+$500M/12 Year Catholic 7 TV Deal

[brewcity77]

In what Universe does DuhPaul deserve $5 mill a year?? $5 a year MAYBE.

Am I the only one sick of this whole "DuhPaul" thing that is going on constantly? I realize people don't like their lack of success, but if not for "DuhPaul", we never would have been invited to the Great Midwest back in 1991. Consequently, we also probably wouldn't have been part of the C-USA setup a few years after that, and never would have been admitted to the Big East.

20 years and change ago, our program was absolutely down in the dumps, arguably lower than where DePaul is now, and because of our association with them, we were able to build up to where we're at right now. I think we owe them the same benefit right now while their program has taken a turn towards the depths we were at back in the late 1980s.

Without DePaul, we're probably UW-Milwaukee's punching bag, assuming we even still have a D1 basketball team. They deserve our thanks and patience, not our mockery. And it's not just you, guru, just tired of seeing it constantly these past few months. For any Marquette fans, DePaul deserves everything they're getting and then some.

[MarquetteDano]

Without DePaul, we're probably UW-Milwaukee's punching bag, assuming we even still have a D1 basketball team. They deserve our thanks and patience, not our mockery. And it's not just you, guru, just tired of seeing it constantly these past few months. For any Marquette fans, DePaul deserves everything they're getting and then some.

Since Marquette decided some time ago to put more resources in b-ball I don't think we would have sunk too low but I do agree that the C7 has to stick together.

Just because DePaul and Providence are down now doesn't mean it will stay that way forever.  Let's not be like Badger fans and pretend basketball started in 2000.  All of the C7 schools have had success for sustained periods in the past.  This new media deal could really help all of the programs that are a bit down right now.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nonsense.  Are they doing better at delivering TV markets or brand value?  Come on...the A10 teams can stay where they are if they can get a better deal.  The media companies are paying for the BE.  Period. The A10 makes a concession to the Xavier's of their world by giving the them more of the NCAA credits because the rest of the brand is low major. Free market...if the A10 schools don't like the deal, stay we're they are at...simple as that.  If they were so valuable as a media market, it would have been reflected in their new media deal just inked.

Again, you don't know this.  If, and it's a gigantic IF, the numbers are correct none of us here know if that number is tied to a 10 team league that includes some of these very A10 schools or Zaga or whatever.  Or are you suggesting that $500 million is tied to the C7...period...as you state?  That is pure speculation, nothing more.  If the C7 can get $500 million juston their own, then adding Xavier, Butler, etc should yield MORE.

[🏀]

Am I the only one sick of this whole "DuhPaul" thing that is going on constantly? I realize people don't like their lack of success, but if not for "DuhPaul", we never would have been invited to the Great Midwest back in 1991. Consequently, we also probably wouldn't have been part of the C-USA setup a few years after that, and never would have been admitted to the Big East.

20 years and change ago, our program was absolutely down in the dumps, arguably lower than where DePaul is now, and because of our association with them, we were able to build up to where we're at right now. I think we owe them the same benefit right now while their program has taken a turn towards the depths we were at back in the late 1980s.

Without DePaul, we're probably UW-Milwaukee's punching bag, assuming we even still have a D1 basketball team. They deserve our thanks and patience, not our mockery. And it's not just you, guru, just tired of seeing it constantly these past few months. For any Marquette fans, DePaul deserves everything they're getting and then some.

Can we still count them for two wins this year?

I respect DePaul, they will be back. One stadium away from resurgence, but it's okay to slop some mud on them from time to time.

[brewcity77]

Again, you don't know this.  If, and it's a gigantic IF, the numbers are correct none of us here know if that number is tied to a 10 team league that includes some of these very A10 schools or Zaga or whatever.  Or are you suggesting that $500 million is tied to the C7...period...as you state?  That is pure speculation, nothing more.  If the C7 can get $500 million juston their own, then adding Xavier, Butler, etc should yield MORE.

While we don't know, I would guess that if they have started negotiating figures, then both the C7 and Fox know who teams 8, 9, and 10 are. If we're going to 12, they may not know exactly, but they have a pretty good guess of who they want and who'll say yes.

I have no doubt that to get a figure that big, Xavier and Butler are definitely agreed, and honestly, I think there's a better than 50% chance Gonzaga is in as well. Part of the reason we made so much in the old Big East was because they were paying for two sports, and mediocre football draws better than good basketball. So if we're doubling our take-home, my guess is we're offering great basketball. Which means at least a couple times a week we have to be able to offer a game like Xavier/Georgetown, Villanova/Marquette, or Butler/Gonzaga. Which means either 3 great teams or 5 that they expect can regularly compete for tourney bids.

