Ryan Braun Wins Appeal

[Benny B]

For the Brewers fans out there, do you seriously believe Ryan Braun didn't take anything?  Technicality or not, do you believe he took anything?

Having heard the press conference, I don't believe he took anything knowingly or negligently.  Someone could have slipped him something, might have been something in the buffet that day... not really sure.  But I believe him that he didn't put this substance in his body, and I don't believe it would have been from a "tainted" supplement either.

[Strokin 3s]

I do not believe Braun took anything.  He immediately came out and said it was BS.  Why would the sample collector not take it right to FedEx?  Nowhere does it say "He attempted to take it to FedEx (or wherever he was supposed to send it from), but it was closed," it says "He thought it was too late."  Isn't this matter a bit too important to leave it up to "thinking it is too late?"  To go from 4x the testosterone level ever tested in an MLB player to being clean on his next test shortly after seems weird (I honestly have no idea, maybe it can be flushed out in 4 hours or something, so maybe that has nothing to do with it really, it just seems odd that there is THAT much yet shortly later it is normal).  He had 3 other tests that came back clean this season and he has had over 30 tests done in his career that came back clean.

There is way more to this story than just the 2 extra days that it took to get it to the currier (which is enough as it is, that is definitely enough to think there may have been tampering...may being the key word, not saying it for sure was tampered at that point).  Yes, they won the argument on that, but in no way does that mean he was saying "I failed my test and definitely juiced, but there was a technicality that I can get by on."  A ton more to this story than that.  Braun apparently was very confident he was innocent and by saying it was BS from the start and offering a DNA sample would seem to suggest he knows he took nothing.  And if there was an appeal going on would MLB really have destroyed the sample in question?  My guess is no, that'd be pretty dumb and probably make it impossible to give a fair appeal, so I'm guessing Braun wasn't just saying that knowing it wasn't possible to prove it wasn't his sample at that point.

The real problem in all of this is the leaking of information when it never should have been leaked.  The MLB should have never leaked he failed a drug test before he had the chance to appeal the result, and it should have never gotten to ESPN for them to release.  If this had been followed correctly, nobody would have ever known Braun had ever had to appeal the results of a failed drug test.  MLB is the only one at fault here.

Your realize he wasn't retested for several weeks after the inital test....plenty of time for things to clear out

[TallTitan34]

It's now being reported that Braun's test which was 20 times above normal wasn't the highest ever recorded.  Apparently tests 70 times the normal value are not uncommon.

[DJO's Pump Fake]

Braun straight KILLED that presser

[TallTitan34]

Braun did a great job in the press conference. 

It still doesnt change that 99.9% of people outside of Milwaukee thinks he is guilty.

[MerrittsMustache]

Braun did a great job in the press conference. 

It still doesnt change that 99.9% of people outside of Milwaukee thinks he is guilty.

Perfectly stated.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Unless your dad and uncle were both very successful professional football players and your brother is also a professional football player.  Sometimes it's in the family.

Could be.

But, he didn't get any of that good DNA in high school, and then suddenly found the good DNA in corrupted college program where his former teammate tested positive for steroids?

Also, his father and uncle played in an era where a lot of players were using steroids. They could have been using for all we know.

Again, none of this is a smoking gun, nor am I implying that it is.

It's easy to look at another teams guy and suspect steroids, but when it's your own teams guy, we rationalize it like "Braun doesn't look like a juicer" or "Clay's dad was in the NFL".

Sports fans I guess.

[chapman]

Dan Patrick reporting that the collector was a Cubs fan (a pathetic and untrustworthy human being), took 37 seconds to state his name during appeal hearing, couldn't look at Braun to identify him, passed two open FedEx locations before going to a closed location, and that Braun passed a lie detector test.  

[dwaderoy2004]

It's not a lie if you believe it to be true.  What I mean by that is Braun doesn't think he took a PED.  Doesn't mean he didn't. 

[JD]

I've always been known as a 1%er...


See my patch on my biker vest

[MU82]

I have seen hundreds -- probably thousands, actually -- of press conferences. Braun was extremely convincing. Though I'm a big-time cynic, I'm also a benefit-of-the-doubt guy. Until I get more info, Braun passes the smell test for me.

On a semi-related note, for those who think body type is the main indicator of juicing, I have two words: Felix Heredia.

[MerrittsMustache]

It's not a lie if you believe it to be true.  What I mean by that is Braun doesn't think he took a PED.  Doesn't mean he didn't. 

