Marquette fires Scott Monarch. Suspends HC Buzz Williams for one League game

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The motivations for Monarch lying are one of the following...

1. There is a "zero tolerance policy" so he was screwed anyway

2. He thought it would work, but didn't realize they had hard evidence against him (which they did by the way.)

3. He thought he was a "made man," and Buzz would win a power struggle if it came to that

Yea, I'm not questioning why he lied, I'm more questioning why he did it. It's a cardinal rule. I know he's trying to "sell" the kid on MU, but I don't think a shirt and a ride was going to do that anyways. Just seems like a silly/careless mistake.

[madtownwarrior]

"pretty much says he's going to help his coach become better, that his coach ties his tie too tight, and will either have his head explode or will irrevocably offend somebody"

I love Buzz but:

1)  It's the AD's job to help coaches become better (I don't take this literally as in X's and O's but in program matters, dealing with the media, player situations like handling the assault situation in a proper way, etc) - isn't that his job?
2)  don't you think Buzz needs to relax some or he will burnout as well as do something he regrets (Mclavine interview, WVU dance, where's the line where he does something that isn't adored by all - believe it or not, not everybody thought the dance was a great thing)

You are so fixated on that article & have no idea what the actual relationship is with Buzz and LW - give a rest already...

[bilsu]

I would be worried about not being good enough to be bounced in the first round. If Buzz would leave, I'm very worried about how the next hiring will go. Granted I was worried after losing Crean too.

Even if MU did not make the tournament, why would Buzz leave with the 414 trio coming in? I am not worried about having a bad year. I am worried about the next 18-22 year old doing something stupid.

[kmwtrucks]

To be a good recruiter you need to have some personality, You are trying to convince 16 years olds that your school is better and you as a coach are better for him then the other 10-20 schools recruiting him.  If you want a accountant for a coach then you are going to be bad at recruiting.  If you worked  in a sales job for 2-3 years and you were killing it and the sales maanger that hired you got let go and a new guy came in that you make twice as much as him becuase of your track record for sales and he was micro managing you how would you feel about it him.  That is my concern.  The AD should be invloved when it comes to compliance, But in regard to the WV dance the AD should have a good laugh about it with the Coach especially now that they dumped the Big East.  

[Lennys Tap]

The motivations for Monarch lying are one of the following...

1. There is a "zero tolerance policy" so he was screwed anyway

2. He thought it would work, but didn't realize they had hard evidence against him (which they did by the way.)

3. He thought he was a "made man," and Buzz would win a power struggle if it came to that

Number 1 seems most likely, either an explicit "zero tolerance policy" or warnings that made it, to Monarch at least, implicit.

Number 2 is possible, especially in conjunction with number 1.

Number 3, very unlikely. Even a coach who is running the athletic department (and Buzz most certainly isn't) can't save a coach from the guillatine if he's caught lying to investigators. Everyone, Monarch included, knows that.

[mu_hilltopper]

Responses on the "What was Monarch's motivation" .. Generally, I think people are confusing "motivation" with justifications/rationalizations.

Most logical - something that's been communicated from the administration to the basketball staff (either directly or by way of a general hostile attitude) made Monarch think that he would get the axe even if he told the truth.

The other possibility, I suppose, is that there are major violations that Buzz, LW and Fr Pilarz are hoping get lost in the shuffle after they made Monarch the sacrificial lamb.

Certainly, losing one's job could be a huge motivation for covering up a mistake.  I can't imagine Monarch thinking that, though.  It's a secondary violation, and Monarch is one of Buzz's best buddies.  As people have theorized many times: it wasn't the crime, it was the dishonesty that got him fired.

As for Monarch being motivated by your second possibility, that "there are other major violations that .. Buzz, LW, FP are hoping get lost in the shuffle" after Monarch was made a sacrificial lamb" .. well.. that couldn't have motivated Monarch.  It could be a motivation for Buzz and the admins, but not for Monarch.

Or he figured he could get away with it, or that it was so insignificant that he wouldn't lose his job about it, even if he lied.

Or he figured he was safe because he's Buzz's best friend.

There's like 18 possibilities for why he would do this. I really hope this was just in error in judgment (as Buzz put it) on Monarch's part.

That he could 'get away with it' isn't a primary motivation, unless you're a pathological kind of guy, lying constantly.  I don't think Monarch is that guy.

My assumption is that he did it, didn't plan on mentioning it to anyone (especially after the MU admins tightened the reins a little bit) but someone got word of it, he was caught off guard when confronted, lied about it and then stubbornly stuck with the lie as it spiraled out of control.

This is very plausible, although skims the possible motivation aspect.

Here's my answer.

