The Everlasting Craptastical Mystery Thread

[MerrittsMustache]

IWB has been right (and wrong) in the past. But it's worth noting in this particular situation, he was the only on-the-record source out there claiming Buzz had permission to talk with SMU, and was the only on-the-record source out there claiming Buzz seriously was considering a move.
He may have been right. He may not have been. But the fact that others out there with reasonable access to both programs (Katz, Davis, Goodman) quickly dismissed any Buzz to SMU talk as "wishful thinking" and the like at the very least calls into question IWB's information.

It was a no-lose situation for IWB. If by some odd chance, Buzz did actually bolt for SMU, IWB would be able to proclaim that he had the scoop first (albeit in somewhat vague terms) and he looks like he has some reliable sources. Now that Buzz is staying, he can claim that there was a lot going on behind the scenes and Buzz leaving was MUCH closer than most fans realize.

[Pakuni]

I "attacked" the content because what you are saying doesn't match what we have seen, and what we know. It doesn't jive.

You might be a visionary, and I might have my head in the sand. I'm not afraid admit that, and my face can be rubbed in it later if you are right. I'll deserve it.

I know how easily and quickly a program can fall. Losing a top-notch coach would be BAD. VERY BAD. But again, MU has done some things right over the past 15 years, so I'm not ready to demonize the administration like some people already have.

+1,000,000
Nothing MU has done over the past decade indicates that the powers that be don't appreciate and understand the significance of the basketball program to the overall well being of the university, nor has any administration - including the current one - given any indication they want to somehow diminish the program.
Likewise, it makes no sense - given their respective backgrounds - to believe Pilarz and L. Williams don't understand or appreciate the importance of high-profile athletics. to the contrary, they've both seen firsthand - and have benefited from - how a strong athletics program can boost the profile of an entire university.

I have no inside sources in this matter, and won't pretend (like others) to know the source of contention between the two Williams (or whether there even is contention). But I do know enough to recognize that claims the university is eager to weaken its greatest marketing tool don't pass the smell test.

[Goose]

Pakuni
It was not a Williams vs. Williams issue for 100 time. LW came on along after the friction began. Again, of course they would not want to lose best marketing tool they have...but sometimes crap happens!!!

[TJ]

I "attacked" the content because what you are saying doesn't match what we have seen, and what we know. It doesn't jive.

You might be a visionary, and I might have my head in the sand. I'm not afraid admit that, and my face can be rubbed in it later if you are right. I'll deserve it.

I know how easily and quickly a program can fall. Losing a top-notch coach would be BAD. VERY BAD. But again, MU has done some things right over the past 15 years, so I'm not ready to demonize the administration like some people already have.

Ammo on a piss break or something?

[MUMac]

The "junk" he threw out there was saying: "Could Buzz to SMU actually happen? YES." Every other writer in the know saw it for the nonsense it was.

Sorry, but that wasn't junk.  Buzz did seriously consider it.  Chose MU in the end, but that does not change that he did consider it.  

Try again.

[Pakuni]

Pakuni
It was not a Williams vs. Williams issue for 100 time. LW came on along after the friction began. Again, of course they would not want to lose best marketing tool they have...but sometimes crap happens!!!

Goose .... you've gone from claiming that the administration was very intentionally trying to scale back the basketball program to a St. Louis-like level (which, despite your recent praise, you used pejoratively) to "sometimes crap happens."
Which is it? Either they want to diminish the program or they don't.

[MUMac]

Please go back and look at my posts in this thread. I posted what I knew and also what I thought. Let me know how, in the end, I was wrong.

As did IWB.  That was my point.  Yet, you chose to blast him.  And that is after you chastised people for blasting you on the DePaul thread.  I just don't get that.  To each their own, I guess.

[Avenue Commons]

Sorry, but that wasn't junk.  Buzz did seriously consider it.  Chose MU in the end, but that does not change that he did consider it.  

Try again.

Buzz did not "seriously" consider it. He used SMU for leverage. I've done the same thing.

[MUMac]

IWB has been right (and wrong) in the past. But it's worth noting in this particular situation, he was the only on-the-record source out there claiming Buzz had permission to talk with SMU, and was the only on-the-record source out there claiming Buzz seriously was considering a move.
He may have been right. He may not have been. But the fact that others out there with reasonable access to both programs (Katz, Davis, Goodman) quickly dismissed any Buzz to SMU talk as "wishful thinking" and the like at the very least calls into question IWB's information.

Who do you think his source was?  That is the answer as to why he had the information that others did not.   

[MUMac]

Buzz did not "seriously" consider it. He used SMU for leverage. I've done the same thing.

So says you.  Frankly, I do not believe you.  I guess that is junk from you then, right?

What "leverage" did Buzz get out of this? 

[Tugg Speedman]

Pakuni
It was not a Williams vs. Williams issue for 100 time. LW came on along after the friction began. Again, of course they would not want to lose best marketing tool they have...but sometimes crap happens!!!

But crap is not happening, Buzz is staying.  No one knows what the BW v LW relationship will be in a year, let alone next month.  BW and LW do not know!

