Futbol Talk

[jesmu84]

A couple months ago I spent $500 on supporter section tickets for the Gold Cup Final in Chicago. Thankfully, the USA beat Honduras tonight to get there, otherwise that would have been a huge disappointment in regards to money spent.

While I realize it's CONCACAF, Donovan looks to be on his finest form and Klinsmann's style finally seems to be working. 10 straight wins at the international level when the bulk of those are qualifiers and cup matches is impressive no matter who you are. Still too many goals conceded on set pieces, but I'm slowly and cautiously warming to Klinsy.

Ironically, Klinsmann may be sitting in the seats next to you....

[MUfan12]

Looks like there will be PLENTY of tickets available now.

LOL Tri.

[brewcity77]

Looks like there will be PLENTY of tickets available now.

LOL Tri.

Be curious to see attendance. In '07 Soldier was packed, but probably 97% Mexico supporters. Maybe 50% capacity for Panama? Definitely a loss regarding filling seats.

Interesting how less than a year ago Mexico was regarded so highly and the US so negatively. Klinsmann's tactics finally seem to have caught on while Mexico's Golden Generation looks a lot more like Pyrite.

[MU B2002]

Be curious to see attendance. In '07 Soldier was packed, but probably 97% Mexico supporters. Maybe 50% capacity for Panama? Definitely a loss regarding filling seats.

Interesting how less than a year ago Mexico was regarded so highly and the US so negatively. Klinsmann's tactics finally seem to have caught on while Mexico's Golden Generation looks a lot more like Pyrite.

Has El Tri been using their A side? 

[MU Buff]

Not at the Gold Cup, for World Cup qualifying and the Confederations Cup they did though.  They are really struggling to score goals in the last few months.

[brewcity77]

Has El Tri been using their A side? 

Their A side hasn't looked any better. Without a Hex win at the Azteca, arguably worse. Right now, Mexico looks like the 4th or 5th best team in CONCACAF. Meanwhile both the A and B teams for the US look studly. Will that translate come next summer, will they integrate seamlessly, or is it maybe just good fortune of late rather than successful tactics? Who knows. All I know is right now I'd definitely rather be supporting the US than Mexico.

[jesmu84]

Their A side hasn't looked any better. Without a Hex win at the Azteca, arguably worse. Right now, Mexico looks like the 4th or 5th best team in CONCACAF. Meanwhile both the A and B teams for the US look studly. Will that translate come next summer, will they integrate seamlessly, or is it maybe just good fortune of late rather than successful tactics? Who knows. All I know is right now I'd definitely rather be supporting the US than Mexico.

Admittedly, it's been against CONCACAF central America teams... but I totally agree that both A and B sides for the US are playing outstanding right now. Klinsmann has taken his time and done a marvelous job implementing his system. When is the last time you can remember a USA squad being up 2-1, 3-1, etc on ANY opponent and going for more, more, more goals. It's beautiful.

Also, and, it may not be Klinsy, but I'd like to think it is... Have Donovan, EJ, Jozy... basically all of the attackers for the US EVER looked better than in the last couple months? Other than McBride in the WC, I can't think of many other times.

I'm really hoping this all translates to 2014..

[brewcity77]

I can't remember ever having the entire offense in sync like it is now. Vander, Dempsey, Johnson, Jozy, Bedoya, pretty much everyone looks comfortable and productive. Personally, I always thought the hire of Klinsmann was too ambitious. Not that he was too big, but simply that we weren't ready for a coach that wanted to play the aggressive style that the Germans have been playing the past few years. I felt an overseas hire was fine, but that someone like Lippi, who based his tactics on the back line, was a better fit. I'm amazed with what I've seen these past few months.

Again, it's mostly B-side friendlies and CONCACAF opponents, but this streak is impressive against anyone. If they can translate this type of play to the World Cup, this team could really be poised to do some damage. Of course, so much depends on the draw...

[setyoursightsnorth]

Again, it's mostly B-side friendlies and CONCACAF opponents, but this streak is impressive against anyone. If they can translate this type of play to the World Cup, this team could really be poised to do some damage. Of course, so much depends on the draw...

No it's not. A 10 game winning streak against minnows like Honduras, Belize, and Cuba isn't impressive at all. The USA will never do damage at the World Cup. It's laughable. Of course they'll look good when the only decent team they ever have to play is Mexico.

