How long is your coach under contract for?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I don't think Buzz would ever take a blue-blood coaching job and certainly not a big-budget (e.g. UT) job this early in his career.  I don't think money makes any difference with Buzz... not to say that he doesn't want to make more of it, but Buzz strikes me as a guy who wants to coach.  As a matter of example:

-- If you gave Calipari a $5M/yr annuity for the rest of his life on the condition he'd never again coach anything higher than a high school JV team, IMO, he would take it in a heartbeat.
-- If you offered Buzz the same thing, I honestly don't think he would.

In any event, I don't know that Buzz would want to go to a program where he could be on the chopping block after one bad year... blue-bloods and big-budgets have no loyalty to their coaches, only to winning.  If even Coach K strung together 3 straight years of NIT appearances, you better believe the calls for his retirement would be heard all the way to Uzbekistan.  Not to say MU fans wouldn't feel some discontent after three years of watching the dance at home, but it's not going to be the psychotic anger you'd see at places like UNC, Texas, Kansas, KY, etc. (one intangible benefit of MU not having a state-wide fan base composed of uneducated rednecks.)  All it would take is a down recruiting year, a few unfortunate injuries, or losing a prized recruit to a rival, and Buzz could fall from blue-blood/big-budget to JUCO ass't in a year's time.  Yes... he could get a guaranteed multimillion dollar contract at one of those schools, but if it's job security (i.e. not financial security) Buzz wants, he isn't going to find any major program that comes close to what he has at MU.

In other words, I think the leash at MU is much longer and quite a bit more forgiving insomuch as while we certainly enjoy and expect to win at MU, most MU stakeholders don't feel entitled to it (present scooper company notwithstanding) and would happily tolerate 2-4 years of NIT runs sandwiched by Sweet Sixteens and the occasional Final Four run.

I think you're exaggerating.

I don't think Buzz is shopping around, but to assume that he wouldn't consider to a top job (if available) is naive.

[warriorchick]

I think you're exaggerating.

I don't think Buzz is shopping around, but to assume that he wouldn't consider to a top job (if available) is naive.

Please enlighten me.  What does our program lack that Buzz has given any indication is important to him?  Has he ever skipped the opportunity to publicly express how lucky and grateful he is to have the Marquette job?  If he bailed for a "more prestigious" post, that would make him among the biggest  backstabbers (not to mention hypocrites) in college sports history.  It would make Crean's unexpected departure look like was dragged kicking and screaming from the Al by Father Wild's henchmen and thrown into a slushy puddle on Wells. If the persona we have come to believe in is genuine, I just can't see it happening. 

I am more worried that given his stress level, he will retire at an early age like Al did.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Please enlighten me.  What does our program lack that Buzz has given any indication is important to him?  Has he ever skipped the opportunity to publicly express how lucky and grateful he is to have the Marquette job?  If he bailed for a "more prestigious" post, that would make him among the biggest  backstabbers (not to mention hypocrites) in college sports history.  It would make Crean's unexpected departure look like was dragged kicking and screaming from the Al by Father Wild's henchmen and thrown into a slushy puddle on Wells. If the persona we have come to believe in is genuine, I just can't see it happening.  

I am more worried that given his stress level, he will retire at an early age like Al did.

I like Buzz. I don't envision him leaving anytime soon. But, let's not be blind to the fact that if a top program (yes, that includes Texas) comes calling, ANY COACH might make a move.

Most successful coaches say all the right things and are well liked/loved... right up until they leave for the next gig.

University of Kansas
- Roy Williams had the KU job. He said all the right things, and was tremendously successful. KU fans were never really worried about Roy leaving.
- Roy left KU for his dream job (after a lot of courting from UNC)

Xavier University
- Thad Matta and Sean Miller said all of the right things about Xavier. When a top notch gig opened, they each took it. (Ohio State and Arizona respectively)
- "I'm not a candidate. It's that plain and that simple," Matta told The Cincinnati Enquirer on June 29.
- Matta took the Ohio State job less than a week later.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1835879

Marquette University
- Al McGuire wanted to leave MU to coach the Bucks. MU wouldn't let him out of his contract.

It happens. Coaches leave sometimes. Doesn't mean they are evil. Doesn't mean they are dishonest.

