Chicago Tribune painting unflattering picture of MU...

[mu03eng]

Couple of things to note:
-Unless I missed something the February incident is a student athlete, we don't know that it's a basketball player.  Some people seem to be assuming without evidence

-I'm shocked by the lack of castigation on the board for the university.  Even if you believe the story is 100% made-up by the woman, that in no way mitigates MU's apparent lack of institutional control around handling potential sex crimes.  How can you be in violation of a state law for 10 years and excuse that?  

-Again, even if you assume that the woman's story is inaccurate regarding how the situation was handled the potential crime never made it to MPD and it absolutely should have, and quickly.  That transgression alone tells me that the head of DPS and Dr. Quade should suffer some punishment at a minimum and depending on the level of truth to the accuser's story should likely be fired.

Not a single person in the still is without fault, we should act on that fault.  A lot of people want to throw stones at the places at fault that aren't dear to their heart.  Someone brought up the ND story and it is the same situation and this absolutely should have been reported to MPD immediately if not only because its the law but it avoids the appearance of a cover-up.

[warthog-driver]

DING DING DING DING.  That's exactly where I'm coming from.  Just because you had sex with someone before doesn't mean the toll booth is open for all future actions.  It doesn't even mean it's open that day if you start down that path and she has second thoughts.  She says no, that's the end of it.

Many times I have launched in an A-10 with a full bag of gas and a load of snake and nape. Not always have I had the privilege of expending that ordnance. Nothing is more hateful, especially when I am primed for some hard core combat action. But when its time to withdraw one must do so with dignity, knowing full well that there are many targets and tomorrow is another day.

[MUMac]

Couple of things to note:
-Unless I missed something the February incident is a student athlete, we don't know that it's a basketball player.  Some people seem to be assuming without evidence

-I'm shocked by the lack of castigation on the board for the university.  Even if you believe the story is 100% made-up by the woman, that in no way mitigates MU's apparent lack of institutional control around handling potential sex crimes.  How can you be in violation of a state law for 10 years and excuse that?  

-Again, even if you assume that the woman's story is inaccurate regarding how the situation was handled the potential crime never made it to MPD and it absolutely should have, and quickly.  That transgression alone tells me that the head of DPS and Dr. Quade should suffer some punishment at a minimum and depending on the level of truth to the accuser's story should likely be fired.

Not a single person in the still is without fault, we should act on that fault.  A lot of people want to throw stones at the places at fault that aren't dear to their heart.  Someone brought up the ND story and it is the same situation and this absolutely should have been reported to MPD immediately if not only because its the law but it avoids the appearance of a cover-up.

+1

[🏀]

Many times I have launched in an A-10 with a full bag of gas and a load of snake and nape. Not always have I had the privilege of expending that ordnance. Nothing is more hateful, especially when I am primed for some hard core combat action. But when its time to withdraw one must do so with dignity, knowing full well that there are many targets and tomorrow is another day.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts.... I think?

[MUMac]

DING DING DING DING.  That's exactly where I'm coming from.  Just because you had sex with someone before doesn't mean the toll booth is open for all future actions.  It doesn't even mean it's open that day if you start down that path and she has second thoughts.  She says no, that's the end of it.

While I agree with the position you stated above, the danger is that you have taken her comments to the paper as 100% verifiably correct.  That is where where you are going off track.  No one, and I repeat no one , on this board can state that her position is 100% accurate OR that her position is completely false.

There are many facts missing.  Yet, you have jumped to the conclussion that the athlete is guilty, and infact so is the entire program.  That is just as bad, if not moreso as you extrapolate, as the blaming of the victim that you protested earlier.

[icheights]

This entire situation is disgusting and at the very least should have been investigated by the police.  That this poor woman was not given a fair shot at justice because the university decided not to obey state laws makes me sick.  Plain and simple marquette won here because there is no way to ever know the truth.  These are the same people who go to church every Sunday and it makes me sick...My thoughts and prayers go out to that woman.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

OK...let's see here...  People on this board have blamed:

**The Chicago Tribune
**The victim (with armchair psychologists claiming that she must be mentally ill)
**The head coaches of Loyola and DePaul
**Chicos for bashing MU basketball
**MPD because they "had to have known" what was going on

And my absolute favorite is Ners acting like a doctor and discussing his theories of vaginal scarring.   

However, I am going to reiterate what only a couple of you have seemed to catch:  MARQUETTE VIOLATED STATE LAW, AND HAS DONE SO REPEATEDLY!!  Also, it is interesting that no one is blaming the alledged perpetrator.  (I don't think anyone should, but hell, if we can blame the victim and Oliver Purnell, we might as well right???)

Seriously people, take off your blue and gold goggles and use that MU education of yours to at least view this with some objectivity.

+1

MU and the student athlete messed up... To pretend otherwise is naive.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I'd like to know why you're all rushing to this accuser's defense? Why is she so believable and the player is not? It sounds like a lot of ridiculous "he said, she said to me." And amongst college kids. Seems to me that all legal entities involved agreed.

