Don't know if anyone noticed

[MUMac]

Mike Kelly was not there to inform, but I saw it.  Right after Jae picked up his 2nd foul, he and Junior went to the bench.  Jae sat, Junior went down the line giving everyone a 5.  He came to Jae, Jae refused.  Not only that, but Junior said "Jae" he still refused.  Making it worse, Junior said "come on man" and Jae yelled at him.

Oh my, the horror of it all.  Jae Crowder now refusing to give a teammate a 5.  I hope Buzz get's this all under controll.  Obviously there are serious attitude problems with the team.  Frankly, it appears Blue's bad attitude is starting to rub off on eveyone else. 

Where is ners when you need him.  I certainly had thought he would have been all over this and pointing out the negatives.

Or, maybe Jae was just PO'd at getting two cheap fouls and was not in the mood for a 5.  Hmmm, Vander missed 2 FT's and was PO'd at himself, so he didn't give a 5.  Maybe that is the REAL answer ...

[GGGG]

I blame Vander for setting a poor example.

[brewcity77]

It's okay...Jae's allowed to be emotional because he's a senior leader.

[hairy worthen]

I think it is hillarious to read the things that have some people up in arms. People who think that a team is one big happy family and everyone loves each other all the time has never played on a team. I would be concerened if there wasn't some fire and turmoil through the course of a season.

[MUMac]

I think it is hillarious to read the things that have some people up in arms. People who think that a team is one big happy family and everyone loves each other all the time has never played on a team. I would be concerened if there wasn't some fire and turmoil through the course of a season.

Just to be clear, my post was chock full of sarcasm.  I did not use teal, as I did not think it was necessary.  With all the handwringing over Blue - several pages and many very critical and attacking comments, I was waiting for all the arm chair coaches to go off on Crowder the way they did Blue.  I guess, though, they don't hate Crowder so it's still what Blue did is awful, what Crowder did is competitive and ok.  Frankly, both reactions were fine by me.

[hairy worthen]

Just to be clear, my post was chock full of sarcasm.  I did not use teal, as I did not think it was necessary.  With all the handwringing over Blue - several pages and many very critical and attacking comments, I was waiting for all the arm chair coaches to go off on Crowder the way they did Blue.  I guess, though, they don't hate Crowder so it's still what Blue did is awful, what Crowder did is competitive and ok.  Frankly, both reactions were fine by me.

I undrstood it to be sarcasm. wasn't referring to you.

[Golden Avalanche]

Mike Kelly was not there to inform, but I saw it.  Right after Jae picked up his 2nd foul, he and Junior went to the bench.  Jae sat, Junior went down the line giving everyone a 5.  He came to Jae, Jae refused.  Not only that, but Junior said "Jae" he still refused.  Making it worse, Junior said "come on man" and Jae yelled at him.

Oh my, the horror of it all.  Jae Crowder now refusing to give a teammate a 5.  I hope Buzz get's this all under controll.  Obviously there are serious attitude problems with the team.  Frankly, it appears Blue's bad attitude is starting to rub off on eveyone else. 

Where is ners when you need him.  I certainly had thought he would have been all over this and pointing out the negatives.

Or, maybe Jae was just PO'd at getting two cheap fouls and was not in the mood for a 5.  Hmmm, Vander missed 2 FT's and was PO'd at himself, so he didn't give a 5.  Maybe that is the REAL answer ...

I pointed that out in SJU game thread. Shocked it didn't create a firestorm on here last night.

[NersEllenson]

Here...I'll chime in to indulge you Mac...It was a dick move on Jae's part...I saw it too.  After so many here freaked out on me over the Vander post, figured I'd give it a rest.  Is not exchanging a 5 with a teammate that big of deal, big picture?? No.  Does it take any effort to slap a teammate 5 who is trying to support you in a bad moment?  No.  See it happen all the time on missed FT's guys still 5 their teammate....

Here...Jae's diss of Junior was even more childish and pouty than was Vanders - in that at least Vander was sitting down on the bench...whereas Junior was in plain sight, standing up...and dissed.

And for the record - I am not a Vander hater...at all.  I'm just objective when it comes to his performance, and every other player's on the team.  Vander has made a good amount of progress from his freshman year...but let's be real...his Big East season as a freshman was a disaster - hard to not improve on it.  Vander is valuable to the team, in the sense of being a glue type of guy..who does a little bit of everything okay, yet nothing really well.  He is still very young, entered MU very young, and has some good upside.  He is worthy of being a starter on this team, yet the team can function equally as well (if not better) with him on the bench and Mayo in the game instead...

[GGGG]

Ners doubles down...