[GGGG]

No it's not. A 10 game winning streak against minnows like Honduras, Belize, and Cuba isn't impressive at all. The USA will never do damage at the World Cup. It's laughable. Of course they'll look good when the only decent team they ever have to play is Mexico.

Never??  A little strong don't you think?

[Golden Avalanche]

I wrote it in February. I wrote it in June. I'll write it now. And, I'll write it in September:

Klinsy is fine. He's playing around. And has been since the beginning. He knows it's a virtual lock to qualify. Everything he does is with the idea of seeing what they're capable of in Brazil for those first three games.

I'm still not sure why some were pissing their pants.

[chren21]

Can't wait to be in soldiers on Sunday!

[brewcity77]

No it's not. A 10 game winning streak against minnows like Honduras, Belize, and Cuba isn't impressive at all. The USA will never do damage at the World Cup. It's laughable. Of course they'll look good when the only decent team they ever have to play is Mexico.

34-8. That's the goal differential. They aren't squeaking by, they are crushing teams. That also included a win over Germany. Maybe not their A squad, but Germany's B side is still better than most of the world.

In the past, these were games we won 1-0 or 2-0. Now we're seeing 3.4 gpg on average. And the games we aren't crushing we are still winning. At any competitive level 10 consecutive without a draw is impressive, even against Belize and Guatemala. I still feel the next benchmark game is at Costa Rica, where we have never won and only drawn once (in 1985), but to say that not slipping once in 10 games isn't impressive, well that's just silly.

And making it to the round of 8 and 16 in 2 of the past 3 World Cups is at the very least doing some damage.

[setyoursightsnorth]

34-8. That's the goal differential. They aren't squeaking by, they are crushing teams. That also included a win over Germany. Maybe not their A squad, but Germany's B side is still better than most of the world.

In the past, these were games we won 1-0 or 2-0. Now we're seeing 3.4 gpg on average. And the games we aren't crushing we are still winning. At any competitive level 10 consecutive without a draw is impressive, even against Belize and Guatemala. I still feel the next benchmark game is at Costa Rica, where we have never won and only drawn once (in 1985), but to say that not slipping once in 10 games isn't impressive, well that's just silly.

And making it to the round of 8 and 16 in 2 of the past 3 World Cups is at the very least doing some damage.

A German "B" side is a bit of an understatement. More of like a "C" team if you ask me. The fact that a benchmark of the US team is a game against Costa Rica is a bit tragic. For that to even be considered a big game is silly. If the US had to qualify in any other confederation, they would get out-classed game in and game out.

I know FIFA rankings are flawed, but here is the "competition" you're playing against.

Canada= 88
Mexico= 22
USA=20
Costa Rica=39
Panama=51
Honduras=55
Haiti=69
Jamaica=77
Cuba=82
Trinidad/Tobago=87
Guatemala=93
El Salvador=94

Apart from Mexico, you're playing against Minnows. Anything over a 40 in FIFA ranking is pretty much a garbage team that won't be found in the world cup. So you're basically playing teams that are far weaker than anything you'll ever see in 2014. There is nothing to be extremely happy about or to be gloating about.

[jesmu84]

A German "B" side is a bit of an understatement. More of like a "C" team if you ask me. The fact that a benchmark of the US team is a game against Costa Rica is a bit tragic. For that to even be considered a big game is silly. If the US had to qualify in any other confederation, they would get out-classed game in and game out.

I know FIFA rankings are flawed, but here is the "competition" you're playing against.

Canada= 88
Mexico= 22
USA=20
Costa Rica=39
Panama=51
Honduras=55
Haiti=69
Jamaica=77
Cuba=82
Trinidad/Tobago=87
Guatemala=93
El Salvador=94

Apart from Mexico, you're playing against Minnows. Anything over a 40 in FIFA ranking is pretty much a garbage team that won't be found in the world cup. So you're basically playing teams that are far weaker than anything you'll ever see in 2014. There is nothing to be extremely happy about or to be gloating about.

"you're"? Where are you from? ...terrorist...

[brewcity77]

Apart from Mexico, you're playing against Minnows. Anything over a 40 in FIFA ranking is pretty much a garbage team that won't be found in the world cup. So you're basically playing teams that are far weaker than anything you'll ever see in 2014. There is nothing to be extremely happy about or to be gloating about.

Wow...okay, first of all, you clearly don't know crap if you don't think anyone over 40 in rankings won't be found in the World Cup. In 2010, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, South Africa, and North Korea (#106) were all found in the World Cup. That's the case every four years, where there are numerous outliers. When you include 32 teams, there are going to be a lot of teams that aren't top-40.

