Ryan Braun Wins Appeal

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

No one in Chicago considers the Brewers rivals.  In fact the vast majority of Cubs fans cheered for the Brewers in the playoffs.  The Cardinals are our rival.
 

I love this... what's next, each time the Brewers play the Cubs it is their world series?

[TallTitan34]

When I see loads Brewers fans wearing shirts mocking the Cubs rather than supporting their team, yeah, it leads me to believe the games against the Cubs are your World Series.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

For the Brewers fans out there, do you seriously believe Ryan Braun didn't take anything?  Technicality or not, do you believe he took anything?

I would lean towards no for two reasons. First, the alleged level of testosterone was twice as high as they have ever seen it, which suggests that there is an anomoly. Second, on a related note, he doesn't seem to have any of the physical characteristics of people who have taken something (see Cub Sammy Sosa, for instance).

[dwaderoy2004]

I love this... what's next, each time the Brewers play the Cubs it is their world series?

It certainly used to be.  As the Brewers have become actual world series contenders I don't think that's the case anymore.  But in the early to mid 2000's, it was certainly the biggest series played all year in Milwaukee.

[MUMac]

For the Brewers fans out there, do you seriously believe Ryan Braun didn't take anything?  Technicality or not, do you believe he took anything?

I honestly do not know.  Neither do you.  I would say, if it was the NFL's testing and procedures, I would believe it.  I don't have that same faith in MLB.  

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Loads? Like how many? A few dozen in Miller Park each time they are actually playing the Cubs?

Given how many Cub fans obsessively come to MP for their away games compared to the opposite, it would appear that this is the Cubs world series. Hey, at least they get to win this version of a world series once in awhile.

[MUMac]

I would lean towards no for two reasons. First, the alleged level of testosterone was twice as high as they have ever seen it, which suggests that there is an anomoly. Second, on a related not, he doesn't seem to have any of the physical characteristics of people who have taken something (see Cub Sammy Sosa, for instance).

I would add that from the very beginning, Braun has been steadfast in his denial's.  Saying he would be vindicated.  Scuttle butt is that there is more information in his favor that may come out.  We shall see.

[TallTitan34]

Cubs fans go to Miller Park because it is easier to get to (and quite frankly a lot nicer) than Wrigley Field.

EDIT:  It also used to be a lot easier to get tickets to.

[Benny B]

For the Brewers fans out there, do you seriously believe Ryan Braun didn't take anything?  Technicality or not, do you believe he took anything?

Honestly, I don't know.  I'm waiting to hear the press conference at noon before I make up my mind.  Lots of information swirling around with different motivations... we still haven't heard Braun's side of the story.

[wadesworld]

For the Brewers fans out there, do you seriously believe Ryan Braun didn't take anything?  Technicality or not, do you believe he took anything?

I do not believe Braun took anything.  He immediately came out and said it was BS.  Why would the sample collector not take it right to FedEx?  Nowhere does it say "He attempted to take it to FedEx (or wherever he was supposed to send it from), but it was closed," it says "He thought it was too late."  Isn't this matter a bit too important to leave it up to "thinking it is too late?"  To go from 4x the testosterone level ever tested in an MLB player to being clean on his next test shortly after seems weird (I honestly have no idea, maybe it can be flushed out in 4 hours or something, so maybe that has nothing to do with it really, it just seems odd that there is THAT much yet shortly later it is normal).  He had 3 other tests that came back clean this season and he has had over 30 tests done in his career that came back clean.

There is way more to this story than just the 2 extra days that it took to get it to the currier (which is enough as it is, that is definitely enough to think there may have been tampering...may being the key word, not saying it for sure was tampered at that point).  Yes, they won the argument on that, but in no way does that mean he was saying "I failed my test and definitely juiced, but there was a technicality that I can get by on."  A ton more to this story than that.  Braun apparently was very confident he was innocent and by saying it was BS from the start and offering a DNA sample would seem to suggest he knows he took nothing.  And if there was an appeal going on would MLB really have destroyed the sample in question?  My guess is no, that'd be pretty dumb and probably make it impossible to give a fair appeal, so I'm guessing Braun wasn't just saying that knowing it wasn't possible to prove it wasn't his sample at that point.

The real problem in all of this is the leaking of information when it never should have been leaked.  The MLB should have never leaked he failed a drug test before he had the chance to appeal the result, and it should have never gotten to ESPN for them to release.  If this had been followed correctly, nobody would have ever known Braun had ever had to appeal the results of a failed drug test.  MLB is the only one at fault here.

[wadesworld]

On ESPN right now...