[MUBurrow]

What does our program lack that Buzz has given any indication is important to him?  Has he ever skipped the opportunity to publicly express how lucky and grateful he is to have the Marquette job?  If he bailed for a "more prestigious" post, that would make him among the biggest  backstabbers (not to mention hypocrites) in college sports history.  It would make Crean's unexpected departure look like was dragged kicking and screaming from the Al by Father Wild's henchmen and thrown into a slushy puddle on Wells.

Since he appreciates what he has, he can never leave? If you leave for a different job, you're automatically a backstabber? He's loved so he shouldn't want any more? None of this makes any sense.

[warriorchick]

I like Buzz. I don't envision him leaving anytime soon. But, let's not be blind to the fact that if a top program (yes, that includes Texas) comes calling, ANY COACH might make a move.

Most successful coaches say all the right things and are well liked/loved... right up until they leave for the next gig.

University of Kansas
- Roy Williams had the KU job. He said all the right things, and was tremendously successful. KU fans were never really worried about Roy leaving.
- Roy left KU for his dream job (after a lot of courting from UNC)

Xavier University
- Thad Matta and Sean Miller said all of the right things about Xavier. When a top notch gig opened, they each took it. (Ohio State and Arizona respectively)
- "I'm not a candidate. It's that plain and that simple," Matta told The Cincinnati Enquirer on June 29.
- Matta took the Ohio State job less than a week later.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1835879

Marquette University
- Al McGuire wanted to leave MU to coach the Bucks. MU wouldn't let him out of his contract.

It happens. Coaches leave sometimes. Doesn't mean they are evil. Doesn't mean they are dishonest.

My question remains unanswered.  To put it another way: knowing what we know about Buzz Williams, what unfulfilled need or want would he have as a coach that would require him to leave Marquette to get?

[Hoopaloop]

I don't think Buzz would ever take a blue-blood coaching job and certainly not a big-budget (e.g. UT) job this early in his career.  I don't think money makes any difference with Buzz... not to say that he doesn't want to make more of it, but Buzz strikes me as a guy who wants to coach.  As a matter of example:

-- If you gave Calipari a $5M/yr annuity for the rest of his life on the condition he'd never again coach anything higher than a high school JV team, IMO, he would take it in a heartbeat.
-- If you offered Buzz the same thing, I honestly don't think he would.

In any event, I don't know that Buzz would want to go to a program where he could be on the chopping block after one bad year... blue-bloods and big-budgets have no loyalty to their coaches, only to winning.  If even Coach K strung together 3 straight years of NIT appearances, you better believe the calls for his retirement would be heard all the way to Uzbekistan.  Not to say MU fans wouldn't feel some discontent after three years of watching the dance at home, but it's not going to be the psychotic anger you'd see at places like UNC, Texas, Kansas, KY, etc. (one intangible benefit of MU not having a state-wide fan base composed of uneducated rednecks.)  All it would take is a down recruiting year, a few unfortunate injuries, or losing a prized recruit to a rival, and Buzz could fall from blue-blood/big-budget to JUCO ass't in a year's time.  Yes... he could get a guaranteed multimillion dollar contract at one of those schools, but if it's job security (i.e. not financial security) Buzz wants, he isn't going to find any major program that comes close to what he has at MU.

In other words, I think the leash at MU is much longer and quite a bit more forgiving insomuch as while we certainly enjoy and expect to win at MU, most MU stakeholders don't feel entitled to it (present scooper company notwithstanding) and would happily tolerate 2-4 years of NIT runs sandwiched by Sweet Sixteens and the occasional Final Four run.

Do not agree for several reasons.

Coach Cal has all the money he needs.   He wouldn't waste his time at this point in his career on something that wasn't going to put him in the major spotlight and deliver a sense of accomplishment.  Sure, Buzz wants to coach but money makes the world go around.  He wouldn't just coach a JV team.  If money wasn't important, then he can take a pay cut and just coach and we can use the money elsewhere.  That's not going to happen, nor should it.  He deserves what he is making in terms of what the market has set.

Why is it that fan bases always go altruistic with their own coaches when coaching changes are in the wind or even when changes are not expected?  Coaches come and coaches leave.