Second, you clearly have the European view of CONCACAF. If you think that Spain, France, England, and Germany would come in with their A sides and destroy Costa Rica, Panama, and Honduras on their soil, you are simply mistaken. Those teams have no idea what it's like playing in a stadium where people are throwing bottles and trash at you, where riot cops come out on the field the same time the players do to protect them, and where the turf isn't pristine grass. In addition, the teams are better than you think. CONCACAF teams are lowly rated because they play each other and FIFA's rankings are all slanted towards teams from Europe and South America. If you think the FIFA World Rankings mean anything, you don't have a clue about the sport.

Right now the Ivory Coast is the only African team in the top-20. There are no Asian teams. And somehow, despite putting up a massive quantity of suck on the pitch, Mexico is still ranked 20th, ahead of the US (among others). You really think those are even close to accurate numbers? Don't be stupid. The FIFA rankings aren't worth the bandwidth they are distributed on.

I'll assume that for you, benchmark games have to be against European or South American competition (or I assume Mexico). Since the start of 2012, we are 5-2-2 in those games. Out-classed game in and game out? Hardly. Included in that is an undefeated record away from home with wins over Italy and Mexico (and while it was a Mexico B side, it was also the USA's B side). If you want to use the game at Bosnia-Herzegovina as your benchmark game, fine, but Costa Rica is going to be a lot tougher to win and carries far more meaning.

W - Venezuela (1-0)
W - @ Italy (1-0)
W - Scotland (5-1)
L - Brazil (1-4)
W - @ Mexico (1-0)
D - @ Russia (2-2)
D - @ Mexico (0-0)
L - Belgium (2-4)
W - Germany (4-3)

[77ncaachamps]

Right now the Ivory Coast is the only African team in the top-20. There are no Asian teams. And somehow, despite putting up a massive quantity of suck on the pitch, Mexico is still ranked 20th, ahead of the US (among others). You really think those are even close to accurate numbers? Don't be stupid. The FIFA rankings aren't worth the bandwidth they are distributed on.

It's called, "The Chicharito Effect".

[MUfan12]

It's amazing that people keep bringing up the competition in CONCACAF. What do you want, the region to kick out Belize, Cuba, Guatemala, and replace them with Germany, Brazil, and Argentina?

The US can only play who is on their schedule. And they are destroying these teams, like they should be. If you need to see the progress, look at this same competition 2 years ago. That was nearly a full strength US team that was barely getting by, before being bossed by Mexico in the final.

Will it translate to WC success? We'll see. It is encouraging to see competition for places, and the side playing a more fluid style.

[chren21]

Will anyone be at the Weathermark tavern tomorrow pre game and head to the stadium in the march with the American outlaws?   Always fun.

[setyoursightsnorth]

Wow...okay, first of all, you clearly don't know crap if you don't think anyone over 40 in rankings won't be found in the World Cup. In 2010, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, South Africa, and North Korea (#106) were all found in the World Cup. That's the case every four years, where there are numerous outliers. When you include 32 teams, there are going to be a lot of teams that aren't top-40.

Second, you clearly have the European view of CONCACAF. If you think that Spain, France, England, and Germany would come in with their A sides and destroy Costa Rica, Panama, and Honduras on their soil, you are simply mistaken. Those teams have no idea what it's like playing in a stadium where people are throwing bottles and trash at you, where riot cops come out on the field the same time the players do to protect them, and where the turf isn't pristine grass. In addition, the teams are better than you think. CONCACAF teams are lowly rated because they play each other and FIFA's rankings are all slanted towards teams from Europe and South America. If you think the FIFA World Rankings mean anything, you don't have a clue about the sport.

Right now the Ivory Coast is the only African team in the top-20. There are no Asian teams. And somehow, despite putting up a massive quantity of suck on the pitch, Mexico is still ranked 20th, ahead of the US (among others). You really think those are even close to accurate numbers? Don't be stupid. The FIFA rankings aren't worth the bandwidth they are distributed on.

I'll assume that for you, benchmark games have to be against European or South American competition (or I assume Mexico). Since the start of 2012, we are 5-2-2 in those games. Out-classed game in and game out? Hardly. Included in that is an undefeated record away from home with wins over Italy and Mexico (and while it was a Mexico B side, it was also the USA's B side). If you want to use the game at Bosnia-Herzegovina as your benchmark game, fine, but Costa Rica is going to be a lot tougher to win and carries far more meaning.