Part time collector, thought FedEx would be closed so he brought it to his house, left it in a tupperware container on his desk for 2 days and was thus in clear violation of the MLB rules, Braun offered a DNA test that would have concluded whether or not the sample was tested was from Ryan Braun, MLB said "no thank you" and were not interested in a test that would have cleared things up for everyone.

[jsglow]

For the Brewers fans out there, do you seriously believe Ryan Braun didn't take anything?  Technicality or not, do you believe he took anything?

No.  I don't believe he took anything.

[BlindboyPatSmith]

What if anything changes if we find out that it was Braun himself who leaked the information to ESPN 

Talking head (Byrnes) on MLB network last nite intimated that a 'little birdie tweeted in his ear' that the leak originated from Braun's camp

[wadesworld]

They don't disagree with the process.  They disagree with the decision.  There is a big difference.  Still curious to hear how 20 times the normal amount of testosterone found its way into sealed vials of Braun's urine.  Seems strange, no matter how long they sat in someone's basement before being shipped.

I get that.  But how can they disagree with the decision if they agree with the process?  I'm listening to an interview with ESPN's legal analyst and he said "What Braun and his camp showed is baseball failed to follow its own procedure."  So MLB agrees to this procedure, but when they break the procedure then what do they want to happen?  They are the ones who agreed to having this procedure.  When the procedure is not followed, I do not understand how they can "vehemently disagree" with a decision that is a result of the procedure.

[MerrittsMustache]

No.  I don't believe he took anything.

Replace Braun with Pujols or Zambrano or any other non-Brewer, would you still not believe he took anything?

[wadesworld]

Replace Braun with Pujols or Zambrano or any other non-Brewer, would you still not believe he took anything?

Depends on the situation. Z?  I would believe it.  Pujols?  I don't know.  Look at the guy.  He has the body of a guy that has taken steroids.  Obviously, that does not mean he did or did not take steroids.  But to go from like a 32nd round draft pick or something to potentially the best baseball player ever who played during the steroid era, I would be more likely to think Pujols took steroids AT SOME POINT in his career.  Braun does not have the body of a guy who took PEDs.  Is he a strong guy?  Absolutely.  But it is not outside of the norm.

[reinko]

Wonder if LaRon Landry is on the clear.

[MerrittsMustache]

Depends on the situation. Z?  I would believe it.  Pujols?  I don't know.  Look at the guy.  He has the body of a guy that has taken steroids.  Obviously, that does not mean he did or did not take steroids.  But to go from like a 32nd round draft pick or something to potentially the best baseball player ever who played during the steroid era, I would be more likely to think Pujols took steroids AT SOME POINT in his career.  Braun does not have the body of a guy who took PEDs.  Is he a strong guy?  Absolutely.  But it is not outside of the norm.

Who has the body of someone who took PEDs? Most people would point to the extreme examples - Sosa, Bonds, Canseco, McGwire - but there have been plenty of guys who used PEDs but don't fit the stereotype. Do you think that Alex Sanchez, Edison Volquez or Neifi Perez have the bodies of guys who took PEDs? All of them failed drug tests and were suspended by MLB.

PEDs have come a long way in the past 10-15 years so I don't think that the eye ball test works any more.

[Henry Sugar]

I don't give a crap about PEDs.  Let people take whatever they want.

[Spotcheck Billy]

What if anything changes if we find out that it was Braun himself who leaked the information to ESPN 

Talking head (Byrnes) on MLB network last nite intimated that a 'little birdie tweeted in his ear' that the leak originated from Braun's camp

what would he have hoped to gain by that?

I doubt that was what transpired

MLB needs to STFU - they just sound like a sore loser at this point, how many players that lost an appeal vehemently protested the results and why wasn't that news?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Depends on the situation. Z?  I would believe it.  Pujols?  I don't know.  Look at the guy.  He has the body of a guy that has taken steroids.  Obviously, that does not mean he did or did not take steroids.  But to go from like a 32nd round draft pick or something to potentially the best baseball player ever who played during the steroid era, I would be more likely to think Pujols took steroids AT SOME POINT in his career.  Braun does not have the body of a guy who took PEDs.  Is he a strong guy?  Absolutely.  But it is not outside of the norm.

Alex Sanchez didn't have the body of a guy using PEDs either.

It's not all about bulky strength, especially if a guy was trying to hide it. I don't think Braun is dumb enough to look like Sammy (if Braun took something, which I'm not sure of).

As far as Pujos goes, I think he did/does them because of what you listed above. AND using that same logic I think Clay Matthews does as well and probably Jared Allen. I'm always skeptical of guys who suddenly develop into great players. Certainly come guys develop later in life, but hard to go from walk-on to all-pro, ya know?