Al McGuire left
Rick Majerus left
Kevin O'Neill left
Tom Crean left
Buzz left New Orleans
Buzz will eventually leave Marquette

The lack of football hurts us in the new world where football is king.  It's not so much about what conference, but what does your school have to offer.  Someone else brought up the Big 12 not being solid or stable, but the schools in that conference have a lot less exposure than a basketball only school in the Big East.  In the eyes of some coaches looking for jobs, this is a key factor.  Whether it does for Buzz or not remains to be seen.  We are at greater risk than a school with football to be left out in the shuffle game.  

Your viewpoint on it taking merely one bad recruiting year, a string of injuries, etc to have him lose favor at a big time program is valid but  on the flip side, it can also work in your favor.  As much as people hate Crean, he will ultimately have better teams at IU than at MU because he can get into a player's home easier with that IU calling card.  He has access to better recruits and it's easier to get that talent.  Crean had to work his ass off to recruit MU, especially in the early days with the Old Gym, a losing team, an average conference.  Buzz has to work his ass off to recruit at MU today.  It would be noticeably easier to recruit as the head coach at Texas then at MU.  At Illinois, it might be easier but not nearly the edge that Texas would have.  I'd call Illinois and MU a wash.

Also, job security at MU isn't guaranteed either.  Those same scenarios you outlined in your post have existed at MU. Look at the number of posters here that wanted Crean gone and he delivered Wade, a Final Four, multiple NCAA appearances in a row.  Imagine if Rick Majerus was our head coach during the internet era.  Do you think if Buzz missed two NCAAs and DID NOT have a Final Four to fall back on that some MU fans would want him out?  That's the nature of being a fan.  We can't go on this board more than 2 straight losses by a certain team from a former coach of ours before we're inundated with rumors that he'll be fired the next time the sun comes up.  The same is going to be true not only at Texas (as you stated) but at places like MU.  We've been spoiled here since 2002.  Down years will happen.  As a coach, you have to determine where is the best place to be, with the best talent and the best ability to get that talent to play for you.  The money, being equal, will be less of a factor.  If the money isn't equal, will be a factor if they are stepping up.  Good thing the administration made a bigger commitment in 1999 to pay and have continued that through until now.  That eliminates one part of the competitive equation.

[MarsupialMadness]

My question remains unanswered.  To put it another way: knowing what we know about Buzz Williams, what unfulfilled need or want would he have as a coach that would require him to leave Marquette to get?

National attention on a daily basis.  How many times are the names Pitino, Calhoun, Boheim, Kryshefwvmskdski, etc. brought in national media attention?  All the time.  Buzz doesn't get that kinda attention.  Even Mike Brey get's more praise/respect from media IMO.  

[Hoopaloop]

My question remains unanswered.  To put it another way: knowing what we know about Buzz Williams, what unfulfilled need or want would he have as a coach that would require him to leave Marquette to get?

I don't think any of us know, but here are some that one could through out there as reasonable.

• A school with strong football which means a permanent home in a solid conference, or at the very least, always will have a home in a solid conference if the conference shuffling continues.


• A larger recruiting base close to the school.  Texas churns out many more DI players than Wisconsin. 


• No state income taxes


• Closer to your home roots

[tower912]

He turned down Oklahoma and Texas A&M when they came sniffing last year.   All meet your criteria, looper.  Very few coaches spend their entire career at one school.   Buzz won't, as he was head coach at UNO, as well as assistant at several other places.   It is the nature to be fired or move up the ladder.   With him having turned down OU and TA&M, the only one with more stature closer to home is Texas.   And if they fire Barnes, they are fools.    This year's team is down because of early entries and if the AD there has an ounce of sense he knows it.    A school that would fire Barnes after one bad year after the run he has had there doesn't deserve Buzz. 
   But I will take Buzz at his word.   Last spring he expressed his gratitude with MU, why it is such a good fit for him, that he was getting used to the idea of putting down roots for the first time in his adult life, and was happy.   And his wife had told him to not mess with happy.   I believe him.   
    One potential problem I see, however, is if he and the new AD have incompatible personalities.    That could upset the whole applecart.    I have not heard any rumors of such, but life happens sometimes.    As for conference stability, our president is a Georgetown alum and our AD is a ND alum.   They understand the relationship between school and big time athletics.   If MU stays close to those two schools, the conference challenge will work itself out.   
     

[Lennys Tap]

I don't think any of us know, but here are some that one could through out there as reasonable.

• A school with strong football which means a permanent home in a solid conference, or at the very least, always will have a home in a solid conference if the conference shuffling continues.