Monarch mistakenly commits this secondary violation.  I say mistakenly because I don't think he's a habitual violator.  Lots of rules, small error in recalling the rules/judgement.  Heck, maybe he gave away a dozen shirts to a group, then realized a recruit was in that group.  (Best case scenario, but possible.)

At some point, he realizes this mistake, whether by himself or that someone asks about it.  I think his motivation for being dishonest is simple.  He doesn't want himself, nor MU implicated in a recruiting violation.

While he'd like to escape being associated with this error, he's also looking out for his boss, the BB program, the department, and MU in general.  He's being loyal to the group, albeit in less than honest methods.

Not that I'd applaud dishonesty, but hey, it's not like the guy is evil or trying to undermine the program.   He made a mistake.  His dishonesty is a double edged issue.  His heart was in the right place, albeit his judgement was not.

[ATWizJr]

Even if MU did not make the tournament, why would Buzz leave with the 414 trio coming in? I am not worried about having a bad year. I am worried about the next 18-22 year old doing something stupid.

Some would say that being an 18-22 year old is often synonymous with doing something stupid.  Comes with the territory and is pervasive. Not exclusive to MU.

[kmwtrucks]

How many recruiting violations do you think actually ever get found out and reported?  50% 30%?  If it was an exact sceince then how do guys make 680 illegal calls before its reported?  I'm guessing lots of T-shirts and single calls never come to light. IMO.  Every recruit I see has tons of t-shirts and hats from the schools recruiting them.   I'm not just talkin just MU.

[mu_hilltopper]

The motivations for Monarch lying are one of the following...

1. There is a "zero tolerance policy" so he was screwed anyway

2. He thought it would work, but didn't realize they had hard evidence against him (which they did by the way.)

3. He thought he was a "made man," and Buzz would win a power struggle if it came to that

For any of those to be true, you'd have to believe MU would "screw" (fire?) someone over a SECONDARY VIOLATION.  And not just fire an intern (or Notre Dame grad) .. fire one of the main members of the coaching staff.    

I don't find that plausible, I don't care what kind of warpath the administration is on. 

[brewcity77]

Monarch mistakenly commits this secondary violation.  I say mistakenly because I don't think he's a habitual violator.  Lots of rules, small error in recalling the rules/judgement.  Heck, maybe he gave away a dozen shirts to a group, then realized a recruit was in that group.  (Best case scenario, but possible.)

At some point, he realizes this mistake, whether by himself or that someone asks about it.  I think his motivation for being dishonest is simple.  He doesn't want himself, nor MU implicated in a recruiting violation.

While he'd like to escape being associated with this error, he's also looking out for his boss, the BB program, the department, and MU in general.  He's being loyal to the group, albeit in less than honest methods.

Not that I'd applaud dishonesty, but hey, it's not like the guy is evil or trying to undermine the program.   He made a mistake.  His dishonesty is a double edged issue.  His heart was in the right place, albeit his judgement was not.

+1

Excellent post, and I'd guess this hits very near the mark. A rare sighting of sanity in what is swiftly becoming an insane world.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Monarch mistakenly commits this secondary violation.  I say mistakenly because I don't think he's a habitual violator.  Lots of rules, small error in recalling the rules/judgement.  Heck, maybe he gave away a dozen shirts to a group, then realized a recruit was in that group.  (Best case scenario, but possible.)

At some point, he realizes this mistake, whether by himself or that someone asks about it.  I think his motivation for being dishonest is simple.  He doesn't want himself, nor MU implicated in a recruiting violation.

While he'd like to escape being associated with this error, he's also looking out for his boss, the BB program, the department, and MU in general.  He's being loyal to the group, albeit in less than honest methods.

Not that I'd applaud dishonesty, but hey, it's not like the guy is evil or trying to undermine the program.   He made a mistake.  His dishonesty is a double edged issue.  His heart was in the right place, albeit his judgement was not.

This seems plausible/probable.

But, the initial violation still irks me a little. I understand it was a small violation, but it's a very basic rule, and even recruits would understand it.

"Sorry, (insert name), I can't give you a shirt. It's NCAA rule since we are recruiting you."

Maybe I'm getting mired in the minutia, and at this point, it makes no difference.

If Buzz and his staff are getting smacked down a little, hopefully the MU admin. goes out of their way to praise the coaches and players when they do well. That can be a starting point for everything to heal.

I've been through new bosses, and while being "re-trained"/"corrected" sucked, once I bought in, it wasn't so bad.

[Pakuni]

Monarch mistakenly commits this secondary violation.  I say mistakenly because I don't think he's a habitual violator.  Lots of rules, small error in recalling the rules/judgement.  Heck, maybe he gave away a dozen shirts to a group, then realized a recruit was in that group.  (Best case scenario, but possible.)

