Notre Dame

[dw3dw3dw3]

Notre Dame seems to be the lone wild card in this whole mess for the Big East. They obviously hold all the cards and they know it.  I'm not sure if they have proposed it, but if they align their football starship to the conference they would be able to run the league. Dictate the number of games played, divisions, etc.. to their liking. IMO, this is the only thing that saves the Big East and its BCS bid. Pay teams their true market value as a portion of the TV contract. Meaning ND gets 50% or so (guessing their value) and everyone splits the rest on their pull for basketball and football. The Northeast remains Big East and Notre Dame basically runs the show and gets a BCS bid every year. Basketball remains the same minus cuse/pitt. Is there too much pride at each of the member schools to make this happen? As previously shown the basketball schools only pull 1-2 million from the current TV contract. At minimum that could remain in-tact with a new TV contract featuring ND.  I just don't think that 1-2 million/national exposure would be available with with a basketball only league. The new 14 team league will have a shot to be one of the top 3 conferences every year. I know it sets a bad precedence to give one school so much power, but it might be worth it and MU could kick their A** in basketball every year to make us feel better.

Am I just wishfully thinking or is there a chance this could happen?

[bilsu]

no chance

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I was thinking somewhere along those lines.  I have a lot of ND alumni friends here in Connecticut as there seems to be a ton of ND alumni out this way.  ND obviously wants its "non-football sports" to be in a strong conference so what's to preclude ND from going to NBC/Comcast (with it's Versus, Universal Sports and Comcast Sports networks) and say we want to be a part of a strong Northeast located conference for everything except football obviously and for it to be strong in other sports they need a functioning stable football conference that only TV money can bring.  Can NBC/Comcast have a Big East football game of the week as our warmup act and can you also show a few more games on your cable networks and throw some basketball on in the winter also?

[dw3dw3dw3]

Hmm... http://twitter.com/#!/andyglockner

[GGGG]

Here is why I doubt this happens:

1. Notre Dame has absolutely no incentive to make it happen.  Why split *any* football revenue with the BE schools.  Outside of possibly West Virginia, there is not a single school left in the league that has any more *football* cache than a typical CUSA school.  They have no need to share if they don't want to.

2. ND knows that its non-football programs will always have a soft spot on which to land.  At worse, they will be with the BE basketball schools.  At best, a conference like the ACC might take them as a non-football member.

They have no incentive to allign themselves with the BE in a football conference.

[Nukem2]

ND has serious delusions about it's status as a FB power.  It would be a middle-of-the-pack FB program in a 4 mega-conference scenario.  That would be an issue for them.  If BE's FB folds, ND's delusipns could become it's worst nightmares........

[g0lden3agle]

Would Notre Dame consider staying independent in football and staying in some sort of "non-football" conference, be it a reincarnated Big East or some differently named conference?  There are a lot of powerful non-football playing Basketball schools that could make it's name for itself as a Basketball powerhouse conference (as we've gone over countless times on other threads).  Notre Dame would fit very well in a conference like that. 

[GGGG]

If that is their best option I am sure they would be willing to be in a non-football conference for their other sports.

[ErickJD08]

ND has serious delusions about it's status as a FB power.  It would be a middle-of-the-pack FB program in a 4 mega-conference scenario.  That would be an issue for them.  If BE's FB folds, ND's delusipns could become it's worst nightmares........

By "FB power", are you referring the actual team or the revenue?  If your old enough, you know is always about the money.  And with that said, ND is a powerhouse.

[GGGG]

ND makes less television money now than every school in the B10, P12 and SEC.  Their issue is that their indentity is tied up in their independence.  Any alum will tell you that it's a point of pride for them.  They will hang on to that as long as they can.

[ErickJD08]

ND makes less television money now than every school in the B10, P12 and SEC.  Their issue is that their indentity is tied up in their independence.  Any alum will tell you that it's a point of pride for them.  They will hang on to that as long as they can.

Sure.  They are independent.  So have 36 schools that make more money than ND.  And 25 or the 36 are coat tailing the gravy train.  They are still a high revenue program. 

And as for independence and pride, I know a ton of alums and it has very little to do with pride.  It is about remaining a national program and joining a conference inherently makes you regional.  Although the record is not indicative, they recruit nationally and end up in the top 10 getting top recruits every year.  If they join the Big 10, it would get harder to get kids from CA, TX, and FL.

[Nukem2]

By "FB power", are you referring the actual team or the revenue?  If your old enough, you know is always about the money.  And with that said, ND is a powerhouse.

B FB power, I mean on the field.  ND has been living on it's past and it helps non-athltic fund raising.  Moving into a conference may well enhance FB revenue, but may well lead to a decline in other fundi raising over the long haul if FB gets stuck in the middle or lwer echelons off a BCS FB conference.

[GGGG]

Well, maybe ND should try to be a little more regional then since there are multiple schools in their region that have more talent, and more on-field success, then they have had recently.  (And Wisconsin has more players from Florida on its roster than ND does.)

[ErickJD08]

Well, maybe ND should try to be a little more regional then since there are multiple schools in their region that have more talent, and more on-field success, then they have had recently.  (And Wisconsin has more players from Florida on its roster than ND does.)

Oh goodness... OK.  Recruiting rankings are overrated but it is the only way to really objectively discuss "talent" level.  The simple fact that there are more kids from FL doesn't mean there is more talent. 

Rivals...
ND
2011 - #10
2010 - #14
2009 - #21
2008 - #2
2007 - #8

Top 2 BIG 10 teams that year.