[MerrittsMustache]

And for the record - I am not a Vander hater...at all.  I'm just objective when it comes to his performance, and every other player's on the team.  Vander has made a good amount of progress from his freshman year...but let's be real...his Big East season as a freshman was a disaster - hard to not improve on it.  Vander is valuable to the team, in the sense of being a glue type of guy..who does a little bit of everything okay, yet nothing really well.  He is still very young, entered MU very young, and has some good upside.  He is worthy of being a starter on this team, yet the team can function equally as well (if not better) with him on the bench and Mayo in the game instead...

In the 4 BE games, Vander's +/- is -2. Mayo's is -19.

Obviously that's just one stat and I'm sure there was some crossover in PT so it's not a completely straight comparison, but I don't see how you can confidently say that the team is just as good, if not better, with Mayo in the game over Blue given that disparity. Mayo is obviously a better shooter/scorer but Vander is better at pretty much every other facet of the game.

[GGGG]

Someone on the Scout board mentioned (and I can't obviously verify) that in the second half Vander was primarily guarding Moe Harkless...and held him to four points.   Mayo can't defend like that yet.  The next two years they will be playing A LOT together and they will serve very different roles.   It will be fun to watch.

[NersEllenson]

In the 4 BE games, Vander's +/- is -2. Mayo's is -19.

Obviously that's just one stat and I'm sure there was some crossover in PT so it's not a completely straight comparison, but I don't see how you can confidently say that the team is just as good, if not better, with Mayo in the game over Blue given that disparity. Mayo is obviously a better shooter/scorer but Vander is better at pretty much every other facet of the game.

I tend to value statistics...so no counter argument here...with what you've presented - other than what my reactions/intuitions are in watching the 2 players...

[MUMac]

I pointed that out in SJU game thread. Shocked it didn't create a firestorm on here last night.

I caught that after my post.  Was at the game and did not read the thread.  Since I did not see a thread about it, specifically, I thought it might not have made TV.

[National Champs]

I noticed this on TV. Can't they all just get along?

[Canadian Dimes]

I will be the first one to say that Mayo bring some instant offense to the team.  And there is a place for that .. we need some scorers.

With that said Mayo at times plays really reall y really bad defense and can also throw the ball away.  He is quick and athletic and can play very good defense at times as well.  I dont think it is an issue of laziness or being unathletic, simply he is a Freshman and at times get caught doing the wrong thing.  

MAyo is significantly better offensively than Blue and Blue is significantly better than MAyo on defense....not really sure how that can be argued.  The +/- does not surprise me at all from what I have seen.  

[Golden Avalanche]

I caught that after my post.  Was at the game and did not read the thread.  Since I did not see a thread about it, specifically, I thought it might not have made TV.

Was pretty easy to see on TV so it likely helped that it was a home game and I imagine a good portion of the people here are locals who attend.

Personally, I see the hoopla surrounding that stuff to be silly so it's good it never really got off the ground.

[77ncaachamps]

And Al fought a player during halftime.

The point is....?

I think these blowoffs can mean something...and then they could mean nothing.

[MUCam]

I think its not that big a deal. That said, I think it is a dick move and I would expect better from a senior "leader."

This year's team also appears to be lacking the chemistry of teams we have seen at MU in the recent past. Coincidence? I think not.

[Skatastrophy]

I think its not that big a deal. That said, I think it is a dick move and I would expect better from a senior "leader."

It's always a dick move, even when it happens amongst my own group of friends (and I'm sure it's happened with you guy's friends too).

That being said, it has never fractured my friends groups.  Certain guys get fired up in different ways and introvert a little bit because they're being so hard on themselves.  Good friends will realize that about each other and give the guy that's being butthurt some space.  So a dude doesn't feel like high-fiving while he gets his head right, who cares?

[JD]

Has anybody here played on any sort of athletic team before? (Hockey, Soccer, Basketball, etc)

I didn't think so.

I can recall fights breaking out in practice with my teamates, it's human nature.  If you don't do well, or if you get pissed at a call of course the last thing you want to do is slap hands with the cheerleader on the team.  Give it a rest.  These guys see each other about as much as i see my co-workers i'm sure. 

[wadesworld]

Has anybody here played on any sort of athletic team before? (Hockey, Soccer, Basketball, etc)

I didn't think so.

Never.  What's it like?

[JD]

Never.  What's it like?

Mom wouldn't sign the permission slip huh?  Or is it because you aren't black?

[wadesworld]

Never.  What's it like?

Mom wouldn't sign the permission slip huh?  Or is it because you aren't black?

That's the one!

[MU82]

Yeah, because the black dudes won all the spots on the hockey team.

[JD]

Yeah, because the black dudes won all the spots on the hockey team.

Nyjer Morgan would agree