A true basketball-only league

[brewcity77]

So I got to thinking this morning...if the Big East dissolved, what if we all started a true basketball-only league? What I mean is, a nationwide league for basketball programs only. All other sports, like lacrosse, soccer, golf, volleyball, and others would be parked in another conference that was more local to cut down on travel costs for all schools involved. The Horizon, MAC, MVC...doesn't really matter.

ONLY basketball plays in this new league. And basketball programs could afford the travel. We could realistically look at a conference with teams like Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, Gonzaga, Creighton, Wichita State, and St John's. Hell, even if schools wanted they could leave their football behind. San Diego State, Memphis, even Duke if they get left out in all the shuffling would be welcome.

Would it be worth losing the Big East affiliation for all other sports to create a true basketball super-conference?

[GGGG]

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/22/report-big-east-schools-may-vote-to-dissolve-league/

[Warrior of Law]

I'm a little concerned, as a fairly new season ticket holder, about the quality of the schedule in the next few years.  We've lost or will lose, West Virginia, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pitt.  I can't see Louisville or Uconn sticking around either.  Those are the marquee games.  In fact, they usually sell those 5 game plans with just the high profile games.  Central Florida and SMU games in return are not attractive.  If season ticket revenue is a big part of the MU budget, there should be some major concerns about lost ticket sales in the future BigEast. These will be some interesting and challenging times for MU admin....

[Aughnanure]

So I got to thinking this morning...if the Big East dissolved, what if we all started a true basketball-only league? What I mean is, a nationwide league for basketball programs only. All other sports, like lacrosse, soccer, golf, volleyball, and others would be parked in another conference that was more local to cut down on travel costs for all schools involved. The Horizon, MAC, MVC...doesn't really matter.

ONLY basketball plays in this new league. And basketball programs could afford the travel. We could realistically look at a conference with teams like Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, Gonzaga, Creighton, Wichita State, and St John's. Hell, even if schools wanted they could leave their football behind. San Diego State, Memphis, even Duke if they get left out in all the shuffling would be welcome.

Would it be worth losing the Big East affiliation for all other sports to create a true basketball super-conference?

I'm not sure if it's realistic the league would play ONLY basketball (i.e., the programs through the Midwest and the Northeast might as well join up to play soccer, volleyball, etc., as well). But it could be the way to get the western schools like Gonzaga, or BYU even, and create a truly national brand?

The other possibility is to create a western half or division. Would Creighton, Wichita St, St. Mary's, Gonzaga, BYU, Loyola Marymount really add much more travel than the WCC, which stretches down the entire coast? Heck, ideally it would be great to grab UNLV too. But I'm not getting my hopes up, these programs will move their sports to the league best suited for football.

[mu_hilltopper]

I'm a little concerned, as a fairly new season ticket holder, about the quality of the schedule in the next few years.  We've lost or will lose, West Virginia, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pitt.  I can't see Louisville or Uconn sticking around either.  Those are the marquee games.  In fact, they usually sell those 5 game plans with just the high profile games.  Central Florida and SMU games in return are not attractive.  If season ticket revenue is a big part of the MU budget, there should be some major concerns about lost ticket sales in the future BigEast. These will be some interesting and challenging times for MU admin....

This.

There's no doubt Marquette's primary entertainment product is decreasing in value.  Over the past 3-5 years, MU has been charging (tickets + donations) more and more for a very high quality product.  

It will be interesting to see how MU handles the pricing aspect of their new world.

While some of the demand for MU's season tickets are .. irrational (school spirit, pride, community) a good chunk is rational.  This year, there are 9 (being generous) high quality games at the BC.  Two season tickets $570+100* = $1,340 / 9 = $148 per game for a couple of tickets -- many consider games versus UMBC and Savannah State as complimentary games thrown in.

When the math changes and there's only 5 high quality games .. and the cost per game for HQ games goes to $268 .. suddenly (or not so) the secondary market (scalpers) for those 5 games becomes economical for great seats.

Roughly .. MU is headed for a C-USA product with BE prices.


* I chose the $570/100 level because there are 11 sections at that level in the lower bowl.  The math gets really high for the 6 sections at $570+500 or $2140 for 2 tix, div 9 games = $237/HQ game.

[Warrior of Law]

I share with someone who is a nonalum and lives outside of town. He'll drop like a rock if we have to pay a donation fee to see C-USA teams. Ironically, he always wanted the Rutgers game so he could go with his boss. This is bad.

[mu_hilltopper]

I suppose if the conference opponents are degraded, MU could upgrade the pre-conference games somehow.  You could salvage the product by finding 3-4 sub-50 RPI home and homes.

[TedBaxter]

I still think a basketball dominated league of private schools may be the way to go and would include Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, Providence and one more private school from among St. Joe's, LaSalle, Richmond or Siena in the east.  The midwest would have Marquette, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton and Saint Louis.  The history of the programs is there, the size of the cities would attract a cable network and I think it would be a product a Marquette fan and fans around the country would be attracted to since this would be one of the few conferences that would actually be aligning the members geographically AND academically.  For the most part, the non-revenue sports would benefit as well.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I still think a basketball dominated league of private schools may be the way to go and would include Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, Providence and one more private school from among St. Joe's, LaSalle, Richmond or Siena in the east.  The midwest would have Marquette, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton and Saint Louis.  The history of the programs is there, the size of the cities would attract a cable network and I think it would be a product a Marquette fan and fans around the country would be attracted to since this would be one of the few conferences that would actually be aligning the members geographically AND academically.  For the most part, the non-revenue sports would benefit as well.

