Buzz and MU's "Ceiling"

[Dawson Rental]

Do we know if Buzz has wanted to recruit a player but was told "no" by the admin?

It wouldn't shock me if it's happened, but I don't remember hearing anything like that (yet).

I am becoming more and more convinced that "winning the right way" as envisioned by LW and "winning the Buzz way" are really synonymous.  Does Calipari tell one and dones, "Hey, I'm gonna bust your balls and make you work harder than you ever have before."  I doubt it.   The school doesn't want player getting into trouble outside of school and basketball, Buzz doesn't want guys who are distracted from school and basketball.  What's the difference?

[🏀]

I think Benny's statement has the loudest ring.

It's not Buzz, Larry, Pilarz or Marquette that will limit the ceiling, it is the deep pockets of the alumni. We don't have the base to throw around blue blood money, and we will always be second tier because of that.

That being said, I love second tier. I don't want Marquette in the cesspool that is blue blood recruiting. I don't want Marquette following KenoshaWarrior's mentality.

Buzz may not be able to get top 10 recruits, but if we get top 50 consistently, cool deal. Marquette will have down years (wrong side of the bubble), Marquette will have awful years (NIT), Marquette will have okay years (NCAA) and Marquette will have great years (Sweet 16 or better).

Over a course of a decade these would be completely acceptable expectations:

7 Years of NCAA
1 Year of utter crap in the NIT
2 Year of being on the wrong side of the bubble.

[Warriors 79]

Buzz's "ceiling" is NOT the Blue Bloods unless he changes his "ball busting" style. He will only get the top 10 recruits if they have the kind of "camps" (ugh), nee PARENTS, who tell little NBA-at-15-years-old that he needs his balls busted to get to the next level.  If Blue Blood is getting his game stroked to the moon, whether deserved or not, Buzz will not get him with his current style.  Which, BTW, I LOVE. 

I personally want Buzz to stay and be the iconic don't-care-about-the-other-guys coach that Al was. Need a few more Cracked Sidewalks recruits to come here plus a few kids with Vander Blue-like moms who see and GET the bigger picture.

The final and essential key is Buzz needs to initiate and sign a long-term deal and make it known, like Calipari, Williams, Pitino and Coach K, that Buzz Williams is now and forever the coach at Marquette. Then, the Blue Bloods will come. Then, we will truly have recaptured the Glory Days of Al. Coach McGuire did not see Marquette as a stepping stone to anywhere. Buzz has to see it that way, too. Crean was always going to leave. Up to to you, Coach Buzz.....

 

[Lennys Tap]

MU has been a top 20 team year-in and year out for many years.

In the last 9 years here are MU"s final rankings:
2012:10
2011:20
2010:unranked (made NCAA)
2009:21
2008:21
2007:20
2006:unranked (made NCAA)
2005:unranked (NIT)
2004:unranked (NIT)

So, I love the trajectory, but in reality we've finished higher than #20 once in the last 9 years, in the top 20 three times and in the top 21 five times. Solid and getting better, but top 20 year after year for many years isn't totally accurate.

[Dawson Rental]

Screw top ten recruits.  If Marquette could get some, we wouldn't get the ones who cold get the job done alone or enough of 'em to grab a national title.  The best chance MU has to be a threat for the national title is to sweep aside the one and dones when recruiting, figure out which players are going to be the four year players and try to get the best of those, and then drill them in the coach's (Buzz's) system.

[4everwarriors]

Sounds like Butler.

[swoopem]

I am becoming more and more convinced that "winning the right way" as envisioned by LW and "winning the Buzz way" are really synonymous.  Does Calipari tell one and dones, "Hey, I'm gonna bust your balls and make you work harder than you ever have before."  I doubt it.   The school doesn't want player getting into trouble outside of school and basketball, Buzz doesn't want guys who are distracted from school and basketball.  What's the difference?

You should watch the ESPN thing on Kentucky because that's exactly what Calipari tells kids. I was suprised when I saw it but when it aired last Tuesday they showed the commitment of the Harrison twins and they mentioned how Cal never once talked about playing time, expectations, etc. All he talked about was that he'll get them to work the hardest they've ever worked and that will get them to the NBA.

