the Big East is 2nd overall, the C7 on their own would rate out at .5494 while the A-10 (including their dregs) is at .5440.  The A10 right now is rated higher than the SEC, MVC, WCC, etc.  These are based on expected finishes.

Most of the A-10 schools we are talking about adding to the C7 are doing better than the C7, at least this year.  Xavier is having a down year and they are one that is underperforming at this point.

What's your point?  It's one year...  If you're trying to say the A-10 is better than the C7 you're f**** nuts. So far this year, maybe.  I don't understand what you're trying to say.  So because the A-10 is projected to finish better than the assuming C7, should MU go to the A-10 since it's obviously better?

Hope i don't need teal on that last part.

[Pakuni]

I don't know if you realize this, but if the C7 was their own league right now, it would be ranked one spot ahead of the A-10 in the power ratings and behind the Pac 12.  Though the Big East is 2nd overall, the C7 on their own would rate out at .5494 while the A-10 (including their dregs) is at .5440.  The A10 right now is rated higher than the SEC, MVC, WCC, etc.  These are based on expected finishes.

We probably ought to judge these things by a broader set of criteria than the power ratings at the start of conference play in one particular season. Factors like recent success trends, long-term success, tournament success, market size, fanbase size, tradition, national profile, revenue potential, etc., might fit into the equation somewhere.
And, if it does, Xavier, Butler, etc. will compare their current conference mates with their potential conference mates and find the equation leans heavily in the C7's favor.

[brewcity77]

What's your point?  It's one year...  If you're trying to say the A-10 is better than the C7 you're f**** nuts. So far this year, maybe.  I don't understand what you're trying to say.  So because the A-10 is projected to finish better than the assuming C7, should MU go to the A-10 since it's obviously better?

Hope i don't need teal on that last part.

Did you even read his post? He said specifically that the C7 would be rated ahead of the A10. The cream of the A10 might be better than the C7, but taken as a whole we would be better than them and with them we will be a top league. Pretty sure that's what CBB was trying to say, can't really see how anyone would take umbridge with that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not much new, but here you go


http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2013/01/07/Media/Catholic-Seven.aspx

[JD]

Did you even read his post? He said specifically that the C7 would be rated ahead of the A10. The cream of the A10 might be better than the C7, but taken as a whole we would be better than them and with them we will be a top league. Pretty sure that's what CBB was trying to say, can't really see how anyone would take umbridge with that.

In other news the sky is blue....

Again, not sure what projections at the end of the year have to do with anything relating to what conference is better.

[Tugg Speedman]

I don't know if you realize this, but if the C7 was their own league right now, it would be ranked one spot ahead of the A-10 in the power ratings and behind the Pac 12.  Though the Big East is 2nd overall, the C7 on their own would rate out at .5494 while the A-10 (including their dregs) is at .5440.  The A10 right now is rated higher than the SEC, MVC, WCC, etc.  These are based on expected finishes.

Most of the A-10 schools we are talking about adding to the C7 are doing better than the C7, at least this year.  Xavier is having a down year and they are one that is under performing at this point.

This is like the whining that the B1G is far behind the SEC, B12 and Pac012 in FB.  That they are the fourth conference?  Wrong from a media and attention standpoint, they are number 1.  Fact that they are 1-9 in the ten Rose Bowls and 4 - 13 in all January bowls is irrelevant.

Likewise the A-10's record is irrelevant.  The C7 generate more media attention and will be a more important conference.

[honkytonk]

The Catholic schools voted to dissolve the BE. However, Im not sure that means that we can simply walk out the door with the tournament credits earned by UConn, USF and UC. My guess is that all of their credits will be given back to them.

If that isnt the case, then we can assume a lengthy and costly lawsuit. At the end of the day, how many credits will essentially go towards paying attorneys? They always win in the end.

I think the same goes for the accumulated exit fees. Those three schools will likely get some of the pie.

[GGGG]

The C7 didn't vote to dissolve the Big East.  The voted to leave the Big East.  Everything from there on is up for negotiation...tourney credits, exit fees, etc.