Whenever an athlete says that he never "knowingly" took (fill in the illegal substance), it raises red flags. For all we know, Barry Bonds never knowingly took PEDs. He just took what his trainers gave him and didn't ask questions because he didn't want to know. Therefore, when asked, he could honestly tell a jury that he never knowingly took PEDs.

[wadesworld]

Could be.

But, he didn't get any of that good DNA in high school, and then suddenly found the good DNA in corrupted college program where his former teammate tested positive for steroids?

Also, his father and uncle played in an era where a lot of players were using steroids. They could have been using for all we know.

Again, none of this is a smoking gun, nor am I implying that it is.

It's easy to look at another teams guy and suspect steroids, but when it's your own teams guy, we rationalize it like "Braun doesn't look like a juicer" or "Clay's dad was in the NFL".

Sports fans I guess.

Or you could just believe that since neither have been suspended for failed drug tests that they have never done steroids.  That's what I believe.  If that makes me a blind fan with blue and gold and green and gold glasses on then I guess I am a blind fan with blue and gold and green and gold glasses on.  Now if the independent arbitrator (someone with absolutely no vested interest in the case) decided to uphold the 50 game suspension and I came out whining and crying (like some Cubs fans here have been doing for the past 20 hours) about how innocent Braun is, then maybe I can see your point.

I don't believe Pujols did take steroids because he has never been suspended for a failed drug test.  But, as the question was asked, if he gets suspended this season for a failed drug test, then I'd probably say to myself "Makes sense.  He's probably been doing it his whole career."  But as of right now he has a clean record and I believe he is clean.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

 Now if the independent arbitrator (someone with absolutely no vested interest in the case)

Just to clarify....the "arbitrator" was actually a 3 person panel and the suspension was thrown out on 2-1 vote of the panel and I am not a cub fan.

[MerrittsMustache]

Or you could just believe that since neither have been suspended for failed drug tests that they have never done steroids.  That's what I believe.  If that makes me a blind fan with blue and gold and green and gold glasses on then I guess I am a blind fan with blue and gold and green and gold glasses on.  Now if the independent arbitrator (someone with absolutely no vested interest in the case) decided to uphold the 50 game suspension and I came out whining and crying (like some Cubs fans here have been doing for the past 20 hours) about how innocent Braun is, then maybe I can see your point.

I don't believe Pujols did take steroids because he has never been suspended for a failed drug test.  But, as the question was asked, if he gets suspended this season for a failed drug test, then I'd probably say to myself "Makes sense.  He's probably been doing it his whole career."  But as of right now he has a clean record and I believe he is clean.

Braun won a split decision in his appeal which means that one independent arbitrator believes he's guilty.

Sosa, Bonds and Clemens never got suspended for failed drug tests. Do you believe that none of them used PEDs?

Why do you keep implying that it's only Cubs fans who think Braun is guilty? Go check out some of the comments on national sites. The overwhelming majority of posters believe this ruling is a joke and that Braun is a user.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Whenever an athlete says that he never "knowingly" took (fill in the illegal substance), it raises red flags. For all we know, Barry Bonds never knowingly took PEDs. He just took what his trainers gave him and didn't ask questions because he didn't want to know. Therefore, when asked, he could honestly tell a jury that he never knowingly took PEDs.

Or it could just be that he never knowingly took something?

[TallTitan34]

Just to clarify....the "arbitrator" was actually a 3 person panel and the suspension was thrown out on 2-1 vote of the panel and I am not a cub fan.

I believe that the 3 people consist of a MLB rep, a player rep, and the arbitrator.  Most of these end 2-1 and that's why.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

I believe that the 3 people consist of a MLB rep, a player rep, and the arbitrator.  Most of these end 2-1 and that's why.

Now that is a joke.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Or you could just believe that since neither have been suspended for failed drug tests that they have never done steroids.  That's what I believe.  If that makes me a blind fan with blue and gold and green and gold glasses on then I guess I am a blind fan with blue and gold and green and gold glasses on.  Now if the independent arbitrator (someone with absolutely no vested interest in the case) decided to uphold the 50 game suspension and I came out whining and crying (like some Cubs fans here have been doing for the past 20 hours) about how innocent Braun is, then maybe I can see your point.

I don't believe Pujols did take steroids because he has never been suspended for a failed drug test.  But, as the question was asked, if he gets suspended this season for a failed drug test, then I'd probably say to myself "Makes sense.  He's probably been doing it his whole career."  But as of right now he has a clean record and I believe he is clean.

Fair enough. I don't mean to single you out specifically. Just seemed like a good place to jump in.

I don't know if Braun took anything... too much conflicting info.