Sounds like A10 merge...who just garnered a TV deal significantly less per school than what MU earns now.  Cable markets built the Big East.  Why give that up? 

These conferences won't do it because these decisions are being made based on emotion in this cake walk, but for the Big East and ACC to merge, at least in football.  But they won't as the networks won't allow it and they are the puppet masters calling the shots on the back of the universities willing to sign up for $50 million exit fees.  These two conferences need to band together...for might. 

[unforgiven]

I still think a basketball dominated league of private schools may be the way to go and would include Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, Providence and one more private school from among St. Joe's, LaSalle, Richmond or Siena in the east.  The midwest would have Marquette, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton and Saint Louis.  The history of the programs is there, the size of the cities would attract a cable network and I think it would be a product a Marquette fan and fans around the country would be attracted to since this would be one of the few conferences that would actually be aligning the members geographically AND academically.  For the most part, the non-revenue sports would benefit as well.

This would be a defeat

[Aughnanure]

Sounds like A10 merge...who just garnered a TV deal significantly less per school than what MU earns now.  Cable markets built the Big East.  Why give that up?  

Well yeah we don't want to "give it up," but if everything's gone what is there to give-up? I dont see Boise, Houston, SDSU, BYU, etc wanting into the Big East if Louisville, UConn, Cincy, Rutgers, etc are not there. And on the A10 contract - sure it's much less but that league has 4 more teams to pay, and a new league would have none of LaSalle, Fordham, St. Bonaventure, St. Joe's, Rhode Island, GW, etc leaching off it. Will it get a ton? No. Is it ideal? F*** no. But is the drop off as steep as some are making it out to be? I don't think so. I think there really is an opportunity to brand yourself as the true basketball conference and grow.

These conferences won't do it because these decisions are being made based on emotion in this cake walk, but for the Big East and ACC to merge, at least in football.  But they won't as the networks won't allow it and they are the puppet masters calling the shots on the back of the universities willing to sign up for $50 million exit fees.  These two conferences need to band together...for might.  

An ACC-Big East merger will be on the ACC's terms, and what would they want from the basketball onlies? Memphis, Temple, Cincy, Houston, UCF, USF? Sure. But they won't need the basketball schools to lay claim to being the top basketball conference if they still have Duke, Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, Pitt, Wake, Memphis, Cincy

[Aughnanure]

This would be a defeat

If everyone leaves, what's the option? We're already in defeat mode with SDSU, Boise, Navy, UCF, SMU, etc. What's the best option? Is there a way we could keep it alive and demand some of the football money? Maybe that's worth it. But if it's the difference between $1 million and $2.5 million + the drastic increases in travel costs, I think it's getting negligible, if not equal.

The goal Marquette should be focused on is which affiliation will get MU on TV more (and use that to grow the brand over-time...i.e., the BIG EAST!). Is it a Creighton-Marquette game or Boise-Marquette? Marquette vs Xavier, or Marquette vs SMU?

[brewcity77]

I'm not sure if it's realistic the league would play ONLY basketball (i.e., the programs through the Midwest and the Northeast might as well join up to play soccer, volleyball, etc., as well). But it could be the way to get the western schools like Gonzaga, or BYU even, and create a truly national brand?

I guess my response would be why isn't it realistic? There are already schools slated to join the Big East for one sport. I realize it's different than anything that's been done before, but new times call for new ideas. For television contracts, target schools by market. Schools like San Diego State, Gonzaga, St Louis, Wichita State, and others could open markets the Big East never would have touched without increasing travel costs for non-revenue sports.

I guess the question would be how much is the Big East worth to sports like soccer, volleyball, and lacrosse?

[Aughnanure]

I guess my response would be why isn't it realistic? There are already schools slated to join the Big East for one sport. I realize it's different than anything that's been done before, but new times call for new ideas. For television contracts, target schools by market. Schools like San Diego State, Gonzaga, St Louis, Wichita State, and others could open markets the Big East never would have touched without increasing travel costs for non-revenue sports.

I guess the question would be how much is the Big East worth to sports like soccer, volleyball, and lacrosse?

No, I agree with your idea as a way to bring the western schools in - and any that got left out of the big football conferences and want to tie themselves to the strongest basketball league possible. I just don't see Marquette, Villanova, DePaul, Xavier, Georgetown, etc., not playing their non-revenue sports together in such a league, given their close proximity and past collaboration (especially Lacrosse).

[MUBasketball]

Is it a Creighton-Marquette game or Boise-Marquette?

Good points overall. I just hate when people reference the new football-only schools to help support a basketball argument. Marquette vs. Boise will not be happening, regardless of what happens.