Frankly, I'm glad our basketball program is protecting our basketball players from shady accusations. Would you rather they be thrown to the wolves?

[Skatastrophy]

That is what you get when you try to cover things up.  We got upto 6 players out of 14 involved in extra curricular activites. October (4),  February (2) and Blue orange fight. I feel sorry for the 8 plus innocent players that are being hurt by the cover up. Hell, I feel sorry for the alumni(including me) being embarassed by this cover up. Can I get my Blue and Gold Fund donation back?

FTFY

[DJO's Pump Fake]

I just wish people in today's world would remember that you are INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY.

No charges, no guilty verdict, everyone is innocent until proven otherwise.

But, everyone jumps off the deep end anyway

[Ari Gold]

I totally agree with this. I have a very hard time believing she dismissed a possible rape and told her to pray about it. She was one of the lead people who got the club Lacrosse team suspended for some pretty minor hazing a few years back.

Gonna go ahead and throw this out there: Basketball players = black kids from troubled environments who need this as a way out... Lacrosse = overprivileged white private school kids.

Just a thought
--
Hell will get a lil frosty when I say this: Sultan makes some solid points. At this point we can't confirm the validity of this girl's story that the alleged rape did or didnt take place. Even though Ners is trying to be David Caruso, shitty glasses terrible logic and all. But what can be determined, is that MU violated the law and has violated the law multiple times over the past 10 years.

[MUfan12]

Gonna go ahead and throw this out there: Basketball players = black kids from troubled environments who need this as a way out... Lacrosse = overprivileged white private school kids.

Just a thought

So we're ruling out Frozena? Good point, hadn't thought of it from that angle.

[bilsu]

I just wish people in today's world would remember that you are INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY.

No charges, no guilty verdict, everyone is innocent until proven otherwise.

But, everyone jumps off the deep end anyway

That is the legal defination. However, we all know in some cases innocent people go to jail and guilty people do not. OJ was found not guilty, but most people think he was guilty.

[StillAWarrior]

I'd like to know why you're all rushing to this accuser's defense? Why is she so believable and the player is not? It sounds like a lot of ridiculous "he said, she said to me." And amongst college kids. Seems to me that all legal entities involved agreed.

Frankly, I'm glad our basketball program is protecting our basketball players from shady accusations. Would you rather they be thrown to the wolves?

I'd rather that Marquette follow the law and report the allegations to the appropriate authorities which likely will lead to an investigation.  I have no idea where that investigation would have led.  It might have led to serious trouble for a Marquette athlete; it might have led to complete exoneration.  I think either result would be preferable to what we've got now.

[Hards Alumni]

That is the legal defination. However, we all know in some cases innocent people go to jail and guilty people do not. OJ was found not guilty, but most people think he was guilty.

If you want to do legal definitions, OJ was acquitted, not found not guilty.

[tower912]

I know what my initial reaction was when I read the young woman's account.     I know I can be an insensitive jerk, so I decided to solicit the opinion of some of the women in my life. I have since chatted about this with my wife, a trusted female co-worker, and my 16 year old daughter, without expressing my opinion.     Of that small sample size, none consider this a crime.    Strictly off of the female's version of the story.   They actually agree with the two public safety officer's who told her that they weren't sure this was a crime.     I have no idea about names or details of the other event.    But IMO, this one is a non-starter.  

[NavinRJohnson]

That's it, rip down the woman....it's usually their fault.  Hell, I'll bet she asked for it.  


Because we all know a woman never changes her mind and could very easily tell someone to stop in the middle of it.  Considering your short span of a few seconds, I doubt that happens to you often but for those that last more than a few it's more than possible.  But that's right, she's unstable.   

Man, you are something else. Whether it be Buzz Williams, DPS, or the Administration, you heave demonstrated a clear and continued pattern of taking anyone else at their word, and give the benefit of the doubt to the 'wronged' party, while completely discounting MU's version of things. Did MU handle this poorly? Yes, I think she probably did. Do I believe this gal's version of things is 100% accurate?   No, I don't, any more than I believe its 100% false. It seems you love to put your tin foil hat one wherever MU is concerned.

[mugrad99]

I'd rather that Marquette follow the law and report the allegations to the appropriate authorities which likely will lead to an investigation.  I have no idea where that investigation would have led.  It might have led to serious trouble for a Marquette athlete; it might have led to complete exoneration.  I think either result would be preferable to what we've got now.

+1000000000

In terms of Chico's Toll Booth analogy. What if you are halfway through the toll booth, and you don't hear the toll booth attendant say stop...since you are too busy thinking about baseball, because you do not want to lose all of your quarters you are about to throw into the receptacle?   (By no means do I mean to make light of this specific instance)

[Golden Avalanche]

Thoughts:

- I'm not surprised the University has flouted rules for the last 10 years. I'm surprised they went so public with that knowledge in this story.