But, the way you feel like "makes sense" with Albert, is how I feel about Braun.

The guy has had injury issues in the past, and maybe he was looking for a recovery edge to stay healthy. It wouldn't have shock me if he was taking something. I'm not saying he did, but the equation makes sense.

As far as Clay and the rest, you're right, nothing has been proven, so no foul.

I'm just making the observation that fans are quick to suspect and blame other players and quick to defend their own with bogus reasons like "He doesn't have the body type" or "His dad was in the NFL" etc. etc.

Braun might be 100000% innocent. But, saying something like "he doesn't have the body type" is a 100000% stupid, and Brewer fans should not think or believe that.

[wadesworld]

Just to clarify....the "arbitrator" was actually a 3 person panel and the suspension was thrown out on 2-1 vote of the panel and I am not a cub fan.

Braun won a split decision in his appeal which means that one independent arbitrator believes he's guilty.

Sosa, Bonds and Clemens never got suspended for failed drug tests. Do you believe that none of them used PEDs?

Why do you keep implying that it's only Cubs fans who think Braun is guilty? Go check out some of the comments on national sites. The overwhelming majority of posters believe this ruling is a joke and that Braun is a user.

It was a 2-1 vote with 1 vote in favor coming from the MLB Players Association representative (of course they're going to vote in favor of Braun and support their player) and the 1 vote against coming from the MLB representative (of course they're going to vote to uphold the suspension that they placed on Braun).  So the 2 votes that had a vested interest in the case voted accordingly, and it came down to the independent arbitrator, Shyam Das, who voted in Braun's favor.  Hence why the MLB's statement:

“Major League Baseball considers the obligations of the Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program essential to the integrity of our game, our Clubs and all of the players who take the field.  It has always been Major League Baseball’s position that no matter who tests positive, we will exhaust all avenues in pursuit of the appropriate discipline.  We have been true to that position in every instance, because baseball fans deserve nothing less.

“As a part of our drug testing program, the Commissioner’s Office and the Players Association agreed to a neutral third party review for instances that are under dispute.  While we have always respected that process, Major League Baseball vehemently disagrees with the decision rendered today by arbitrator Shyam Das.”

It was, essentially, the independent arbitrator's decision to make, as the MLB and the MLBPA of course were going to vote the way they did.

[wadesworld]

I believe that the 3 people consist of a MLB rep, a player rep, and the arbitrator.  Most of these end 2-1 and that's why.

That is correct.  2 of the 3 people involved are always going to vote against one another, making it essentially a 1 person decision.

[MerrittsMustache]

Or it could just be that he never knowingly took something?

Sure, that's possible. But if I'm a pro athlete who chooses to be clean and understands that there are serious personal and professional repercussions for failing a drug test, I'd make absolutely certain that every supplement I put into my body is legal. If I was willing to take my chances, I'd ingest whatever my trainer gave me, not think twice about it and legitimately play the "never knowingly" card if I got busted. I'm probably giving pro athletes too much credit though.

[MerrittsMustache]

It was a 2-1 vote with 1 vote in favor coming from the MLB Players Association representative (of course they're going to vote in favor of Braun and support their player) and the 1 vote against coming from the MLB representative (of course they're going to vote to uphold the suspension that they placed on Braun).  So the 2 votes that had a vested interest in the case voted accordingly, and it came down to the independent arbitrator, Shyam Das, who voted in Braun's favor.  

Didn't realize that. I appreciate the clarification.

[Hoopaloop]

The danger in saying that he passed 20 or 30 or 50 prior tests is that isn't the end of it.

Marion Jones passed 20+ tests.  A number of cyclists have passed their tests on multiple accounts only to finally get caught.  I don't know whether Braun did it or not.  The herpes medication rumor has been around for a long time which might have triggered something.  He's going to have some added pressure on him this year to perform close to last year to overcome those that feel he cheated.  As Mac correctly points out, not having Fielder only makes that harder for him (or does it give him an out if his numbers drop)?

[TallTitan34]

The Score just had their sports legal expert Eldon Ham on.  Nothing really new but he said:

- Lots of issues jumbled together
- First, from experience he's most likely guilty
- However, MLB did not follow it's own rules
- Rules specifically say you have to put it in a FedEx box (if it was in a UPS box it could be thrown out)
- Even though it is highly unlikely it was tampered with, it still raises questions
- Arbitration decesion is final, however, MLB can go to federal court to overturn it
- Braun's attorny was assistant council at the NFL when Eldon won a nearly identical case for Richard Dent on a technicality of NFL not following their rules