How long is your coach under contract for?

[Lennys Tap]

I'll fix it for you.

Marquette fanboy who remembers the great attention and turnout MU got for Gameday.  Yes, I thought we had it more than once.  Unfortunately we haven't had it since.

What I've seen at the games I attend in Milwaukee is a student section that isn't quite as engaged as they were before.  I don't know why that is.  Is it because Crean used to hype up the students, slapping palms or buying them pizza or hot chocolate and donuts while they were in line?  I'm sure Buzz does the Pizza and chocolate stuff.  Whatever it is, I wish our students were a bit more into Buzz in terms of showing up and cheering.  This is not a bad thing to desire, is it?

Buzz is a better coach and a better person. Crean is a better marketer. I prefer the former, but to each his own.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I don't think any of us know, but here are some that one could through out there as reasonable.

• No state income taxes

I think I just found the smoking gun

[Silkk the Shaka]

A chance to be on ESPN Gameday regularly - like MU was when TC was here - oh, sorry, that didn't happen - just some Crean fanboy's wild imagination at work.

Excellent.

[Lennys Tap]

I think you're exaggerating.

I don't think Buzz is shopping around, but to assume that he wouldn't consider to a top job (if available) is naive.

Most (Crean, Matta, S. Miller,etc.) leave. Some (Mark Few, Izzo, Coach K) don't. We'll all know when it does or doesn't happen.

[MUMac]

Buzz is a better coach and a better person. Crean is a better marketer. I prefer the latter, but to each his own.

The former or the latter?  I thought, by your posts, it would be the former.

[GGGG]

For all the crap that is given to Crean around here, I don't think any one blames him for taking the Indiana job.  He's a Big Ten guy...and was being handed the keys to one of the iconic Big Ten basketball programs...and he put in his time at MU.

I don't think Buzz will leave for awhile...I don't care if it is Texas or anyone.  He has business to finish here.  He has pledged to be the coach here for awhile.  If he leaves after four seasons, I would be infinitely more disappointed in him than I was in Crean.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Most (Crean, Matta, S. Miller,etc.) leave. Some (Mark Few, Izzo, Coach K) don't. We'll all know when it does or doesn't happen.

Agree. We won't know until we know. 

My point isn't to pick on Buzz specifically, I'm simply saying:

Fans of (insert school) shouldn't be surprised if (insert coach) is at least interested when (insert elite school) calls.

I have no idea if Buzz would actually leave, but that's actually the point. We don't know.

[Lennys Tap]

The former or the latter?  I thought, by your posts, it would be the former.

Correct. Edited to correct my mistake.

[Lennys Tap]

Agree. We won't know until we know. 

My point isn't to pick on Buzz specifically, I'm simply saying:

Fans of (insert school) shouldn't be surprised if (insert coach) is at least interested when (insert elite school) calls.

I have no idea if Buzz would actually leave, but that's actually the point. We don't know.

My point is this: some here argue that Buzz HAS to leave if "a better situation is available for him and his family"- more money, closer to home, more prestigious school/conference, better recruiting base, etc., because that's what THEY would do. Those are certainly valid reasons to move on, but the coaching scene is littered with guys who "messed with happy", took a "better" job and came to regret it. Everything Buzz says indicates he "gets" it. Doesn't mean he stays, but it does mean (to me, anyway) that there's a chance he could be one of the rare ones who does.

[brewcity77]

My point is this: some here argue that Buzz HAS to leave if "a better situation is available for him and his family"- more money, closer to home, more prestigious school/conference, better recruiting base, etc., because that's what THEY would do. Those are certainly valid reasons to move on, but the coaching scene is littered with guys who "messed with happy", took a "better" job and came to regret it. Everything Buzz says indicates he "gets" it. Doesn't mean he stays, but it does mean (to me, anyway) that there's a chance he could be one of the rare ones who does.

I think the big difference with Buzz is that we aren't talking about a mid-major. Marquette is in a high-major league, and even before they were, they were still paying their coach at a high-major level. Could he make more at Kentucky, Duke, or Kansas? Sure, he could maybe even double his salary. But the difference between the $2.5M that he gets here and the $4-5M he might get at those schools isn't nearly as glaring as if he were a Shaka Smart-type that makes $1.2M.

The next question is the recruiting issue. So far, Buzz has done a better job than his predecessor of getting high-major talents on an annual basis. The top-100 big man, however, still eludes him. I don't think he'll make the jump on that basis this year, but looking at a school like Texas that has Cam Ridley on the way in, it is a lure. However, if he can keep turning 1-3 star players like Otule and Gardner into legitimate Big East starters and have a line of potential replacements like Durley behind them, that may not be such a pressing issue.

