Futbol Talk

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Gonna be tough without Vidal, but at the same time Colombia hasn't played well since the first half of the Paraguay game. I'm really happy Chile won. Have a lot of Chilean friends who are great people (not to say that my Mexican friends arent) and I really didn't want to deal with the Mexico supporters at Soldier Field, especially since I'm gonna be rocking Colombia gear. Should be a fun one.

[brewcity77]

Gonna be tough without Vidal, but at the same time Colombia hasn't played well since the first half of the Paraguay game. I'm really happy Chile won. Have a lot of Chilean friends who are great people (not to say that my Mexican friends arent) and I really didn't want to deal with the Mexico supporters at Soldier Field, especially since I'm gonna be rocking Colombia gear. Should be a fun one.

Can't say as I blame you...the one time I did I was pleasantly surprised by how civil the Mexican supporters in our section were (2007 Gold Cup Final) especially after the USA comeback win, but many of my friends did not have the same (mostly) cordial experience. I think their fans have become more brash and aggressive in the years since.

[Henry Sugar]

http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/2016/06/21/usa-vs-argentina-euro-recaps-6-20/

USA preview and then some recaps of teams in the Euros that have played three games.

[jesmu84]

This lineup is awful. And plays to zero cohesive strategy.

Not surprisingly, it's exactly the lineup I expected Klins to go with.

[GGGG]

God this Fox studio bunch is annoying. ESPN Euro coverage is so much better.

[brewcity77]

And the USA lineup takes the field...

[Lionel Messi]

Proa a mi grandeza


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/trYIyfctlnA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/trYIyfctlnA</a>

[Lionel Messi]

Colombia, que están al lado. Trate de no matar a tus jugadores, después le golpearon.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Colombia, que están al lado. Trate de no matar a tus jugadores, después le golpearon.

Who would have thought Messi speaks such poor Spanish.

[MU82]

Wow ... what an arse-whuppin'!!

That's like 100-0 in a real sport!

[StillAWarrior]

Yeah, I watched about 1/2 of the game (most of the first half and about 10 minutes of the second) and that game was an arse-whoopin' even when it was still 1-0.  I don't watch all that much soccer, but I don't remember watching a game that seemed quite that one-sided.  They controlled the ball and passed it around for minutes at a time.  Then the USA would get the ball, make a frantic pass or two, and then turn it over.  It was like men playing with boys.

[tower912]

Well, that sucked. 

[Henry Sugar]

Argentina pitched a perfect game last night. The only area where they weren't better than average was on shot quantity, which is completely unnecessary when you have 65% shot quality and 57% finishing. Please excuse the typo in the pic.

[MU82]

I didn't watch the game because I was too busy poking myself in the eyes with a sharp instrument (something I consider more enjoyable than watching soccer).

But I believe I did see on SportsCenter that the U.S. managed zero shots the entire game.

Zero.

Argentina didn't even need a freakin' goalie to win this game. That's amazing.

Does that happen often in soccer, especially in the semifinals of a big tournament (meaning these should be four of the world's best teams)? Seriously, I don't follow soccer and I don't know the answer, so I'm asking the more "futbol-enlightened" if this is relatively common or not.

[Henry Sugar]

I didn't watch the game because I was too busy poking myself in the eyes with a sharp instrument (something I consider more enjoyable than watching soccer).

But I believe I did see on SportsCenter that the U.S. managed zero shots the entire game.

Zero.

Argentina didn't even need a freakin' goalie to win this game. That's amazing.

Does that happen often in soccer, especially in the semifinals of a big tournament (meaning these should be four of the world's best teams)? Seriously, I don't follow soccer and I don't know the answer, so I'm asking the more "futbol-enlightened" if this is relatively common or not.

I have ~800 games worth of data from MLS and these two tournaments. This is the first time I've seen a team record zero shots.

[mu03eng]

I didn't watch the game because I was too busy poking myself in the eyes with a sharp instrument (something I consider more enjoyable than watching soccer).

But I believe I did see on SportsCenter that the U.S. managed zero shots the entire game.

Zero.

Argentina didn't even need a freakin' goalie to win this game. That's amazing.

Does that happen often in soccer, especially in the semifinals of a big tournament (meaning these should be four of the world's best teams)? Seriously, I don't follow soccer and I don't know the answer, so I'm asking the more "futbol-enlightened" if this is relatively common or not.

Extremely rare.

Most glaring issue with the team is how unprepared they were from a mental speed of the game standpoint. This should be one of the things that is wheelhouse for Klinsman to be able to instruct on though perhaps the argument that he was natural versus learned making him a poor teacher makes sense. You could almost literally see the American players thinking before everything they did, and before they could do anything an Argentina player was on top of them.

MLS is what it is, but I do agree with Klinsman, it just isn't the place to develop national team players (though he started 6 of them last night).

Also, (figuratively) when can we take Wondo out back and shoot him? He was directly responsible for the first two goals either by a lack of awareness, lazy passing or fouling in the wrong position. The only thing the guy has proven is that it's more than sitter goals that he "Wondos"

[Golden Avalanche]

Argentina needed that game more than the Americans. 25 years without a trophy, and the last 10 of those with Messi in the fold, is an ever tightening noose they've felt acutely in failing last year against Chile and failing in 2014 against the Germans.

