Spreadsheet: Prospective Members to Join C7

[Dawson Rental]

Checking their statsheet, they did play one game at Spokane against Western Michigan. 

It's listed as the "Ronald McDonald Charities Classic" and Gonzaga lists it as a neutral court game, but it appears whoever put the spreadsheet together counted it as a home game.

They drew 9,610.

The math checks out:
(16 x 6000 + 1 x 9,610)/17 = 6212

So that explains the 6,212 reported average in 2012.

There leads to an interesting observation. 

The Spokane Arena lists a capacity of 12,210 for basketball
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spokane_Veterans_Memorial_Arena

They only drew 10,778 for Memphis in 2011 and 9,610 for WMU in 2012.  So that probably represents the top end of Gonzaga fandom in the Spokane area.

Clearly the demand is > 6000/game, which explains why they can sell out their home court for just about any opponent.  But even with an artificial limit, they don't sell out a 12,000 seat venue once a year--even for a game with national interest like Memphis.

And before someone suggests that its too far for students to get to, I checked.  Its not distance from campus--the Spokane Arena is just 1.5 miles from the MAC.

Their fans have to get in the habit.  When you're used to not going to a game because you can't get a ticket in a 6,000 seat arena, you're less likely to jump on the band wagon for the one game a year you can go to.

It's gotta be tough to sell many more than 6,000 seats playing in the West Coast.  They should at least come close to selling out the Spokane Arena if they get into the new league, making this a very good move for them.

[Dawson Rental]

Correct.  Not just an issue with accounting methods by sports, but by departments. Some schools charge things like stadium maintenance against a department that is not related to athletics.  Just one of a number of examples.

You know that Butler, Creighton, DePaul, Fairfield, Holy Cross, Memphis, Richmond, Seton Hall, etc. are playing accounting games when their revenue matches their income to the dollar.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The C7 President's meeting.

Gracias

[Galway Eagle]

I just noticed how our attendance has fallen almost a 1,000 fans 2008.  Any ideas why? I know our enrollment is up. 

[Benny B]

The Zags play a few games at the Spoke and at least one at the Key, hence the higher avg attendance over The Kennel. It would be great to be part of the new conference. It just feels right.

Welcome to you, dweller of the inland northwest.  On behalf of the more reasonable half of Scoopers, it goes without saying that - cost and logistics of travel aside - everyone would welcome Gonzaga with open arms into the new conference.

Of course, that is until the first time we as fans travel to Spokane; please don't think less of us for having some serious buyer's remorse those first few years.

[swoopem]

I just noticed how our attendance has fallen almost a 1,000 fans 2008.  Any ideas why? I know our enrollment is up. 

I'm no economy expert but pretty sure 2008 was the year that sh!t hit the fan and a lot of sports team's ticket sales have fallen (pro and college).

[Bocephys]

I'm no economy expert but pretty sure 2008 was the year that sh!t hit the fan and a lot of sports team's ticket sales have fallen (pro and college).

[The Equalizer]

Their fans have to get in the habit.  When you're used to not going to a game because you can't get a ticket in a 6,000 seat arena, you're less likely to jump on the band wagon for the one game a year you can go to.

You're a fan.  You can't get to any games because they're sold out in advance.   Its the hottest ticket in town.  You don't know when the next opportunity to see a game might be.  And when a rare opportunity arises, and it happens to be against one of the best opponents in years--you take a pass simply becuase "you're not in the habit"?

I have a hard time following that logic.

[bilsu]

Actually, if the Bucks leave, could/would MU get a better gameday lease rate from the BC?

In theory, the BC will really NEED MU at that point... but it's not like MU can go elsewhere. The arena is just too small now with the amount of season ticket holders.

I would think it would go the other way. They would need more money from MU to cover fixed costs. MU would not go back to Mecca or whatever it is called today, so they are stuck. On the positive side MU woud get more open dates to pick from.

[Windyplayer]

You're a fan.  You can't get to any games because they're sold out in advance.   Its the hottest ticket in town.  You don't know when the next opportunity to see a game might be.  And when a rare opportunity arises, and it happens to be against one of the best opponents in years--you take a pass simply becuase "you're not in the habit"?

I have a hard time following that logic.

+1. See Duke fans.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I would think it would go the other way. They would need more money from MU to cover fixed costs. MU would not go back to Mecca or whatever it is called today, so they are stuck. On the positive side MU woud get more open dates to pick from.

I guess it's a Mexican stand-off.

If the Bucks leave and MU tells the BC to pound sand... they are left with hockey, monster trucks, country music shows and the Globetrotters. Nothing wrong with any of those things, but the building will certainly be operating at a loss.

MU gives them 20 solid dates/rental fees.

However, you are correct that building operations don't necessarily get cheaper if the Bucks leave, so somebody is going to have to cover the costs.

[🏀]

I guess it's a Mexican stand-off.

If the Bucks leave and MU tells the BC to pound sand... they are left with hockey, monster trucks, country music shows and the Globetrotters. Nothing wrong with any of those things, but the building will certainly be operating at a loss.