[Goose]

MU is on verge of being top 20 program and Buzz is running the ship. Anyone that thinks we have been a top 20 program over past decade does not know what a top 20 program looks like. I would hope their is not a person on here that does not believe the program is on upward path. We are close to being big time, with or without Looney and Stone, and I want to see how elite we can become Buzz.

[Tugg Speedman]

It's not Buzz, Larry, Pilarz or Marquette that will limit the ceiling, it is the deep pockets of the alumni. We don't have the base to throw around blue blood money, and we will always be second tier because of that.

I have no idea what this means.  What are we lacking because we do not have the money?  

Facilities?  No the Al is among the best among.  

Filling an Arena?  Nope, we are among the top 20 year and year out in attendance (and the only non-football school on that list).  

Buzz not given the resources he needs?  No again, he has a private plane.

So, please explain.

[Goose]

We have money to be elite. Now it is time to see if the school wants to be elite.

[Tugg Speedman]

MU is on verge of being top 20 program and Buzz is running the ship. Anyone that thinks we have been a top 20 program over past decade does not know what a top 20 program looks like.

The Buzz era:

Year: Final Rank
2012:10
2011:20
2010:unranked (made NCAA)
2009:21

Last two years of Crean

Year: Final Rank
2008:21
2007:20

Please explain why these numbers say we are not a top 20 program under Buzz?

[Tugg Speedman]

We have money to be elite. Now it is time to see if the school wants to be elite.

Again what does this mean?  What are not spending money on?  Are you saying that Alumni should be "buying recruits"

[Pakuni]

We have money to be elite. Now it is time to see if the school wants to be elite.

So, what's Goose's prescription for Marquette magically becoming elite? "Wanting" to become elite doesn't mean you will or can become elite.

[MerrittsMustache]

So, what's Goose's prescription for Marquette magically becoming elite? "Wanting" to become elite doesn't mean you will or can become elite.

Buzz will require that his staff and the players all read The Secret.

[dgies9156]

In Basketball recruiting you have to take the next step, you can see what Al did.  First George Thompson, got Dean with Ric Cobb, but the next step was Jim Chones, after that and being in the Top 5 every year it got easier, then came McNeal, Lucas, Bo Eliis, Butch, Whitehead, you need that one stud that takes you to the next level.  

Absolutely. I think three things are critical. One is to have a university that ball players want to attend. Marquette isn't located in Gainsville, Fla., or on Malibu, but we have an open and welcoming university that adores basketball over any other sport. And as much as some of us will snicker at Milwaukee, it can be a very inviting and interesting place. People seem to want to come here.

Second, you build on what you have. Al did it, usuing Thompson, Cobb and Meminger as a base to get the best. Buzz is doing the same thing.

The third is the coach. We need long-term continuity. Had we kept the tanned one, we might be a Final Four candidate regularly by now. Keep Buzz happy another couple of years and the ceiling is net cutting time at the NCAA Championship. Period.

[Goose]

AnotherMU

Locking Buzz into a "real" long term deal. If we allow Buzz to flirt with other jobs or leave it will not be because of money. We are spending money and as I stated months ago ROI is not fantastic. We spent like elite program and are on outside looking in because of coaching continuity. We have the guy to take us to next level and we need to capitalize on it.

Too many guys on here pull inside jobs because we have this great basketball budget. That means nothing to me if the program is not reflective of the spending. In addition, MU does not have a great basket ball budget...one key booster has a great basketball budget that he gives MU.

[GGGG]

How much does that booster really give annually anyway?

[Goose]

Sultan,
He pays a big part of the budget. No way in hell MU pays a coach big time money out of their own pockets. We have been very blessed on having that booster. More importantly, I thought he was nuts with his Buzz endorsement and that proved to be best hire in long time.

[Benny B]

I have no idea what this means.  What are we lacking because we do not have the money?  

Facilities?  No the Al is among the best among.  

Filling an Arena?  Nope, we are among the top 20 year and year out in attendance (and the only non-football school on that list).  

Buzz not given the resources he needs?  No again, he has a private plane.

So, please explain.