- Like it or not, the alleged victim in this case is in a tough spot due to false claims of assault in the past from other people. People can claim not to be biased but when many of these claims turn out to be made under false pretenses, and you add in the caveat that she was previously engaged in sex with this person prior to the alleged incident, its not so crazy to think her claims were met with skepticism.

- Are we certain the February incident was a basketball player? I'm guessing its 90% but is it definite?

- Also, is this person in the February incident one of the four from the October harassment? If so, then we have a problem.

- Finally, on the 27th of February the Warriors dismantled PC. Any thoughts whether the player (if basketball) was on a high and played well or on a down and played poorly?

[Lennys Tap]

  At some point you begin to ask WTF is going on.

For you that point was April 2008. Since then, everything on the court (game preparation, game strategy, alleged "choking" by coaches and players, jucos, "non-traditionals", etc.) and off the court (Maymon, Newbill, allegations against athletes, squirmy stuff that you allegedly hear, etc.) has resulted in you ripping the the program/university. Nobody, and that includes admitted arch-enemies like Badgermaniac, has gone after MU like you. You accuse others of sticking their heads in the sand and looking at these issues through blue and gold covered glasses even as you consistently interpret them in whatever way proves most damaging to Marquette. Your attempts at potraying yourself as a loyal, concerned and fair minded fan are beyond laughable. So much of your ego is invested in hopes of failure for the  current regime that you've become the ultimate MU hater.

[StillAWarrior]

I just wish people in today's world would remember that you are INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY.

No charges, no guilty verdict, everyone is innocent until proven otherwise.

But, everyone jumps off the deep end anyway

There's a lot of truth to what you're saying, but as bilsu pointed out, the presumption of innocence relates to whether someone is convicted and punished in a court of law...not the court of public opinion.


I have no idea whether a "Marquette athlete" raped this girl, and I'm not going to assume either way.  The allegation is troubling, but that's it.  What I do know, however, is that Marquette's illegal failure to report the allegation may have precluded an appropriate investigation.  And that pisses me off.  When there is a cover up (or the appearance of one), even if not by the accused, a lot of people are going to assume the worst (or "jump off the deep end" as you call it).  Marquette's failure in this regard isn't fair to the accuser or to the accused.

[Rubie Q]

I'd rather that Marquette follow the law and report the allegations to the appropriate authorities which likely will lead to an investigation.  I have no idea where that investigation would have led.  It might have led to serious trouble for a Marquette athlete; it might have led to complete exoneration.  I think either result would be preferable to what we've got now.

Unless I'm missing something, there *WAS* an investigation by the authorities, and that investigation led to the DA not issuing charges.

Does the University deserve criticism for not reporting this to the police sooner? Sure. Did the delay in reporting it have any impact on the DA's decision not to issue charges? I don't think so.

[StillAWarrior]

Unless I'm missing something, there *WAS* an investigation by the authorities, and that investigation led to the DA not issuing charges.

Does the University deserve criticism for not reporting this to the police sooner? Sure. Did the delay in reporting it have any impact on the DA's decision not to issue charges? I don't think so.

But I'm fairly sure that I've read that the DA has been critical of Marquette and has suggested that the delay might have influenced the decision to not bring charges.

[StillAWarrior]

I know what my initial reaction was when I read the young woman's account.     I know I can be an insensitive jerk, so I decided to solicit the opinion of some of the women in my life. I have since chatted about this with my wife, a trusted female co-worker, and my 16 year old daughter, without expressing my opinion.     Of that small sample size, none consider this a crime.    Strictly off of the female's version of the story.   They actually agree with the two public safety officer's who told her that they weren't sure this was a crime.     I have no idea about names or details of the other event.    But IMO, this one is a non-starter.  

For the record, they're all wrong.  If things occurred as she described them, a crime was committed.  Whether or not the prosecutor could secure a conviction (or would even bring charges) is an entirely different question.  From an evidentiary standpoint, the facts described by the accuser would present a very difficult case (i.e., the jury would have a hard time deciding who was telling the truth which typically results in an acquittal).  But just because a jury might not convict doesn't mean that the facts, as alleged, don't describe a crime.

That said, I have no idea if a crime was committed; and I don't intend to take a position on that because I'm sure I'm never going to have enough information to do so.

[Rubie Q]

But I'm fairly sure that I've read that the DA has been critical of Marquette and has suggested that the delay might have influenced the decision to not bring charges.

He did make a statement to that effect, which reeked of grandstanding at the time and looks even worse now, in my opinion, because of the evidence that the Tribune says was collected during the investigation.  The DA had a medical report and multiple statements from the woman, which he said had been consistent throughout. And yet he didn't file charges.

Like I said: I have no problem with the University being criticized here (for not following the law, etc), but I don't think it's fair to pin the lack-of-prosecution on Marquette.