MU gives them 20 solid dates/rental fees.

However, you are correct that building operations don't necessarily get cheaper if the Bucks leave, so somebody is going to have to cover the costs.

WWE, don't forget WWE. And those Christmas Mannheim Steamroller shows with the Globetrotters a couple days later.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

WWE, don't forget WWE. And those Christmas Mannheim Steamroller shows with the Globetrotters a couple days later.

My apologies to John Cena and Transiberian(sp) Orchestra.

I covered the 'Trotters in my previous post.

[Dawson Rental]

You're a fan.  You can't get to any games because they're sold out in advance.   Its the hottest ticket in town.  You don't know when the next opportunity to see a game might be.  And when a rare opportunity arises, and it happens to be against one of the best opponents in years--you take a pass simply becuase "you're not in the habit"?

I have a hard time following that logic.

You don't "take a pass", you're a lot less likely to even realize that you can get a ticket this time because you're not following the team like you would be if you had season tickets or even if you were in the habit of going a few times a year.  You've got a routine built around watching the game on TV.  I bet the majority of the increased ticket sales are for traveling fans (Memphis has many) and increased student interest for a big game.

[shannonboyle]

Welcome to you, dweller of the inland northwest.  On behalf of the more reasonable half of Scoopers, it goes without saying that - cost and logistics of travel aside - everyone would welcome Gonzaga with open arms into the new conference.

Of course, that is until the first time we as fans travel to Spokane; please don't think less of us for having some serious buyer's remorse those first few years.

The New Kennel is still brand new so I don't see the Zags leaving. Lotta pride in that facility and it's a great home court advantage. Maybe some big games get played downtown.

[oldwarrior81]

I think the Zags also play an annual game in the Key Arena in Seattle. 
It's usually against a top opponent and draws about 16,000

[JoBo2756]

Is there any way to get our expenses down? Anybody know why they are so much higher than everyone else?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I just noticed how our attendance has fallen almost a 1,000 fans 2008.  Any ideas why? I know our enrollment is up. 

Tom Crean left.......

[Avenue Commons]

First, many thanks for posting that and the Gtown fan who put it together. I'm sure some consulting company would have charged ten grand for a similar product.

Second, this absolutely confirms for me that there shod be ZERO interest in VCU. Their Final 4 run was very impressive, but other than that I'm not interested. I'll take SLU, Creighton, or Dayton way before VCU.

[MUFlutieEffect]

Actually, if the Bucks leave, could/would MU get a better gameday lease rate from the BC?

In theory, the BC will really NEED MU at that point... but it's not like MU can go elsewhere. The arena is just too small now with the amount of season ticket holders.

You're under the impression the BC is too small for Marquette?  I'd argue the contrary.  With the exception of 4 or 5 games each season, the building has far too many empty seats - so many that it simply looks bad from a PR perspective, if nothing else.

Part of the lure of schools like Duke is that they pack the place every night.  Yes, you lose out on boasting an enormous attendance figure, but you have an incredible atmosphere and keep demand at its peak.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You're under the impression the BC is too small for Marquette?  I'd argue the contrary.  With the exception of 4 or 5 games each season, the building has far too many empty seats - so many that it simply looks bad from a PR perspective, if nothing else.

Part of the lure of schools like Duke is that they pack the place every night.  Yes, you lose out on boasting an enormous attendance figure, but you have an incredible atmosphere and keep demand at its peek.

Sorry, I should have put "Arena" in CAPS as I was referring to the US Cellular Arena, which is too small for MU.

The BC is probably a little too big for MU, but realistically MU needs as much revenue is possible, so they can't afford to play in smaller arena and sell out every game. They will be missing out on some possible revenue from when they due draw 16,000+.

The Duke formula works for them, but probably wouldn't work for MU.

[Tugg Speedman]

I just noticed how our attendance has fallen almost a 1,000 fans 2008.  Any ideas why? I know our enrollment is up.  

2008/2009 was the all-time high water mark.  It was the three amigos junior/senior year.

Then, as I detailed in this thread last year
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=30382.msg354336#msg354336

It really comes down to whether we play Wisconsin at home and how many weekend vs weekday games we have.  Weekend games average a few thousand more than weekday games.  Marquee conference games matter too.  ND, Georgetown and Louisville are big Marquee games for us.  So is any highly ranked team (like Uconn when they are #1).  How many marquee games did we play at home  (versus Providence and Seton Hall).  Did we have more weekend games one year versus another?

Sum it up and our "average attendance" is about 15,500 to 15,800.  Last year we average 15,100 but if we replaced one of our RPI 300 buy games that averages 10,000 to 11,000 with Wisconsin that will draw near 19,000, then we would have had about 15,500 last year, making it an average year as opposed to a below average year.  We had Wisconsin at home this year (attendance was 18,588) so that alone should make attendance higher this year over last year.

Bottom line, we are a solid 15,500 to 15,800 in the years we play Wisconsin at home.  2008/2009 we had a "draw" in the three amigos and ranked in the top ten for the all-time high.

