The Everlasting Craptastical Mystery Thread

[JTBMU7]

10 pages on this garbage? sounds like everyone is having trouble coping with the season being over....

[Les Nessman]

What you are missing or not getting is the douchebaggery that is LW and yes, Fr. Pilarsz as well. They do NOT care about the BB program like most in charge would. Their "vision" is to improve the University and it's "image", and they are so smart they think that can be done without a relevant BB program. Unfortunately,  I think we are all about to find out. LW came from Notre Dame. Notre Dame has not made a Sweet 16 in many years. But they are credited with being a "prestigious" school. That's fine with the folks at ND. Their BB program doesn't make their school, and that's what they want at MU.

No crap, their football team makes all their money.

Also, Goose, how long have you been saying what you've been saying? Oh yeah, two months. I know because you've mentioned it in over half of your posts.

[nyg]

Because I was so distraught and angry and not thinking clearly. He did mention something that the new Admin MAY think that Buzz's boot camp may be treating the players to harshly. I would also ASSUME it's in reference to Buzz having his players backs, regardless. LW wants to do things the Notre Dame way.

Why in god's name would a University President be concerned on how a basketball coach runs a pre-season workout circuit?  If any validity to this, it is insane.  

[Hoopaloop]

What you are missing or not getting is the douchebaggery that is LW and yes, Fr. Pilarsz as well. They do NOT care about the BB program like most in charge would. Their "vision" is to improve the University and it's "image", and they are so smart they think that can be done without a relevant BB program. Unfortunately,  I think we are all about to find out. LW came from Notre Dame. Notre Dame has not made a Sweet 16 in many years. But they are credited with being a "prestigious" school. That's fine with the folks at ND. Their BB program doesn't make their school, and that's what they want at MU.

Again, I call bull crap.  You're telling me a former professional athlete that busted his balls to get to the NFL and achieve great things athletically and academically (he's an attorney) believes the basketball program should be irrelevant and athletics aren't important?  I don't buy it.  It is against his very own personal accomplishments.  Notre Dame's basketball program is their 2nd sport.  It's all about football at Notre Dame and they are ok with their basketball program having good kids, staying out of the press with bad apples and still making the NCAA tournament.   At MU, the basketball program is ND's football program. ND does things quite differently for football than basketball, and Larry Williams would know this.  I expect that they will treat MU basketball in the same fashion.  

[Goose]

Hoop....school has to protect itself but either their are real problems or no problems. If real problems publicly address them and/or fire the coach. If the problems are minor treat them as such. If we are going to run scared because other schools had big issues the race is over.

[Hoopaloop]

Hoop....first time since CUSA that we are going backwards in conference. Things change and so does the target. We spend crazy money to achieve decent levels and may e they think is it really worth it? We spend like we have Kentucky type success and are no better than Xavier.

That argument is valid.  We spend a lot considering the results that we get.  Though I would argue that Xavier has an on campus arena that would need to be factored into the cost equation that we do not have.

[mr.MUskie]

Again, I call bull crap.  You're telling me a former professional athlete that busted his balls to get to the NFL and achieve great things athletically and academically (he's an attorney) believes the basketball program should be irrelevant and athletics aren't important?  I don't buy it.  It is against his very own personal accomplishments.  Notre Dame's basketball program is their 2nd sport.  It's all about football at Notre Dame and they are ok with their basketball program having good kids, staying out of the press with bad apples and still making the NCAA tournament.   At MU, the basketball program is ND's football program. ND does things quite differently for football than basketball, and Larry Williams would know this.  I expect that they will treat MU basketball in the same fashion.  

It does seem strange that an Athletic Director would come in with the goal of downgrading his major athletic program.  Like the new head of Starbucks saying that his goal was to get rid of the baristas and start selling instant coffee.

[Hoopaloop]

I think there is a difference here.  Crean left us, and we were pissed at Crean not the University, so Buzz got a fair shake and opportunity to prove to us he was the guy.  He has done so and many love him. If the University pushes Buzz out, I think the negative feelings are not towards some guy in Indiana, but directly to the University.  Huge difference.