That seems a bit of a stretch. A guy who's been around the game for more than a decade doesn't mistakenly forget you're not allowed to give recruits anything of value,  no matter how minor. Also, his doesn't addressing the issue of him providing the recruit with a ride. Maybe he rented a bus and gave a ride to a group?

People sometimes panic and lie when questioned about a potential error on their part. My guess - and only a guess, as is everyone else's theories around here - is that Monarch gave the kid a shirt and a ride home, got called on it and said something misleading in hopes it would blow over. When it didn't, he perhaps thought the first lie would get him in trouble and felt he had no choice but to double down on the dishonesty and hope he could get away with it. That's how these things spiral out of control. We tell bigger and bigger lies to cover up for the small lies.

[Goose]

Lenny'sTap

I believe that LW did what is best for the program and this was not completely a minor infraction. LW, from what I believe, made a sound decision based off the facts at hand. I do not believe for a minute he was canned for a tshirt, ride home and then lying. For all the LW haters, he might have done the best thing for the program with how he handled the situation. While not a fan of LW, I think he gets a high passing grade for how this was handled.

[Lennys Tap]

Here's my answer.

Monarch mistakenly commits this secondary violation.  I say mistakenly because I don't think he's a habitual violator.  Lots of rules, small error in recalling the rules/judgement.  Heck, maybe he gave away a dozen shirts to a group, then realized a recruit was in that group.  (Best case scenario, but possible.)

At some point, he realizes this mistake, whether by himself or that someone asks about it.  I think his motivation for being dishonest is simple.  He doesn't want himself, nor MU implicated in a recruiting violation.

While he'd like to escape being associated with this error, he's also looking out for his boss, the BB program, the department, and MU in general.  He's being loyal to the group, albeit in less than honest methods.

Not that I'd applaud dishonesty, but hey, it's not like the guy is evil or trying to undermine the program.   He made a mistake.  His dishonesty is a double edged issue.  His heart was in the right place, albeit his judgement was not.

You paint a very plausible scenario, Topper. If this is what went down, I only wish someone in the athletic department had taken Monarch aside and said a) we realize this is minor, be honest and you're ok and b) loyalty to the program means telling the truth - not covering up a minor problem and letting it become a major one.

I find it hard to believe that given those circumstances he would have lied repeatedly about such a minor violation.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You paint a very plausible scenario, Topper. If this is what went down, I only wish someone in the athletic department had taken Monarch aside and said a) we realize this is minor, be honest and you're ok and b) loyalty to the program means telling the truth - not covering up a minor problem and letting it become a major one.

I find it hard to believe that given those circumstances he would have lied repeatedly about such a minor violation.

I agree with you, which might mean that there is more to this than just a t-shirt.

Purely speculative on my behalf, but this could be a "last straw" scenario.

[Lennys Tap]

I agree with you, which might mean that there is more to this than just a t-shirt.

Purely speculative on my behalf, but this could be a "last straw" scenario.

Or simply the implementation of an explicit or implicit zero tolerance policy.

[mu03eng]

Lenny'sTap

I believe that LW did what is best for the program and this was not completely a minor infraction. LW, from what I believe, made a sound decision based off the facts at hand. I do not believe for a minute he was canned for a tshirt, ride home and then lying. For all the LW haters, he might have done the best thing for the program with how he handled the situation. While not a fan of LW, I think he gets a high passing grade for how this was handled.

Hold on, so LW covered up for something more serious by firing Monarch?  How does that work?  Monarch isn't going to snitch?  Based on your statement it seems to imply something more serious happened but LW is not divulging that.....ummm isn't that kind of what Monarch was accused of doing?  Maybe we'll never know but does this mean there is the potential for something else to blow up down the road?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Or simply the implementation of an explicit or implicit zero tolerance policy.

Yea, honestly, I have no idea.

We'll see how this all plays out.

[bilsu]

When the violation was first announced a few weeks ago the speculation was that it was a t-shirt given to a player that is now on the team. I do not know how accurate the speculation was. Certainly there was some kind of apparel involved. What is not known is whether it was given to a player that is on this coming season's team as indicated by the original speculation, a player committed to be on 2013-14 team or a uncommitted player they are pursuing. The fact that it also involved giving a player a ride home presumably narrows it down. Originally, I was thinking it would have to be the Milwaukee area. However, it could be anywere, including visiting a player in another state at a school or tournament and giving the player a ride to his nearby home. My original take that giving a ride is a stupid thing for NCAA to be concerned with. However, after thinking about it a ride gives a coach exclusive access to a recruit for the time he and the recruit are alone in the car. The longer the ride the greater the advantage and I can understand why the NCAA is concerned with this. Why not give a recruit a ride all the way back to California. Imagine all the things that a long trip could involve. Staying in the fanciest hotels, expensive meals, touring National Parks, etc. It could take a whole summer to get a recruit home. Easiest thing would be to band all car rides home, then to get into arguments about what is excessive. I am still struggling with the t-shirt part. I think it would be easier to allow schools to give apparel to a recruit (under $100 or whatever value they want to allow) then to try to police the giving of t-shirts. The recruit is being pursued by 10 different schools and receives 10 different t-shirts. I just do not see much advantage to not allowing that. Even a smaller athletic budget school should be able to afford giving out t-shirts to potential recruits.