[BlindboyPatSmith]

what would he have hoped to gain by that?

I doubt that was what transpired

MLB needs to STFU - they just sound like a sore loser at this point, how many players that lost an appeal vehemently protested the results and why wasn't that news?

He also had nothing to lose at the point the story was leaked either.  From a purely cynical point of view - and I believe from the comments I have read substantiate the following - the leak of this story made ESPN and MLB the bad guy. 

Making ESPN and MLB the bad guy certainly would be in Braun's best interest.  It would make him the victim.  In the court of public opinion - and maybe in the opinion of one certain arbiter - this would work to Braun's benefit.

[wadesworld]

Alex Sanchez didn't have the body of a guy using PEDs either.

It's not all about bulky strength, especially if a guy was trying to hide it. I don't think Braun is dumb enough to look like Sammy (if Braun took something, which I'm not sure of).

As far as Pujos goes, I think he did/does them because of what you listed above. AND using that same logic I think Clay Matthews does as well and probably Jared Allen. I'm always skeptical of guys who suddenly develop into great players. Certainly come guys develop later in life, but hard to go from walk-on to all-pro, ya know?

Unless your dad and uncle were both very successful professional football players and your brother is also a professional football player.  Sometimes it's in the family.

He also had nothing to lose at the point the story was leaked either.  From a purely cynical point of view - and I believe from the comments I have read substantiate the following - the leak of this story made ESPN and MLB the bad guy. 

Making ESPN and MLB the bad guy certainly would be in Braun's best interest.  It would make him the victim.  In the court of public opinion - and maybe in the opinion of one certain arbiter - this would work to Braun's benefit.

What?  This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.  So he was better off having this all leaked and now his image tarnished (regardless of having it overturned) than if it had not been leaked, the decision was overturned, and nobody ever found out he had ever "failed" the drug test in the first place?  I'm going to go ahead and say he had a ton to lose by the story being leaked, and no matter what happens, his image is tarnished as a result of it.  There is no way this is a better result.

[Spotcheck Billy]

He also had nothing to lose at the point the story was leaked either. 

Ah, reputation in the least which he'll never fully regain, if the appeal had the same result this never would have come to light, he lost quite a bit including national endorsement opportunities for some time to come

[wadesworld]

Braun's press conference right now..."I would bet my life that the substance never entered my body."  Said if he had knowingly or unkowingly put a substance in his body he would come forward and admit it.  He is not perfect but has taken responsibility for all his mistakes in his life.

October 1 was the failed drug test before a Playoff game.  October 19th he was made aware of the failed drug test.  Called the Players Union and told them there is no way he failed a drug test.  Told them he would take any and all tests to prove that.  They told him it was 3x higher than any test result in the history of the drug testing, which made him question the validity of the testing.  He literally had not gained a single pound, did not get any stronger or faster, additional power or arm strength as they record all of these things once or twice a week.  Tested 25 times plus 3 times this year and additional time when he signed his extension, never failed a drug test.  18-19 FedEx locations that were open between the collector's house and the ballpark that were open at the time.  If he had dropped it off at that point the sample would have become a number rather than a name.  Confidentiality was lost.  No documentation during the 44 hour period, didn't bring the sample in on Monday until 1:30 PM when FedEx opened at 7:30 AM.  Talked to biochemicists who said if the person was motivated it would be extremely easy to tamper with the sample.  The system is that of which the player is 100% guilty until proven innocent.  He is a victim of the process.  He doesn't have any idea what happened to the sample during the 44 hour period but he is 100% certain nothing was ever in his system.  He respect's MLB position and opinion and is sad it has turned into a PR battle.  Because of potential litigation he cannot go into detail about the process of the appeal.  Truth was on his side and he believed he would win all along.  Baseball agreed to the process that is in place, players are held to 100% perfection and everyone else involved should be held to that too.  Biggest regret is not being able to enjoy the offseason after an incredible season both in terms of team achievements and individual achievements.  The way the process was applied to him was completely flawed, unjust and unfair.  He respectfully disagrees with MLB saying they disagree, he went through their process and was found innocent.  Simple truth is that he's innocent and has maintained that since day one and is proven to be innocent.

Came off very classy.

Kruk said he came off very classy and that you have to believe his innocence.  "I firmly believe his innocence...How can you take that sample and say this is a true sample?...I'm not going to say anybody tampered with it, but you can't get a true test out of it in my opinion."  He didn't throw anybody under the bus including MLB who is coming out and saying they disagree with the decision.