[Pakuni]

Am I the only one sick of this whole "DuhPaul" thing that is going on constantly? I realize people don't like their lack of success, but if not for "DuhPaul", we never would have been invited to the Great Midwest back in 1991. Consequently, we also probably wouldn't have been part of the C-USA setup a few years after that, and never would have been admitted to the Big East.

20 years and change ago, our program was absolutely down in the dumps, arguably lower than where DePaul is now, and because of our association with them, we were able to build up to where we're at right now. I think we owe them the same benefit right now while their program has taken a turn towards the depths we were at back in the late 1980s.

Without DePaul, we're probably UW-Milwaukee's punching bag, assuming we even still have a D1 basketball team. They deserve our thanks and patience, not our mockery. And it's not just you, guru, just tired of seeing it constantly these past few months. For any Marquette fans, DePaul deserves everything they're getting and then some.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Also, people are foolish if they think the C7's value doesn't take a nose dive without a presence in the country's third-largest media market, or without the country's largest Catholic school in the fold.

[muguru]

Agree wholeheartedly.

Also, people are foolish if they think the C7's value doesn't take a nose dive without a presence in the country's third-largest media market, or without the country's largest Catholic school in the fold.

Marquette would be fine with them. MU is their own school. Fortunately they aren't DePaul. Ask their fans, or go visit their message board and see how tired they are of being, in their own words "A mid major". They are. You are what you act like. They don't want to stick the resources into their BB program, so no amount of money they bring in will change that, or it would have already. Their President and their AD simply don't care enough. As long as they are there, or one or the other, the fact is, things won't change. They deserve all the mocking they get.

[brewcity77]

Marquette would be fine with them. MU is their own school.

First, I'm assuming you meant "without". And we sure as hell wouldn't have been fine without them 22 years ago. Honestly, I'm not sure Marquette basketball or this forum would even exist if not for DePaul getting us into the GMC. If it did, we'd probably be in the Horizon League dreaming of one day turning into Butler.

DePaul has earned their share of mockery, but let's save it for the week we have a game with them. Piling on all year round is tiresome and needless.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Again, you don't know this.  If, and it's a gigantic IF, the numbers are correct none of us here know if that number is tied to a 10 team league that includes some of these very A10 schools or Zaga or whatever.  Or are you suggesting that $500 million is tied to the C7...period...as you state?  That is pure speculation, nothing more.  If the C7 can get $500 million juston their own, then adding Xavier, Butler, etc should yield MORE.

Here is what we know...the A10 teams get $500 k per year.  The market has valued them recently with Butler and their two NC appearances just jumping in.  Here is also what we know, the C7 schools on a very old deal are getting about $2mm plus...with these reports saying now up to $5mm.  Pretty sure one can assume the A10 schools are not the ones driving the inflation...especially when this news that says those who were just valued in the A10 are now worth five times that joining with the C7.

[brewcity77]

Here is what we know...the A10 teams get $500 k per year.  The market has valued them recently with Butler and their two NC appearances just jumping in.  Here is also what we know, the C7 schools on a very old deal are getting about $2mm plus...with these reports saying now up to $5mm.  Pretty sure one can assume the A10 schools are not the ones driving the inflation...especially when this news that says those who were just valued in the A10 are now worth five times that joining with the C7.

Well, the thing is that I think the deal goes to the average. For every Butler or Xavier in the A-10, you have two Fordhams or Rhode Islands. They've had some success, but out of 16 current teams, you can only really count on Butler, Xavier, Temple, and VCU to be good. Of course, Temple is leaving (and I'm pretty sure the new TV deal anticipated that) so you've got 3/16 legitimately good teams.

While the C7 does have Providence, DePaul, Seton Hall, and St. John's that have been more down than up of late, they're generally on par with the mid-level A-10 teams like Dayton, St. Louis, St. Joe's, and Richmond. So with the A-10 let's say you regularly have 4 good teams, 4 decent teams, and 8 bad teams. In the new league, you'll have 6 good teams and 4 decent teams, or maybe 7 good teams and 5 decent teams. Sure, the C7 may be responsible for about half of those good teams, but it's also responsible for 80-100% of the lower tier, or "decent" teams.

I have no doubt that while we are driving the bus, the teams we are partnering up with are bringing a lot of credit to that deal. Because regardless of the markets, Fox isn't paying half-a-billion dollars to broadcast DePaul v Providence as their marquee weeknight game.

[Pakuni]

Marquette would be fine with them. MU is their own school. Fortunately they aren't DePaul. Ask their fans, or go visit their message board and see how tired they are of being, in their own words "A mid major". They are. You are what you act like. They don't want to stick the resources into their BB program, so no amount of money they bring in will change that, or it would have already. Their President and their AD simply don't care enough. As long as they are there, or one or the other, the fact is, things won't change. They deserve all the mocking they get.