The "shifting the paradigm" narrative for the Americans is perfectly fine froth for the simpletons. And, to be truthful, just having the conversations no matter how snarky or giggly they are within those who never watch the sport shows that its place has moved in the zeitgeist.

To be truthful, the Americans had already accomplished what they wanted prior to last night's game. Performing well in a knockout round is not a strong suit for the program and to do so against Ecuador (off the back of an uninspired World Cup qualifying campaign to this point) represented a step forward. And if they end up winning Saturday night, it will be met with begrudging respect now but in the future will be seen as a crucial step in development.

[JWags85]

MLS is what it is, but I do agree with Klinsman, it just isn't the place to develop national team players (though he started 6 of them last night).

Also, (figuratively) when can we take Wondo out back and shoot him? He was directly responsible for the first two goals either by a lack of awareness, lazy passing or fouling in the wrong position. The only thing the guy has proven is that it's more than sitter goals that he "Wondos"

I'd love to know what blackmail Wondo has on JK.  Cause seriously.  Just when the US is rolling, sentiment is positive...JK rolls out both Wondo and Beckerman in the starting XI, woof.

Also, I'm sure some of it is coincidental and JK playing him out of position for a long time didn't help, but Bradley's aggressive development seemingly stalled once he got to Toronto.

[brewcity77]

Last night was the worst performance I've ever seen from a USA team on home soil. I get that we were supposed to lose. My prediction was 3-0, so I'm not at all shocked by it. But for me, it was the way we lost that was gutting.

First, the lineup changes were predictable and problematic. Beckerman and Wondolowski signaled intent to park the bus. While I'm not a fan of that strategy, it can work if you have wingers who can quickly institute a counterattack. The issue is that the other replacement, Zusi, doesn't have the type of pace to launch counters and Wondo doesn't have the ability to create separation and provide a viable target.

Our plan was defeated from the outset, not least of which because Argentina managed to score inside of 3 minutes. Because of the players deployed, we were not able to mount any significant threat to Argentina. We didn't even seem to try. The second half subs of Pulisic and Nagbe were too little, too late. I want to like this team, I want to see progress, and while there's some, it's certainly not enough.

Brooks, Wood, Johnson, Yedlin, and Cameron were the highlights of the tournament in that you can see progress. However so many others left us wanting. Jones temper hasn't changed. Ever since the failed Bradley at 10 experiment, his play has declined and trying to pair him with Jones or Beckerman back at the 6 hasn't had any positive improvement. I hate seeing Bradley moving into his prime while his play at the international level declines. Dempsey still has quality but is getting long in the tooth, Zardes and Bedoya have merits but aren't complete players, and Guzan while good at times is too inconsistent to be considered on par with the keepers we've had over the past 15 years.

I just...ugh. No shots? Not just no shots on goal, but none period? Not even one effort? So much for attacking Argentina, after that I would have settled for giving them at least one dirty look.

Many will look back and call this tournament a success, just like World Cup 2014. But in reality, it's just the status quo. We reached the knockouts in 2014 and lost to the first significant challenger we faced, just like we have in 4 of the past 6 World Cups. And in Copa, we beat the teams we were supposed to beat, lost to the teams we were supposed to lose to, and sprung one minor upset of Ecuador. Not a bad tournament, but certainly not a clear step forward.

Last night was the most frustrating match I've watched. It showed the clear gulf between us and the true football elite. I didn't really think we'd win, but it galls me to see a USA team so gutless, so scared, and so beaten before the first kick at home.

That for me was the reason Klinsmann should be gone. Because we are told "achieving X means we are successful" and when we do, we should be happy. We escaped the Group of Death in 2014 and made the semis this year. Those were his benchmarks, and because of that we're a success? Well, we also failed to qualify for the Confederations or the Olympics, both goals he said needed to be achieved. I'm not a fan of placing a glass ceiling on our accomplishments. He can call it realism all he likes and act like American soccer fans simply don't understand, but I do understand that we are no better off than we were when he took the job in 2011, and arguably worse.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

A real embarrassment to watch. The stunned looks on the fans was all you needed to see. Klinsman's team continuously gave up the ball with unforced errors the few times they even had possession. No shots on goal?  These guys looked like a JV team out on the pitch. No one can take them seriously after this sub par effort.

[77ncaachamps]

Yedlin showed progress?!

He sucked the whole Copa.

[Henry Sugar]

I thought this was a really good read about youth development. It's insightful.

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer-articles/tds-qa-with-akron-coach-jared-embick_aid39134

[WarriorInNYC]

Yedlin showed progress?!

He sucked the whole Copa.

Yedlin showed great progress.  Not sure what you were watching.

[Golden Avalanche]

Yedlin showed great progress.  Not sure what you were watching.

Agree. In the group games, his time at Sunderland was clearly shown with a much better understanding of when to advance and when to stay home. Last night, his overlap with Zardes and low ball to the box was the only positive movement I remember in the first half for the USA.

[jesmu84]

To echo a couple comments here, the US's biggest problem against Argentina wasn't the Argentinian attack, it was the stifling, high press by the Argentines. You'd think the US never played a team that pressed them so much. I'll excuse a few forced turnovers (even if they were in the defensive third on almost all the Arg goals), but I have a real problem with the UNFORCED turnovers the US made.

Man of the match for Argentina: Zardes

Good tournament: Brooks, Yedlin, Zardes, Wood (maybe Cameron, Fabian)

Bad tournament: Bradley

My player of the tournament: Brooks