Crean left partly because of the university as well.  Crean gave us 9 years.  Buzz would have given us 4 and should be grateful as anyone that MU gave him a lottery ticket to coach this program.  That is also the huge difference.

[Hoopaloop]

Hoop....school has to protect itself but either their are real problems or no problems. If real problems publicly address them and/or fire the coach. If the problems are minor treat them as such. If we are going to run scared because other schools had big issues the race is over.

It's not that black and white. 

Can you envision this line of thinking in the athletic department?  Why can't you go to the existing coach and say pull back a bunch.  You took some chances on some kids early on because you felt you had to in order to fill scholarships and keep the program at a certain level.  Now you don't have to do that, you have proven you can coach you don't need to take as many risks.  I'll bet there are people in the university that feel that approach is not only workable, but can be successful as it was in years prior at MU and other schools.

[Hamostradamus]

Again, I call bull crap.  You're telling me a former professional athlete that busted his balls to get to the NFL and achieve great things athletically and academically (he's an attorney) believes the basketball program should be irrelevant and athletics aren't important?  I don't buy it.  It is against his very own personal accomplishments.  Notre Dame's basketball program is their 2nd sport.  It's all about football at Notre Dame and they are ok with their basketball program having good kids, staying out of the press with bad apples and still making the NCAA tournament.   At MU, the basketball program is ND's football program. ND does things quite differently for football than basketball, and Larry Williams would know this.  I expect that they will treat MU basketball in the same fashion.  

Name one thing LW has done since he's been here that leads you to believe he isn't totally in over his head.

[Small Orange Soda]

Crean left partly because of the university as well.  Crean gave us 9 years.  Buzz would have given us 4 and should be grateful as anyone that MU gave him a lottery ticket to coach this program.  That is also the huge difference.

Crean left for what he deemed a better job and said he didn't want to give Marquette the option of countering Indiana's offer because he knew that could have led to him changing his mind.  Buzz would be leaving for a worse job and leaving a administration made up of people who didn't give him that lottery ticket.  I don't know who's right or wrong in this disagreement between Buzz and the higher ups, but it's clear it's way more significant than whatever issues Crean had.

[Goose]

It might be that black and white. Why not run with the kids Buzz is recruiting? They are here on basketball scholarship, not per med.

[muguru]

It's not that black and white. 

Can you envision this line of thinking in the athletic department?  Why can't you go to the existing coach and say pull back a bunch.  You took some chances on some kids early on because you felt you had to in order to fill scholarships and keep the program at a certain level.  Now you don't have to do that, you have proven you can coach you don't need to take as many risks.  I'll bet there are people in the university that feel that approach is not only workable, but can be successful as it was in years prior at MU and other schools.

So you don't see a problem with an administration dictating to the Head basketball Coach how to run his program?? The Dallas Cowboys are a good example here. Why do you think so many Coaches never want that job?? Because Jerry Jones sticks his nose everywhere in regards to the day to day operations of the football team. He has no business doing that and then expecting his Coach to be successful.

[Da 'Lanche]

I heard Fr. Pilarz wants us to be a Division III program with no scholarships except for academics

What makes the above statement any different than "alumni" in the know who say the new president and A.D. want to downgrade the coaching stature and salary and be happy with a mid-major type program?    

The fact is that both these gentlemen have been hired by a Board of Trustees who, one would think, asked questions of each during interviews (especially the president of the university) their thoughts, outlook, philosophy on the future of athletics at MU and especially Men's BB since that is what funds all other programs.   This, by the way, is the same BOT that approved construction of the Al McGuire Center and approved the current high salary (raised tremendously last year to ward off poachers) of the current coach.....Think that this Board hired someone who wants to take MU hoops down a notch or 3?    The same Board that realized the tremendous positive impact of the last final 4 run on admissions, donations and prestige?