[TedBaxter]

This would be a defeat

Call it common sense and stability and that's going to be a huge deal going forward, especially if you want to maintain the non-revenue sports. 

As far as Dr. Blackheart's comment about lower money with a TV deal, that is the truth, but please tell me how a new conference without some of the big names (Syracuse, Pitt and potentially Louisville, Cincinnati and UConn) is going to be high on ESPN's list.  The new conference is going to have to get the best deal possible and maybe a newer network like NBCsports see's this as an avenue to get their new product in area's like New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington D.C., Cincinnati, St. Louis, Indianapolis and Milwaukee.

Try to think of this as the best idea for Marquette's long term athletic future and not as a 1-2 year patch job.

[Aughnanure]

Good points overall. I just hate when people reference the new football-only schools to help support a basketball argument. Marquette vs. Boise will not be happening, regardless of what happens.

Yeah, I guess I just see that football-only denotation going away if the western schools stay. I think the BE would form a western half with BYU, Nevada, UNLV, and a few others if they stay.

[79Warrior]

Yeah, I guess I just see that football-only denotation going away if the western schools stay. I think the BE would form a western half with BYU, Nevada, UNLV, and a few others if they stay.

I think it is highly likely Boise, SDSU etc bail out.

[GGGG]

The only reason that Boise and SDSU stay is if the television contract is a good one.  I doubt that is happening anytime soon because networks aren't going to invest in a conference if they don't know who the members are going to be. 

[Aughnanure]

If Boise, SDSU bail does that make it more likely Houston and SMU do the same? That would be as good as a final nail in the coffin to the BEAST.

Talk now heating up about ACC taking Cincy, Ville AND UConn on Monday:

@bricmiller Just heard from someone tied to Big East, Louisville to the ACC w/ Cincy, UConn to likely follow (deleted since)

"@RiceRadio: I'm hearing Louisville, Cincy, and UConn to #ACC next year."

@jbrinkmeyer Wow, I just got quite the phone call. UConn, UC, and Louisville to join the ACC. To be announced Monday. #bearcats

@jbrinkmeyer: In that call I was told that FSU is the one who wanted to have all 3 invited.

BearcatLair.com‏@BearcatLair
Far from ready to report it, but this UC to the ACC rumor is coming at me from a lot of different directions right now. Crazy night.

[muguru]

As others have touched on, this is my biggest fear about the proposed "basketball" only league. It's a terrible idea. Ticket sales will drop. It will be a mid major league. especially if people are talking about(as i always see) wanting to bring in SLU & Dayton. Right or wrong, we as ticket holders are used to seeing Pitt, Cuse, Uconn etc. Having us watch SLU, Dayton, Butler etc, does NOTHING for me, and it will do NOTHING for recruiting. You are damn right that MU's BB program is teetering on the brink right now...This will cause a major ripple effect on the quality of MU BB. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool.

[Aughnanure]

As others have touched on, this is my biggest fear about the proposed "basketball" only league. It's a terrible idea. Ticket sales will drop. It will be a mid major league. especially if people are talking about(as i always see) wanting to bring in SLU & Dayton. Right or wrong, we as ticket holders are used to seeing Pitt, Cuse, Uconn etc. Having us watch SLU, Dayton, Butler etc, does NOTHING for me, and it will do NOTHING for recruiting. You are damn right that MU's BB program is teetering on the brink right now...This will cause a major ripple effect on the quality of MU BB. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool.

Oh stop this crap. "We" are not used to seeing Pitt, Cuse and UConn. We've been in the Big East, what, 6 years? How many home games is that for those 3 teams? Jesus tap-dancing Christ! How short are everyone's memories around here? Sure it was nice, and it'd be nice if it could continue...but it's not! Get over it, and try to be a fan who doesnt b**** and moan about not playing a few teams you've only seen 3 or 4 times anyways.

[TedBaxter]

As others have touched on, this is my biggest fear about the proposed "basketball" only league. It's a terrible idea. Ticket sales will drop. It will be a mid major league. especially if people are talking about(as i always see) wanting to bring in SLU & Dayton. Right or wrong, we as ticket holders are used to seeing Pitt, Cuse, Uconn etc. Having us watch SLU, Dayton, Butler etc, does NOTHING for me, and it will do NOTHING for recruiting. You are damn right that MU's BB program is teetering on the brink right now...This will cause a major ripple effect on the quality of MU BB. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool.
/quote]

You mean mid-majors like Butler who just beat MU and North Carolina and has gone to 2 recent Final 4's,  Saint Louis who manhandled Texas A&M last week and played Kansas tough without the injured Kwamaine Mitchell and Dayton who beat BCS schools Boston College and Auburn recently. All have been in the NCAA in the past 4 years.  Xavier is a no-brainer and maybe Temple is added if they can't find a match in football in another conference and they and Villanova can agree to play in a conference together.

Some of you guys have no clue about NCAA basketball history.

[GGGG]

Or how about Marquette, who made the Final Four as a mid-major less than a decade ago.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If Boise, SDSU bail does that make it more likely Houston and SMU do the same? That would be as good as a final nail in the coffin to the BEAST.

Very likely