This actually isn't all that true. DePaul invests fairly significantly in their program, just not all that wisely or effectively.

Oliver Purnell reportedly makes about $1.8 million a year, which would put him in the top 20-25 coaches in the country.
And, according to Forbes' numbers (which, yes, I know, can't be counted upon for 100 percent accuracy because different schools account differently) DePaul spent $6.5 million on its basketball program in 2010, sixth most in the big East, including more than Nova, Notre Dame, Pitt and West Virginia.
There's no evidence the president or AD don't care.

[NersEllenson]

This actually isn't all that true. DePaul invests fairly significantly in their program, just not all that wisely of effectively.

Oliver Purnell reportedly makes about $1.8 million a year, which would put him in the top 20-25 coaches in the country.
And, according to Forbes' numbers (which, yes, I know, can't be counted upon for 100 percent accuracy because different schools account differently) DePaul spent $6.5 million on its basketball program in 2010, sixth most in the big East, including more than Nova, Notre Dame, Pitt and West Virginia.
There's no evidence the president or AD don't care.

Perhaps one day some* people will get it through their heads that the "program" is largely a function of the head coach - if you have a strong head coach, you have a strong program.  Just because you spend a lot on your "program," if you don't have a coach worth a lick - it doesn't matter.  Yet some seem to think that just because a school spends money it will have a good program.  From your above post...DePaul certainly proves you can't overcome poor coaching hires (though I think Purnell was about as good as they could hope for), just by spending money.

[GGGG]

DePaul's problems lie much deeper than poor coaching hires.

[jsglow]

I for one plan on fully supporting all of our C7 brothers.  If there is no visible light between any of us, we will all benefit.  Sure DePaul is down now and sure we rode their coattails 20+ years ago.  One thing that ought to be non-negotiable in this entire process is that the C7 stick together, decide their future together in private meetings where differences of opinion can be discussed and hashed out, and the speak with one and only one voice once those issues are resolved.

Providence and DePaul simply are not getting smaller shares or anything else that diminishes their Founding Member status.  Absolute non-starter.  Now might their ADs be smart enough in these private discussions to ever so slightly subordinate their individual selfish interests?  Yep.  But we'll never hear it.  

[Dr. Blackheart]

Well, the thing is that I think the deal goes to the average. For every Butler or Xavier in the A-10, you have two Fordhams or Rhode Islands. They've had some success, but out of 16 current teams, you can only really count on Butler, Xavier, Temple, and VCU to be good. Of course, Temple is leaving (and I'm pretty sure the new TV deal anticipated that) so you've got 3/16 legitimately good teams.

While the C7 does have Providence, DePaul, Seton Hall, and St. John's that have been more down than up of late, they're generally on par with the mid-level A-10 teams like Dayton, St. Louis, St. Joe's, and Richmond. So with the A-10 let's say you regularly have 4 good teams, 4 decent teams, and 8 bad teams. In the new league, you'll have 6 good teams and 4 decent teams, or maybe 7 good teams and 5 decent teams. Sure, the C7 may be responsible for about half of those good teams, but it's also responsible for 80-100% of the lower tier, or "decent" teams.

I have no doubt that while we are driving the bus, the teams we are partnering up with are bringing a lot of credit to that deal. Because regardless of the markets, Fox isn't paying half-a-billion dollars to broadcast DePaul v Providence as their marquee weeknight game.

So under this scenario, SLU and Dayton are off the table as adds...and Butler and VCU were fiscally irresponsible for joining the A10 because they didn't receive fair market value by jumping to their new conference where they just helped get their new media deal done???  Look at what the Zags deliver in a similar conference scenario if not bleaker...and look at the A10.

Listen, I am a believer in equal revenue sharing because parity brings better competition and ratings.  But, you just don't give away the keys to the estate to the new 22 year old fourth wife.  It has to be earned with future investments and performance....not given given away without value being added. If Pilarz or LW would agree to this out of the box, they should be fired for not maximizing their school's value. 

[brewcity77]

So under this scenario, SLU and Dayton are off the table as adds...and Butler and VCU were fiscally irresponsible for joining the A10 because they didn't receive fair market value by jumping to their new conference where they just helped get their new media deal done???

No. I think the hope is to add 3 high-level teams if you go to 10 and 4 high-level teams if you go to 12. Realistically, it may be adding 2 and 3. Butler and Xavier are obvious. For 10, I think Gonzaga is the next best team (but of course, depends on travel) with Dayton as the backup plan. If you go to 12, you add whichever of those two didn't make the cut and hope to get a VCU or Creighton but accept a St. Louis or Richmond.