I can accept that maybe they have conflict with Buzz and maybe even want him out because of a perceived lack of institutional control on players off the court and its potential damage on the university.   To spout out with certainty and fact that the current president and A.D. are douchebags who want MU hoops downgraded seems like , as others have said, bull.

[GGGG]

So you don't see a problem with an administration dictating to the Head basketball Coach how to run his program?? The Dallas Cowboys are a good example here. Why do you think so many Coaches never want that job?? Because Jerry Jones sticks his nose everywhere in regards to the day to day operations of the football team. He has no business doing that and then expecting his Coach to be successful.

The difference of course is that the Cowboys are in the football business...while MU is in the education business and basketball is a means toward that end.

[GGGG]

Hoop....first time since CUSA that we are going backwards in conference. Things change and so does the target. We spend crazy money to achieve decent levels and may e they think is it really worth it? We spend like we have Kentucky type success and are no better than Xavier.

Maybe they have a point.

[muguru]

The difference of course is that the Cowboys are in the football business...while MU is in the education business and basketball is a means toward that end.

Aren't you Mr. High and Mighty.  Not being an alum, I could personally care less about anything that happens with the school in reality. I care about the success of the basketball program, period. And I won't be renewing my season tickets, or making anymore donations(not just to the athletic department) if they run Buzz out.

[GGGG]

Aren't you Mr. High and Mighty.  Not being an alum, I could personally care less about anything that happens with the school in reality. I care about the success of the basketball program, period. And I won't be renewing my season tickets, or making anymore donations(not just to the athletic department) if they run Buzz out.

Well that is your deal.  I care a lot more about the University than it's basketball program...even though I realize they are both intertwined.  And I'm not being "high and mighty."  Basketball simply isn't MU's ultimate goal.

[Dreadman24]

If Buzz do accept the SMU job then we HAVE to go after a big name coach to keep Marquette somewhat relevant.

[muguru]

Well that is your deal.  I care a lot more about the University than it's basketball program...even though I realize they are both intertwined.  And I'm not being "high and mighty."  Basketball simply isn't MU's ultimate goal.

And what you aren't getting is YOUR(you being an alum) current administration doesn't think that BB is THAT important to a University's image, donations etc. And they are fine with that. They want to "improve the University", by downgrading their bell cow. That's their goal, believe it or not. If you think after that that your University will EVER be the same, and you can still be proud of it, then that's your deal.

[muguru]

If Buzz do accept the SMU job then we HAVE to go after a big name coach to keep Marquette somewhat relevant.

Not going to happen. This current administration does NOT want to pay Elite money for a Head BB coach. MU will become essentially SLU.

[reinko]

If Buzz do accept the SMU job then we HAVE to go after a big name coach to keep Marquette somewhat relevant.

Insane assessment.  My mind is BLOWN.

[Daniel]

Not going to happen. This current administration does NOT want to pay Elite money for a Head BB coach. MU will become essentially SLU.

Bu what Fr Wild understood was that elite basketball brings in millions of dollars of free advertising for the Univeristy, and record applications and admissions.   That's all good stuff which affects the core of the University and its mission.

[reinko]

Not going to happen. This current administration does NOT want to pay Elite money for a Head BB coach. MU will become essentially SLU.

Please please please source this.  Honestly, pretty please with sugar on top.

[Da 'Lanche]

And what you aren't getting is YOUR(you being an alum) current administration doesn't think that BB is THAT important to a University's image, donations etc. And they are fine with that. They want to "improve the University", by downgrading their bell cow. That's their goal, believe it or not. If you think after that that your University will EVER be the same, and you can still be proud of it, then that's your deal.

And you have the great privilege of knowing this information....how exactly?

I am an alumnus and care about the academic, student life, athletics and culture of the university.    I also want a top notch administration to drive a vision forward for my alma mater.   So, please, tell us how you have come to know intimately of the desires, dreams, wishes and culture of our current president and athletic director as it relates to their views on our men's basketball program.   Seriously, your request for us to "believe it or not" is somewhat dependent on that nuance.