2011 - OSU -#11; Nebraska - #15
2010 - PSU - #12; Michigan - #20
2009 - OSU - #3; Michigan #8
2008 - OSU - #4; Michigan - #10
2007- Michigan - #12; OSU - #15

It's clear that ND recruits arguably better (according to one of the major recruiting groups) than every other Big 10 team.  I think it should be noted that the last 5-6 years is the worst period in ND's football history and they still out recruit OSU (who was playing for a NC championship every year).  Just think what would happen if ND was really good.  I think that is the gamble ND is making not joining.  If they right the ship (which I think they will), they will make a ton of ca$h.  So I think trying to stay a national program is in their interest. 

[GGGG]

Heh...nothing is more overated than Big Ten basketball and Notre Dame football recruiting classes.  Number of players drafted in the last ten NFL drafts:

Notre Dame: 44

Ohio State: 67
Michigan: 45
Wisconsin: 50
Iowa: 44

[ErickJD08]

Heh...nothing is more overated than Big Ten basketball and Notre Dame football recruiting classes.  Number of players drafted in the last ten NFL drafts:

Notre Dame: 44

Ohio State: 67
Michigan: 45
Wisconsin: 50
Iowa: 44

Eh... whateves.  We can talk about drafts and all that stuff.  Draft is also overrated because many of those players are not even on a team in a couple of years.  If you are on a good team, there is a higher likelihood that you will be drafted too.  If a team is ranking well in the recruiting services, success and draft results are more on player development than recruiting.  That's why I think Roy Williams is overrated as a coach.  And kinda why I think Buzz is a good coach.  We shall see.  I just think if ND joins the Big Ten, it will without a doubt hurt their national presence/recruiting.  So big picture, I think that is why ND is reluctant to join a conference.

[GGGG]

LOL right...those NFL scouts are much worse at evaluating talent than rating services are.

[MUMac]

LOL right...those NFL scouts are much worse at evaluating talent than rating services are.

You switched your argument from recruiting to drafting.  ND recruits well.  It can be argued they do not develop that talent.   

[GGGG]

No I never switched anything.  Erick was the one that brought up recruiting.  I never mentioned it.  My argument from the beginning was that their independent status had nothing to do with the "quality" of their (overated) recruiting classes.  Programs that are within their same geographical area recruit better than they do.

[brewcity77]

No I never switched anything.  Erick was the one that brought up recruiting.  I never mentioned it.  My argument from the beginning was that their independent status had nothing to do with the "quality" of their (overated) recruiting classes.  Programs that are within their same geographical area recruit better than they do.

While ND has made a lot of mistakes over the years, they do still have the largest footprint in college football. Their NBC contract puts them in TVs from Indiana to New York to Florida to Texas to California to Washington and everywhere in between.

I'll be the first to say they've failed massively at utilizing that over the past 10 or so years, but the footprint is still there.

[Oregon Warrior]

No I never switched anything.  Erick was the one that brought up recruiting.  I never mentioned it.  My argument from the beginning was that their independent status had nothing to do with the "quality" of their (overated) recruiting classes.  Programs that are within their same geographical area recruit better than they do.

You clearly have something against ND. Their independent status has everything to do with how well they recruit nationally. It's what they sell to every recruit.

[GGGG]

You clearly have something against ND. Their independent status has everything to do with how well they recruit nationally. It's what they sell to every recruit.

I understand that is what they sell to every recruit.  I just stated that they could recruit just as well if they were in a conference, and used schools within their very region to show that.  Regardless, their independent status is important to them for a couple of reasons, which is why they forego the $$ that a conference affiliation brings.

While ND has made a lot of mistakes over the years, they do still have the largest footprint in college football. Their NBC contract puts them in TVs from Indiana to New York to Florida to Texas to California to Washington and everywhere in between.

I'll be the first to say they've failed massively at utilizing that over the past 10 or so years, but the footprint is still there.

That doesn't mean what it used to.  Every major college football team can be seen coast to coast for their most important games these days.  For instance, if I wanted to I could probably catch all of Alabama's games, except for the weaker non-conference games to start the season.

[brewcity77]

I get that, but what about all of Washington State's games, or North Carolina, Texas A&M, Boston College...ND has an advantage on many programs. Maybe not the top tier schools, but certainly they are easier to watch than anyone outside the perennial top ten. And you don't need cable or dish to watch them. Anyone who has a TV has NBC.

The importance of their footprint isn't what it once was, but it's still a solid selling point. Of course, that said, it should be near-inexcusable when a coach can't at least keep them in the 10-25 range of the rankings. The only logical excuse is academics.

[MUMac]

No I never switched anything.  Erick was the one that brought up recruiting.  I never mentioned it.  My argument from the beginning was that their independent status had nothing to do with the "quality" of their (overated) recruiting classes.  Programs that are within their same geographical area recruit better than they do.

Well, maybe ND should try to be a little more regional then since there are multiple schools in their region that have more talent, and more on-field success, then they have had recently.  (And Wisconsin has more players from Florida on its roster than ND does.)

Heh...nothing is more overated than Big Ten basketball and Notre Dame football recruiting classes.  Number of players drafted in the last ten NFL drafts:

Notre Dame: 44

Ohio State: 67
Michigan: 45
Wisconsin: 50
Iowa: 44

No, that is a switch. 

[GGGG]

In my original post I said "talent."  (Never referred to recruiting at all.)  Erick defined "talent" by recruiting rankings.  I believe that ND's recruiting rankings are over-stated so I defined "talent" as those players who are drafted by the NFL.

Let me use an example.  ND's 2007 recruiting class was a consensus top 10 class.  (This is the Jimmy Clausen class.)  Yet Clausen was the only player drafted out of this class - so far.  There were numerous four and five star players who weren't even drafted.

Erick believes that this is a lack of player development by the coaching staff - I believe that UND does to football prospects what the likes of Duke do to basketball prospects.  Inflate their rankings.