• A larger recruiting base close to the school.  Texas churns out many more DI players than Wisconsin. 


• No state income taxes


• Closer to your home roots

A chance to be on ESPN Gameday regularly - like MU was when TC was here - oh, sorry, that didn't happen - just some Crean fanboy's wild imagination at work.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

My question remains unanswered.  To put it another way: knowing what we know about Buzz Williams, what unfulfilled need or want would he have as a coach that would require him to leave Marquette to get?

I believe Buzz is an honest guy, and I'm glad he's MU's coach.

I know MU has provided Buzz with a ton of opportunity and support, and that has been received with Buzz's gratitude and loyalty.

However, coaching is a fluid profession, and nobody here can't pretend to know Buzz's decision making process.

If Buzz is offered a better professional opportunity for him and his family, he should take it, and we shouldn't hate him for it.

[MarsupialMadness]

I believe Buzz is an honest guy, and I'm glad he's MU's coach.

I know MU has provided Buzz with a ton of opportunity and support, and that has been received with Buzz's gratitude and loyalty.

However, coaching is a fluid profession, and nobody here can't pretend to know Buzz's decision making process.

If Buzz is offered a better professional opportunity for him and his family, he should take it, and we shouldn't hate him for it.

agreed.  why wouldn't he?  we all would.  this is his career, his life.  he'll weigh all the positives against all the negatives and make the right decision for himself and his family.

[Benny B]

National attention on a daily basis.  How many times are the names Pitino, Calhoun, Boheim, Kryshefwvmskdski, etc. brought in national media attention?  All the time.  Buzz doesn't get that kinda attention.  Even Mike Brey get's more praise/respect from media IMO. 

Really?  National attention?  Not everybody in America is so attention-starved that they'd step over their own mother to get into the spotlight.  I'd bet Buzz doesn't even have a Facebook account.  He sure as heck doesn't tweet.  The guy doesn't even have an agent, let alone a publicist.

I'm glad he's a heck of a lot better as a basketball coach than attention monger.

I don't think any of us know, but here are some that one could through out there as reasonable.

• A school with strong football which means a permanent home in a solid conference, or at the very least, always will have a home in a solid conference if the conference shuffling continues.

Who cares?  Last I checked, a whole bunch of non-football, non-BCS schools made the NCAA tournament last year.  Xavier, Gonzaga, San Diego State are a few recent examples of non-BCS basketball programs that are doing just fine.

• A larger recruiting base close to the school.  Texas churns out many more DI players than Wisconsin. 

Buzz doesn't seem to have any problem recruiting anywhere in the country right now.  The guy has his own jet.  He can be just about anywhere in the country faster than Bo can drive to Rhinelander. 

• No state income taxes

Ha!

• Closer to your home roots

Had the opportunity already... turned it down.

[/list]

If Buzz is offered a better professional opportunity for him and his family, he should take it, and we shouldn't hate him for it.

Are his wife and kids going to be assistant coaches?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Are his wife and kids going to be assistant coaches?

No, but I think it's reasonable to assume that a coach would consider his family in his career decisions.

[tower912]

Attention monger?    who dat?

[MarsupialMadness]

Really?  National attention?  Not everybody in America is so attention-starved that they'd step over their own mother to get into the spotlight.  I'd bet Buzz doesn't even have a Facebook account.  He sure as heck doesn't tweet.  The guy doesn't even have an agent, let alone a publicist.

I'm glad he's a heck of a lot better as a basketball coach than attention monger.

Are his wife and kids going to be assistant coaches?

he probably doesn't have a facebook, you're right (smartass).

but he might care (at least a little bit, and maybe one day down the road) about being highly regarded as one of the best college basketball coaches in the nation.

the question was posed about what other programs may have to offer that MU does not, and that's one of the many, many answers.  it doesn't mean that's what Buzz cares about.

[warriorchick]

but he might care (at least a little bit, and maybe one day down the road) about being highly regarded as one of the best college basketball coaches in the nation.

the question was posed about what other programs may have to offer that MU does not, and that's one of the many, many answers.  it doesn't mean that's what Buzz cares about.

Good point.  Marquette has never had a coach that has been considered to be one of the best in the nation, so there is no reason to believe it will ever happen.