And Butler and VCU moved for what at the time was the most realistic money they could get and increased NCAA shares. It was a good move at the time, they didn't know this would come along a year later. But under the circumstance, because they moved when they did, they have less to lose, making this move an even better one.

Listen, I am a believer in equal revenue sharing because parity brings better competition and ratings.  But, you just don't give away the keys to the estate to the new 22 year old fourth wife.  It has to be earned with future investments and performance....not given given away without value being added. If Pilarz or LW would agree to this out of the box, they should be fired for not maximizing their school's value.

All I'm saying is I don't believe this deal gets done at this level if we aren't bringing in some big names from other conferences. They should be compensated for that. And I'm also not saying we don't deserve a bigger share to start since we're getting the ball rolling. But if we go to 12 teams and the 7 of us are making $5M for the first 12 years while the other 5 make $1.3M or so...well, I can't see everyone remaining happy bedfellows for the duration of the deal.

[jsglow]

But, you just don't give away the keys to the estate to the new 22 year old fourth wife. 

I'm starting a rumor that Dr. B is speaking from experience.   

[🏀]

Honestly, I'm not sure Marquette basketball or this forum would even exist if not for DePaul getting us into the GMC. If it did, we'd probably be in the Horizon League A-10dreaming of one day turning into Butler.

Made a couple of corrections....and boom, Dayton.

[jsglow]

Made a couple of corrections....and boom, Dayton.

And getting invited to the BEast 2.0 happily taking our fractional share.

[ChicosBailBonds]

At the end of the day, timing is what is good.  Sports fees are out of control but that is a good thing for the new league, just as it was huge for the Angels last year, the Dodgers this year, the PAC 12 network, etc.

It is a sellers market for the leagues because Fox, NBC, etc need content and live sports is the only thing advertisers can guarantee viewership on in real time.

Comparing deals to the past are somewhat skewed as the landscape has changed.  I'm at a conference this week and hope to get a few more details on this stuff.  If the C7 are getting $500 million then the football conferences are wetting their pants at how much they are going to get next round.  It will be so huge to make heads spin.

[jsglow]

At the end of the day, timing is what is good.  Sports fees are out of control but that is a good thing for the new league, just as it was huge for the Angels last year, the Dodgers this year, the PAC 12 network, etc.

It is a sellers market for the leagues because Fox, NBC, etc need content and live sports is the only thing advertisers can guarantee viewership on in real time.

Comparing deals to the past are somewhat skewed as the landscape has changed.  I'm at a conference this week and hope to get a few more details on this stuff.  If the C7 are getting $500 million then the football conferences are wetting their pants at how much they are going to get next round.  It will be so huge to make heads spin.

There go my satellite fees!

[🏀]

And getting invited to the BEast 2.0 happily taking our fractional share.

Boo! Dayton's at the very bottom of my list.

[brewcity77]

Boo! Dayton's at the very bottom of my list.

They were for me too until I saw the numbers that Georgetown fan put up in the thread that turned into a debate about Marquette's attendance. Dayton may not be elite on the court, but they are a monster off it. Their revenue is larger than any C7 school other than Marquette (over $10M) and they draw more in attendance than anyone save us as well.

Add in that they have been in the top-100 RPI for the past decade and while they may not be a juggernaut, they're one of those teams that is solid year-in and year-out. My guess is if they moved up, you'd see them make the tourney with more regularity, maybe once every two years rather than every 5.

The guys at UDPride are absolute D-bags, but I think they'd be that fanbase we all love to hate and wouldn't bring the level of play down, like St. Louis would in many years.

[Tums Festival]

With this kind of money being offered, one would think the additional teams have pretty much been identified. As has been pointed out on this board by several people, our TV partner will have a lot to say about what teams are added to the mix.

One sort of rhetorical comment/question on the new network. Since the Speed channel is typically part of a sports pack, I'm hoping the end plan is to move Fox Sports 1 to the basic channel tier for a larger audience. Especially if the plan is to compete with ESPN.

[tower912]

Equal shares after some reimursement of up-front league formation costs or MU and the C7 are no better than the football greedmongers.   Let's not be greedy hypocrites.   Also, let's give Xavier and Butler their just due for their performance over the last decade.   From their perspective, the C-7 is really the C-2 plus a bunch of Daytons.   How can anyone in good conscience not consider them equals?    If the dollar figures floated in the original article argument are accurate, there is plenty to go around.   MU and the C7 would be fools to do something (read: get greedy and not instantly make them equal partners) that keeps X and BU from joining.