My guess is of the "Milwaukee's Best" recruiting class pans out as expected/hoped and we are again highly ranked in two years (a year we play Wisconsin at home), we can make a run at the peak year of 16,239 in 2008.  Ditto four year from now when Milwaukee's best are seniors and we play Wisconsin.  If that year Diamond Stone is a Sophomore at MU (Looney a Junior??), we should smash the attendance record.

Or forget this and say it was all Crean's magnetic personality that dragged everyone into the BC in 2008!


Add one more point ...

Conference play starts Jan 1.  Between that date and the day school starts we have low student section attendance.  Do we have two or three home conference games over break will affect overall attendance.

We play Georgetown at home Saturday.  If school is in session, this game is almost always a sell-out (and Georgetown is repeatedly in our 10 all-time attendance games).  So, we should get near 19,000 for that game but it might come up short because it's happening over break.

[Galway Eagle]

2008/2009 was the all-time high water mark.  It was the three amigos junior/senior year.

Then, as I detailed in this thread last year
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=30382.msg354336#msg354336

It really comes down to whether we play Wisconsin at home and how many weekend vs weekday games we have.  Weekend games average a few thousand more than weekday games.  Marquee conference games matter too.  ND, Georgetown and Louisville are big Marquee games for us.  So is any highly ranked team (like Uconn when they are #1).  How many marquee games did we play at home  (versus Providence and Seton Hall).  Did we have more weekend games one year versus another?

Sum it up and our "average attendance" is about 15,500 to 15,800.  Last year we average 15,100 but if we replaced one of our RPI 300 buy games that averages 10,000 to 11,000 with Wisconsin that will draw near 19,000, then we would have had about 15,500 last year, making it an average year as opposed to a below average year.  We had Wisconsin at home this year (attendance was 18,588) so that alone should make attendance higher this year over last year.

Bottom line, we are a solid 15,500 to 15,800 in the years we play Wisconsin at home.  2008/2009 we had a "draw" in the three amigos and ranked in the top ten for the all-time high.

My guess is of the "Milwaukee's Best" recruiting class pans out as expected/hoped and we are again highly ranked in two years (a year we play Wisconsin at home), we can make a run at the peak year of 16,239 in 2008.  Ditto four year from now when Milwaukee's best are seniors and we play Wisconsin.  If that year Diamond Stone is a Sophomore at MU (Looney a Junior??), we should smash the attendance record.

Or forget this and say it was all Crean's magnetic personality that dragged everyone into the BC in 2008!


Add one more point ...

Conference play starts Jan 1.  Between that date and the day school starts we have low student section attendance.  Do we have two or three home conference games over break will affect overall attendance.

We play Georgetown at home Saturday.  If school is in session, this game is almost always a sell-out (and Georgetown is repeatedly in our 10 all-time attendance games).  So, we should get near 19,000 for that game but it might come up short because it's happening over break.

Many good points. Though it was the amigos junior year which is why I was confused.  I was also confused as Jae and DJO seemed to be as big or bigger of a draw and yet the 2010 and 2011 teams had higher attendance rates.  Good points about UW though I disagree with the school in session comments as I remember driving up to winter break games my freshman year against nova and GTown which were sold out. 

[Tugg Speedman]

Last year ...

* we were robbed of a few weekend games because of the NBA lockout forced a condensed 66 game schedule.  The Bucks had priority in scheduling as we had to move some game to weekdays.   After January 1, only three of our remaining 8 home BE games were weekends (Pitt Jan 14, Cincy Feb 2 and GU Mar 3).

* If you assume MU fans also attend Bucks games, between these two last year the games were coming fast and furious in the BC.  Their night have been some over-saturation.

* We also did not play Wisconsin

* We had a really weak early non-conference schedule (Mount St. Marys, Norfolk, Jacksonville and Northern Co)

So yes, the highly ranked team and DJO/Jae should have dragged people to the BC.  But, all the stars aligned in the wrong way to make last year a crappy year for attendance.

[Norm]

Using the spreadsheet provided by the Georgetown fan, I thought I'd see how the teams stacked up when comparing stats. I ranked each of the most plausible teams for the new conference by awarding points (14 the best, 1 the worst) in the following categories: 5-year home attendance average, 2012 home attendance, AP poll appearances 2000-2009, AP poll appearances 2010-2012, NCAA appearances the last 10 years, NCAA wins the last 10 years, NCAA appearances the last 5 years, NCAA wins the last 5 years, NCAA appearances all time, NCAA wins all time, Final Four appearances, and NCAA championships. Here's how they stacked up:

149   Marquette
143   Villanova
138   Georgetown
125   Xavier
105   Butler
104   Gonzaga
99   Creighton
94   Dayton
85   St. John's
83   DePaul
72   VCU
67   Providence
65   Seton Hall
61   Saint Louis

Not scientific by any means, just a fun exercise combining present success with past success. The bottom four of the C7 (St. John's, DePaul, Providence and Seton Hall) sure need to step things up and be more consistent in the future.