[NersEllenson]

I can answer this.  While Buzz has been successful on the court, he has also "earned" additional oversight because of problems off the court, many of which were completely within his control.  This latest incident simply reinforces that notion.

And I will point out...again...that while you are fixated on Larry Williams, he is doing pretty much exactly what the leadership of the University *wants* him to do.

So which of the off court incidents were completely within Buzz's control??!!  NONE of the incidents including the issue with Monarch are completely in Buzz's control.  To state Buzz has complete control over other's decision making processes is idiotic Sultan.  Come on. 

So if Larry is doing what the leadership of the University "wants" him to do - then frighteningly we have an even bigger issue - an issue of an academia jealous about the profile of the basketball program, head coaches salary, and apparently hell bent on trying to make MU an institution known most for its academia rather than its athletics.  Sadly, better academia follows with better athletics.  MU improved as a university drastically in the time Father Wild was here with regard to campus improvements, buildings, donations - and ironically this all showed up at a time when we returned to our greatest hoops prominence since Al McGuire. 

[Lighthouse 84]

I make this comment already voicing my opinion that the lying is what got Monarch fired and that LW couldn't avoid letting him go for lying repeatedly. 

So Monarch gives a recruit (who supposedly is with the team now) a t-shirt and a ride.  How does this become public knowledge?  It's not like a recruit is driving around in a new sportscar.  I'm guessing Monarch doesn't say anything and who does the recruit tell? 

How about this scenario?  Maybe Monarch told Buzz about the t-shirt and ride.  Buzz then tells LW, because that's what Buzz is about....doing the right thing when no one is watching.   Except Buzz fails to mention to Monarch he's doing that.  LW then asks Monarch to fill in the details and Monarch lies.  Buzz figures Monarch will tell the truth and is thrown by the lies told by his friend.

OR................

[Tugg Speedman]

So which of the off court incidents were completely within Buzz's control??!!  NONE of the incidents including the issue with Monarch are completely in Buzz's control.  To state Buzz has complete control over other's decision making processes is idiotic Sultan.  Come on. 

Wrong!  This is the Penn State/Joe Pa reference from a few pages ago.

... welcome to 2012 where the head coach is punished for anything that goes wrong.  He is expected to set a standard so that assistants do not violate rules and lie and players to do get ticketed by the local police.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So if Larry is doing what the leadership of the University "wants" him to do - then frighteningly we have an even bigger issue - an issue of an academia jealous about the profile of the basketball program, head coaches salary, and apparently hell bent on trying to make MU an institution known most for its academia rather than its athletics.  Sadly, better academia follows with better athletics. 

When you go to bed at night, are you scared that the "jealous academia" might jump out of the closet and beat you with their books?

Fr. Pilarz worked at Georgetown. He knew the deal before he took the job at MU.

[GGGG]

For any of those to be true, you'd have to believe MU would "screw" (fire?) someone over a SECONDARY VIOLATION.  And not just fire an intern (or Notre Dame grad) .. fire one of the main members of the coaching staff.   

I don't find that plausible, I don't care what kind of warpath the administration is on. 

#2 is simply a less wordy summary of your assumption above.

[GGGG]

So which of the off court incidents were completely within Buzz's control??!!  NONE of the incidents including the issue with Monarch are completely in Buzz's control.  To state Buzz has complete control over other's decision making processes is idiotic Sultan.  Come on. 

Newbill.  And I guess you think Buzz's mantra should be "the buck stops somewhere...over there..."

So if Larry is doing what the leadership of the University "wants" him to do - then frighteningly we have an even bigger issue - an issue of an academia jealous about the profile of the basketball program, head coaches salary, and apparently hell bent on trying to make MU an institution known most for its academia rather than its athletics.  Sadly, better academia follows with better athletics.  MU improved as a university drastically in the time Father Wild was here with regard to campus improvements, buildings, donations - and ironically this all showed up at a time when we returned to our greatest hoops prominence since Al McGuire. 

It isn't about necessarily being "jelous," it is about wanting a coach to oversee a program that is less in the headlines for off the court issues.  I don't think anyone is arguing that basketball isn't important to MU.  Under this administration they went deep into the bank for Isaac Chew for instance.  I think they want off the court accountability in return.