I think after money and recruiting, the next obvious question is winning. Buzz has won at least 20 games in all 4 years at Marquette, but can he win a title here, or reach a Final Four? I think we'd all say yes, even if we aren't quite there yet. While many look at a Final Four berth as a potential launching point to head elsewhere, I think for Buzz it would have the opposite effect and solidify his desire to stay here.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to Buzz. He's said all the right things, and considering the eccentricities that play so perfectly here (no surprise, after Al) I have to imagine it'd take a situation that he knew would be perfect to get him to upset his personal applecart.

But that's the rub...you never know, do you? Sometimes the guy that jumps from the high-major job to the elite job is a Bill Self, sometimes he's a Matt Doherty. And until you arrive, you never really know. Is it worth risking a near-perfect situation? Only Buzz knows, but I fully believe he'll be here as long as we'll have him. And I'd have no problem with Buzz being coach at Marquette for the next 30 years...and that's only if he wants to retire at a young age

[Benny B]

For all the crap that is given to Crean around here, I don't think any one blames him for taking the Indiana job.  He's a Big Ten guy...and was being handed the keys to one of the iconic Big Ten basketball programs...and he put in his time at MU.

I don't think Buzz will leave for awhile...I don't care if it is Texas or anyone.  He has business to finish here.  He has pledged to be the coach here for awhile.  If he leaves after four seasons, I would be infinitely more disappointed in him than I was in Crean.

This is the real key here... for the benefit of the millennials who weren't around to experience society before character and loyalty were curb stomped by greed and vanity, there are indeed millions of people in this world who genuinely will pass up a new - and perhaps better - opportunity to finish what they started or repay a debt of gratitude.  Sure, the D-I coaching profession doesn't exactly seem chock full with this type of person, but can we all not at least agree that there is something different about Buzz?  I don't think Buzz is the guy who is going to screw over MU.  Bear in mind, MU gave him a chance that very few others would; hopefully that means something to Buzz and even more so, hopefully MU continues to take care of him.

Let's put it this way... if all MU is to Buzz is a stepping stone, Rob Jeter might have been head coach at MU right now.  Buzz had three southern opportunities staring him in the face last year.  What do you think is more likely: that Buzz said, "no thanks, I'm waiting for Barnes to get fired next year" or "no thanks, I'm happy at Marquette"???

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

My point is this: [b]some here argue[/b] that Buzz HAS to leave if "a better situation is available for him and his family"- more money, closer to home, more prestigious school/conference, better recruiting base, etc., because that's what THEY would do. Those are certainly valid reasons to move on, but the coaching scene is littered with guys who "messed with happy", took a "better" job and came to regret it. Everything Buzz says indicates he "gets" it. Doesn't mean he stays, but it does mean (to me, anyway) that there's a chance he could be one of the rare ones who does.

Is that in another thread? I don't think anybody here said he HAS to leave, but I might have missed it.

And, I agree with your last sentence, but I'll preface that with a lot of coaches seem to "get it" when they are winning and the fan base is happy. Al is a legend, and he tried to go to the Bucks. It happens. Doesn't make the coach a bad guy.

The longer Buzz is at MU, the better chance he continues to stay.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

This is the real key here... for the benefit of the millennials who weren't around to experience society before character and loyalty were curb stomped by greed and vanity, there are indeed millions of people in this world who genuinely will pass up a new - and perhaps better - opportunity to finish what they started or repay a debt of gratitude.  Sure, the D-I coaching profession doesn't exactly seem chock full with this type of person, but can we all not at least agree that there is something different about Buzz?  I don't think Buzz is the guy who is going to screw over MU.  Bear in mind, MU gave him a chance that very few others would; hopefully that means something to Buzz and even more so, hopefully MU continues to take care of him.

Let's put it this way... if all MU is to Buzz is a stepping stone, Rob Jeter might have been head coach at MU right now.  Buzz had three southern opportunities staring him in the face last year.  What do you think is more likely: that Buzz said, "no thanks, I'm waiting for Barnes to get fired next year" or "no thanks, I'm happy at Marquette"???

Agree 100%. Back in the day, coaches didn't leave schools for other jobs. Just ask Al. Ask Rick.

Some of you guys are hard to please. God help Buzz Williams if he ever decides to do something else. The backlash will be harsh.