Let us know what its like at the end of the summer.  I could be much better or much worse and what happened this week will might have little to do with how it evolves.

If BW wants to stay, he will forge a working relationship with LW.  If he does not want to stay, nothing that LW will do, can do, has done, will change that.

[MerrittsMustache]

Buzz did not "seriously" consider it. He used SMU for leverage. I've done the same thing.

You were in the running for the SMU job?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

2002
Trust me I was 100% correct on friction between admin and Buzz. If that still is in question you do have your head in the sand. Again if you read your post you are stating your opinion trumps what I know. Seriously do not care...glad we can talk about recruiting even better players down the road.

I'm using the facts that I know, based upon MU's track record the past 10 years.  
- Coaches salary
- athletic facilities
- private charters
- attendance way up
- commitment to an additional sport
- Coaching upgrades for men's soccer and women's volleyball
- high donations/ticket revenue
- President and AD from private schools that use sports to create revenue/marketing

These are all facts from the past 10 years of basketball nirvana.

You could be entirely correct that MU wants to dial back athletics. You could have a source that knows everything I don't. I fully admit that. I Have NO IDEA. You could be Fr. Pilarz for all I know.

I'm not dismissing what you are saying just because I don't like it. What you are saying just doesn't "fit" with what we (the general public) have seen over the past 10 years.

[Pakuni]

Who do you think his source was?  That is the answer as to why he had the information that others did not.   

Are you sugesting Buzz was his source?
If Buzz wanted to use the SMU interest to gain leverage - and it's pretty apparent that was the case - I'm pretty sure he could have taken it to an outlet with far greater reach and impact than IWB's blog.

[Goose]

2002
I am NOT saying they wanted to scale back based on facts...that is opinion. This is fact...if Buzz was allowed to go to SMU it would have scaled because of bthe stupidity of nudging him out.

[MUMac]

Are you sugesting Buzz was his source?
If Buzz wanted to use the SMU interest to gain leverage - and it's pretty apparent that was the case - I'm pretty sure he could have taken it to an outlet with far greater reach and impact than IWB's blog.

Who said Buzz was using IWB to get information out there?  I never did.  Buzz could have also used Illinois as leverage, but did not.  Why is that?  Hmmmmm ... maybe because he did not seriously consider that?  Nah, that can't be.

O k, what leverage did Buzz gain in this?  Don't give me supposition, give me facts.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

2002
I am NOT saying they wanted to scale back based on facts...that is opinion. This is fact...if Buzz was allowed to go to SMU it would have scaled because of bthe stupidity of nudging him out.

Fair enough. I guess that's where we will agree to disagree.

MU isn't DUKE, but I don't think Buzz leaving would set the school back to 1996. That is clearly my own opinion, so I guess we can leave it at that.

On the plus side, I love MU hoops, and I love that Buzz is staying.

[Goose]

2002
Agreed on Buzz and MU ball.

[Rubie Q]

Are you sugesting Buzz was his source?
If Buzz wanted to use the SMU interest to gain leverage - and it's pretty apparent that was the case - I'm pretty sure he could have taken it to an outlet with far greater reach and impact than IWB's blog.

Except Buzz knows no one else would run with it, because Goodman, Katz, Davis, et al, knew there was no way he was seriously considering taking that job.

[Pakuni]

O k, what leverage did Buzz gain in this?  Don't give me supposition, give me facts.

Seriously?
It caused a huge tempest among the people who care about MU basketball, leading them to flood administrators' phone lines and email inboxes with (I'm sure all reasonable and well written) demands that they do whatever necessary to keep Buzz happy and in Milwaukee. So much so the university felt compelled to make a statement, something that never happened regarding any other ride on the coaching carousel (during the Crean years or last year).
You don't think that's leverage? You don't think Buzz Williams is more powerfully positioned today than he was a month ago?

But since you're demanding facts, how about you give some.
Who was IWB's source? How do you know this? How, and from whom, are you aware that Buzz seriously considered an SMU offer? What was the offer?
Don't give me supposition. Give me facts.

[Pakuni]

Who said Buzz was using IWB to get information out there?  I never did.  Buzz could have also used Illinois as leverage, but did not.  Why is that?  Hmmmmm ... maybe because he did not seriously consider that?  Nah, that can't be.

Because Buzz is/was far, far down Illinois' wish list.
Hard to gain leverage from a non-existent job offer.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Ammo on a piss break or something?

He was doing curls in the corner.

/flex-off with ammo
//lose again
///damn

[MUMac]

Because Buzz is/was far, far down Illinois' wish list.
Hard to gain leverage from a non-existent job offer.

So you know that if Buzz showed interest that Illinois would not?  I just don't buy the cr@p your selling today. 

Anyway, this thread has wasted too much of my life.  You will never see another persons point of view, so have at the last response, this thread is done to me.

[lurch91]

Anyway, this thread has wasted too much of my life.  You will never see another persons point of view, so have at the last response, this thread is done to me.

NOOOOO, don't hate the thread, hate the game!

[🏀]

He was doing curls in the corner.

/flex-off with ammo
//lose again
///damn

Hard to beat a professional 'roider.