Not to put words in PTM's mouth, but I was referring to the "off-the-record" money.  What you've cited above qualifies as "on-the-record."

"Off-the-record" money are the funds that go into:
1) Paying the athletes, their families, and their coaches/handlers, either directly or indirectly.
2) Paying for the attorneys if/when you're investigated by the NCAA.
3) Paying "hush" money (e.g. whoever paid off Lance Thomas' "settlement" & made the jeweler unwilling to talk to the NCAA)
4) Supporting the program/institution if/when they happened to be fined, sanctioned, etc.

#4 is the big one...  for an institution like Marquette - whose athletic department only has one revenue sport (relatively speaking) - sanctions could mean millions of dollars a year in ticket revenues, donations, tournament shares, etc., especially if they include a post-season ban... MU simply doesn't have the other sports and/or donor base that could keep the athletic program afloat for an indefinite period of time if - HYPOTHETICALLY - Dick Strong was caught writing rent checks to the Parker family.

[🏀]

Not to put words in PTM's mouth, but I was referring to the "off-the-record" money.  What you've cited above qualifies as "on-the-record."

"Off-the-record" money are the funds that go into:
1) Paying the athletes, their families, and their coaches/handlers, either directly or indirectly.
2) Paying for the attorneys if/when you're investigated by the NCAA.
3) Paying "hush" money (e.g. whoever paid off Lance Thomas' "settlement" & made the jeweler unwilling to talk to the NCAA)
4) Supporting the program/institution if/when they happened to be fined, sanctioned, etc.

#4 is the big one...  for an institution like Marquette - whose athletic department only has one revenue sport (relatively speaking) - sanctions could mean millions of dollars a year in ticket revenues, donations, tournament shares, etc., especially if they include a post-season ban... MU simply doesn't have the other sports and/or donor base that could keep the athletic program afloat for an indefinite period of time if - HYPOTHETICALLY - Dick Strong was caught writing rent checks to the Parker family.

Benny is correct I was referring to the dirty money.

However, the Al is great, but every year another blue blood is building something better. Also, our athletes live in Carpenter and Humphrey. Way behind when compared to the blue bloods.

[GGGG]

Sultan,
He pays a big part of the budget. No way in hell MU pays a coach big time money out of their own pockets. We have been very blessed on having that booster.

We are undoubtedly blessed.  But honestly, he pays a "big part of the budget?"  The budget is $16 million.  Now I am sure that student grants-in-aid are counted toward that, and MU probably eats that, but does he provide $1 million a year?  More?

[Goose]

He is north of a $1 million from what I have heard. In addition, he has helped get other folks to join the party.

[NersEllenson]

So let me correct your statement ... MU can and should be a is an established top 20 program year in and year out.  My  fear is that the school does not understand what it takes to accomplish that this because they made it happen. Being top in any walk of life is hard and college athletics is tougher because you are dealing with kids.

Think you give far too much credit to a "school" making it happen, as opposed to the coach at the school.  Granted, Wild and Cords were all in to support the men's basketball program - however, seems the current regime has a different philosophy.  If they run off the best coach the school has had since Al McGuire, over a few minor off court incidents - the same variety and kind that happen all over the country....this "school" will not make any consistent athletic success happen.

[Tugg Speedman]

We spent like elite program and are on outside looking in because of coaching continuity. We have the guy to take us to next level and we need to capitalize on it.

Goose, you're starting to worry me.  After starting the non-existent Hiroshima stuff at the beginning of the summer, now you're worried about coaching continuity because we had exactly one coaching change in the last 15 years.  And in that change we took the assistant coach and did not miss a beat.

What schools have had more continuity than us in the last 15 years?  Not UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky, Uconn (this year) or UNC (remember Matt Dougherty?).  Yes to Mich State, Syracuse and Duke.

So please further explain this non-existent continuity problem we seem to have.

[Tugg Speedman]

Benny is correct I was referring to the dirty money.

However, the Al is great, but every year another blue blood is building something better. Also, our athletes live in Carpenter and Humphrey. Way behind when compared to the blue bloods.

So do other schools organize the dirty money or should I have take it upon myself to contact Looney and Stone and "see what they need?"