[Lennys Tap]

This is the real key here... for the benefit of the millennials who weren't around to experience society before character and loyalty were curb stomped by greed and vanity, there are indeed millions of people in this world who genuinely will pass up a new - and perhaps better - opportunity to finish what they started or repay a debt of gratitude. 

Kudos, Benny. Maybe the most well written (character and loyalty "curbed stomped" by greed and vanity is pure poetry) statement of pure truth ever written on Scoop. Absolutely awesome.

[Canadian Dimes]

I'll fix it for you.

Marquette fanboy who remembers the great attention and turnout MU got for Gameday.  Yes, I thought we had it more than once.  Unfortunately we haven't had it since.

What I've seen at the games I attend in Milwaukee is a student section that isn't quite as engaged as they were before.  I don't know why that is.  Is it because Crean used to hype up the students, slapping palms or buying them pizza or hot chocolate and donuts while they were in line?  I'm sure Buzz does the Pizza and chocolate stuff.  Whatever it is, I wish our students were a bit more into Buzz in terms of showing up and cheering.  This is not a bad thing to desire, is it?

Lets compare apples to apples here fanboy...u and your mentor Chicos dont like to make judgements on coaches til 5 years. 

So lets wait until next year on the "student engagement".  Next year we can compare the "student engagement" of compared to the 5th year of Tommy Naismith's tenure.  You will remember year 5 when MU stumbled to the NIT and lost at home to Western Michigan while scoring all of 40 points with a roster in constant transition and packed with a bunch of barely D1 players and Mu attendance plummeted!

Then for comparisons sake we can look at "student engagement" in 2013, which will be Buzz's 6th year in the program.  Buzz will have a bunch of top flight recruits as upper classmen and prolly a Top 10 team,  what might the "student engagement" be like compared to year 6 with douchebag.  Do you remember 6 years in?  We limped into 19 wins with a pathetically weak schedule and had the lowest attendance in the last 15 years.

Revisionist BS history Purdue boy.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Where is Rick Barnes going?

[Lennys Tap]

Is that in another thread? I don't think anybody here said he HAS to leave, but I might have missed it.

I was sure I read those words but can't find them in this thread. Apologies if I've gone all delusional.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I was sure I read those words but can't find them in this thread. Apologies if I've gone all delusional.

No worries.

Some interesting viewpoints on this topic. I'm realizing that people are really developing an affinity and emotional relationship with Buzz. That's awesome.

I hope MU keeps winning and I hope Buzz keeps making big $ at MU.

[Hoopaloop]

My point is this: some here argue that Buzz HAS to leave if "a better situation is available for him and his family"- more money, closer to home, more prestigious school/conference, better recruiting base, etc., because that's what THEY would do. Those are certainly valid reasons to move on, but the coaching scene is littered with guys who "messed with happy", took a "better" job and came to regret it. Everything Buzz says indicates he "gets" it. Doesn't mean he stays, but it does mean (to me, anyway) that there's a chance he could be one of the rare ones who does.

Who are these some?  Who has said he HAS to leave?

[Hoopaloop]

Buzz is a better coach and a better person. Crean is a better marketer. I prefer the former, but to each his own.

Both are good coaches.  I don't pretend to know how either of them are in terms of people, I have not met either of them and if I had it wouldn't be a true sample size.  From a distance, Buzz seems to be a much more approachable person with a personality that is more inviting.  Personally, my opinion of Buzz is higher than Crean, but I also have fond memories of what MU did in hoops with Wade, the Final Four, the Big East and all the rest.  

Back to the discussion, what can MU, or Buzz, or the student body do to get our students more engaged.  Somewhere we have dropped off there in my opinion.  We are the 12th ranked team in the country, the students need to act like it.

Lets compare apples to apples here fanboy...u and your mentor Chicos dont like to make judgements on coaches til 5 years.

So lets wait until next year on the "student engagement".  Next year we can compare the "student engagement" of compared to the 5th year of Tommy Naismith's tenure.  You will remember year 5 when MU stumbled to the NIT and lost at home to Western Michigan while scoring all of 40 points with a roster in constant transition and packed with a bunch of barely D1 players and Mu attendance plummeted!

Then for comparisons sake we can look at "student engagement" in 2013, which will be Buzz's 6th year in the program.  Buzz will have a bunch of top flight recruits as upper classmen and prolly a Top 10 team,  what might the "student engagement" be like compared to year 6 with douchebag.  Do you remember 6 years in?  We limped into 19 wins with a pathetically weak schedule and had the lowest attendance in the last 15 years.

Revisionist BS history Purdue boy.