[MarsupialMadness]

Good point.  Marquette has never had a coach that has been considered to be one of the best in the nation, so there is no reason to believe it will ever happen.

you're missing the point completely.  the point is, other schools have a much larger national attention than does MU, and that is one possible factor why a coach might possibly want to leave MU for another program.


notoriety as one of the best coaches in college bball is just one thing that national attention can provide.  that doesn't mean one cannot win the award without coaching at a top tiered school -- but it helps when you're always in spotlight.

[jsglow]

you're missing the point completely.  the point is, other schools have a much larger national attention than does MU, and that is one possible factor why a coach might possibly want to leave MU for another program.

I'd say that the list of schools that 'have a MUCH (emphasis added) larger national attention' is quite short and is limited to those historic and frequently mentioned institutions.  Not to bring up our infamous prior coach but I believe him when he said there were only a handful of jobs he'd have left MU for, Indiana being one.  Sure, if Duke calls Buzz might at least listen.  And Texas could be a draw simply because it's home.

[MUBurrow]

For me, the end all, be all in this conversation is that if Buzz came out in front of the MU faithful and said "Its Texas, its Texas" I would understand and believe him.  We make fun of Crean for that because we have the sense that he would have said that at a large number universities upon leaving. If Buzz says it about Texas, given what I/we (think) I/we know about Buzz, it would make sense for any number of the reasons listed - chief among them his home roots, the ease of recruiting translating into less time on the road and more time with his family, and the intangible sense of belonging that might come with coaching the end all be all for many native Texans -  I would believe him and not fault him for it.

[4everwarriors]

Anyone who buys into money ain't that important to Buzz needs a few doses of Exlax. Take a look at how he lives now, comin' from nothin', and its crystal clear, he enjoys nice things.

[tower912]

And he is getting compensated adequately. 

[4everwarriors]

And he is getting compensated adequately. 

Yep, and one can always do better.

[Hoopaloop]

A chance to be on ESPN Gameday regularly - like MU was when TC was here - oh, sorry, that didn't happen - just some Crean fanboy's wild imagination at work.

I'll fix it for you.

Marquette fanboy who remembers the great attention and turnout MU got for Gameday.  Yes, I thought we had it more than once.  Unfortunately we haven't had it since.

What I've seen at the games I attend in Milwaukee is a student section that isn't quite as engaged as they were before.  I don't know why that is.  Is it because Crean used to hype up the students, slapping palms or buying them pizza or hot chocolate and donuts while they were in line?  I'm sure Buzz does the Pizza and chocolate stuff.  Whatever it is, I wish our students were a bit more into Buzz in terms of showing up and cheering.  This is not a bad thing to desire, is it?

[Hoopaloop]

He turned down Oklahoma and Texas A&M when they came sniffing last year.   All meet your criteria, looper.  Very few coaches spend their entire career at one school.   Buzz won't, as he was head coach at UNO, as well as assistant at several other places.   It is the nature to be fired or move up the ladder.   With him having turned down OU and TA&M, the only one with more stature closer to home is Texas.   And if they fire Barnes, they are fools.    This year's team is down because of early entries and if the AD there has an ounce of sense he knows it.    A school that would fire Barnes after one bad year after the run he has had there doesn't deserve Buzz. 
   But I will take Buzz at his word.   Last spring he expressed his gratitude with MU, why it is such a good fit for him, that he was getting used to the idea of putting down roots for the first time in his adult life, and was happy.   And his wife had told him to not mess with happy.   I believe him.   
    One potential problem I see, however, is if he and the new AD have incompatible personalities.    That could upset the whole applecart.    I have not heard any rumors of such, but life happens sometimes.    As for conference stability, our president is a Georgetown alum and our AD is a ND alum.   They understand the relationship between school and big time athletics.   If MU stays close to those two schools, the conference challenge will work itself out.   
     

Did he turn it down?  Was it offered?  These are the games that fan bases and ADs play to show they were not shown up and all that. 

I do not think Oklahoma or A&M resonate anywhere near the radar as Texas.  Especially true when you calculate that Oklahoma was in NCAA hot water which was not going to help their situation. 

I don't think Barnes will be fired either, though his seat could get warmer if they miss.  Firing Barnes would be a dumb move in my opinion.  If they did, Buzz I'm sure would be on their list because he is a good coach and is from the area.  No reason why he wouldn't be on a list.  That is a complement to Buzz one would think.  Yes?