When have I said five years is the timeline to judge a coach?  It's a reasonable number and a decent barometer but do not recall that being what I said.  Chico said it often, but don't lump me in with that concrete timeline. 

Why would you compare student participation from a year to year perspective?  We are the 12th ranked team in the country, shouldn't you be comparing student engagement with other years when we were similarly ranked?

I do remember 6 years in, we weren't very good and injured.  I also remember 4 years in and a Final Four.  Does that mean if we don't go to the Final Four this year that's a knock against Buzz?  That is not my point of view, but you seem to have so much anger built in that any success the previous guy had seems to get you all wound up. 

A top ten team next year?  That would be freaking awesome.  We're at #12 right now, I just wish our students got the memo as the BC has been better in the past in terms of home court advantage.

[The Equalizer]

Lets compare apples to apples here fanboy...u and your mentor Chicos dont like to make judgements on coaches til 5 years. 

So lets wait until next year on the "student engagement".  Next year we can compare the "student engagement" of compared to the 5th year of Tommy Naismith's tenure.  You will remember year 5 when MU stumbled to the NIT and lost at home to Western Michigan while scoring all of 40 points with a roster in constant transition and packed with a bunch of barely D1 players and Mu attendance plummeted!

Then for comparisons sake we can look at "student engagement" in 2013, which will be Buzz's 6th year in the program.  Buzz will have a bunch of top flight recruits as upper classmen and prolly a Top 10 team,  what might the "student engagement" be like compared to year 6 with douchebag.  Do you remember 6 years in?  We limped into 19 wins with a pathetically weak schedule and had the lowest attendance in the last 15 years.

Revisionist BS history Purdue boy.

If we compare attendance in Big East games across the seven seasons we'e been members, I think there's a legitimate point that we've lost some engagement this season.

Our previous low-water mark for Big East attendance was in 2006, when we drew an average of 16,517.  

This year, through 7 games, we're averaging 15,780. Even if we draw 19,000 to both Rutgers and Georgetown, we will wind up with an average of only 16,495, making 2012 the lowest average Big East attendance since joining the league.

We're down several hundred fans/game over LAST year--and we're a much better team this year.  

[cheebs09]

I think the main reason for the down student turnout and excitement may be more about the schedule and level of the Big East. Cincy was our first Saturday Big East home game while the students were here. Pitt was the Saturday before classes started, but we also had MLK Day off. I think we would all agree that student turnout for the Cincy game was good, and expect the Georgetown game to be well-attended.

Also, we've faced the top teams in the league on the road. Cuse isn't coming here, Georgetown is later, Notre Dame on the road. We had Louisville for MLK Day at home but I remember seeing the residence halls packed with students still unpacking, and I think the attendance was pretty good from a student standpoint.

Couple the kind of rough schedule with a down Big East, and it means less excitement. During the UConn game in Buzz's first year, the place was electric. However, it helped that UConn was top 5 (2 I think). The Big East then compared to now is at two very different levels. I think that brings about some of the lack of perceived excitement.

[warriorchick]

BTW, I am sure Orangeblood is quite amused that he started this thread with a question that had a one-sentence answer (if that) and wound up with 5 pages of MU fans bickering with each other.

[Canadian Dimes]

I think the main reason for the down student turnout and excitement may be more about the schedule and level of the Big East. Cincy was our first Saturday Big East home game while the students were here. Pitt was the Saturday before classes started, but we also had MLK Day off. I think we would all agree that student turnout for the Cincy game was good, and expect the Georgetown game to be well-attended.

Also, we've faced the top teams in the league on the road. Cuse isn't coming here, Georgetown is later, Notre Dame on the road. We had Louisville for MLK Day at home but I remember seeing the residence halls packed with students still unpacking, and I think the attendance was pretty good from a student standpoint.

Couple the kind of rough schedule with a down Big East, and it means less excitement. During the UConn game in Buzz's first year, the place was electric. However, it helped that UConn was top 5 (2 I think). The Big East then compared to now is at two very different levels. I think that brings about some of the lack of perceived excitement.

The attendance number is entirely skewed this year due to the fact that we are not playing UCONN, Syracuse, ND, or wisconsin at home.  Additionally, The only historically top rung Big east teams we have played at home are Nova, Pitt and Louisville.  Louisville and Nova we played at mid day on difficult attendance days and Nova and Pitt are way down.

Now someone can go make the argument that people should be there to see MU.  They are! MU gets at least 13,000-14,000 in the seats reagrdless of whom they play, which is higher than about 300 other D1 programs.  Above that the day, time and opponent are huge factors.