W - Venezuela (1-0)
W - @ Italy (1-0)
W - Scotland (5-1)
L - Brazil (1-4)
W - @ Mexico (1-0)
D - @ Russia (2-2)
D - @ Mexico (0-0)
L - Belgium (2-4)
W - Germany (4-3)

I know the FIFA rankings are inaccurate. I've stated that they don't mean much. But you're telling me that a team like Germany, full of players that play in the Bundesliga and La Liga haven't seen fans as rabid as those found in Costa Rica or Mexico? Don't kid yourself. Playing against barca in Camp Nou in front of 90,000 fans is just as demanding, if not the most demanding place to play. Playing against BVB at Dortmund? Good luck. Those that play in Italy or the Premier League, full of racist and lunatic fans desensitized them. The US is made up of mostly MLSers that are lucky to see 10,000 people at a game. I would fully expect European teams, even the mid-level ones like Croatia and Montenegro to waltz through their groups in the Americas if given a chance.

[brewcity77]

Comparing club and international atmospheres isn't the same, but if you are going to try, you are better off mentioning away dates at Galatasaray or even Roma, where the crowd can not only be loud but legitimately threatening to opposing players and fans. I believe it was Dempsey who said in an interview that European players would ask him how the US can struggle in those away dates and he said "they simply don't understand". It's simply a different type of atmosphere. The travel is different, often the altitude, and the fans aren't seeing these games week in and week out (like a club team) but instead spend a year or more waiting for those games. It's just a different world than any European venue offers.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Comparing club and international atmospheres isn't the same, but if you are going to try, you are better off mentioning away dates at Galatasaray or even Roma, where the crowd can not only be loud but legitimately threatening to opposing players and fans. I believe it was Dempsey who said in an interview that European players would ask him how the US can struggle in those away dates and he said "they simply don't understand". It's simply a different type of atmosphere. The travel is different, often the altitude, and the fans aren't seeing these games week in and week out (like a club team) but instead spend a year or more waiting for those games. It's just a different world than any European venue offers.

Don't forget that the hotels suck and the pitches are generally awful.

[tower912]

Panama just packing it in and hoping for  a counterattack goal.    USA looks frustrated.   No space, no angles. 

[brewcity77]

Shea stole Bedoya's goal, but it was earned. Absolutely dominated possession and the run of play. Really felt like the second goal was coming, but just wasn't in the cards. Donovan definitely deserved player of the tournament, and should certainly see his name back in the regular starting lineup come September. Decent performances from the back four throughout, Bedoya, Wondo, and Johnson looked good as well. Disappointing to see Holden succumb to injury again. Has any US player suffered as many setbacks as Stewie has? I get the sense this may have been his last shot.

All in all a good tournament and clearly this team is clicking and starting to play the style Klinsmann was brought in to install. I'm amazed at the strides we've seen in the past year. From some legit concerns about even making the Hex to dominating both qualifying and the Gold Cup with an incredible 11-match win streak to boot. Excited for September's qualifiers and hopefully our first ever win in Costa Rica.

[brewcity77]

Just thought I'd take a stab at a 23-man roster for next summer's World Cup...

Goalkeepers (3): Tim Howard, Brad Guzan, Sean Johnson

Howard and Guzan are guarantees, I went with Johnson over Rimando simply because of age. Johnson is young enough to potentially take over some day, whereas Rimando never will. I could also see Bill Hamid

Defenders (8): Steve Cherundolo, Demarcus Beasley, Geoff Cameron, Omar Gonzalez, Ian Besler, Clarence Goodson, Timmy Chandler, Fabian Johnson

Surprisingly, I'd say that the first 7 names, if healthy, are virtual locks. Of course 'Dolo's health will be key. Donovan's return pushes Johnson to left back. Parkhurst, Castillo, Boca, Evans, Onyewu, Ream, Orozco, and maybe even John Anthony Brooks could all potentially play their way into that last defense spot as well but right now I'd guess are on the outside looking in.

Midfielders (8): Clint Dempsey, Landon Donovan, Michael Bradley, Jermaine Jones, Maurice Edu, Graham Zusi, Alejandro Bedoya, Brek Shea

If healthy, that last spot that Bedoya has could just as easily go to Holden. I could also see that being a central midfielder regardless as this is definitely a bit attack-heavy. Corona and Beckerman just don't seem to be at this level yet, Kljestan and Diskerud haven't impressed enough yet. The first seven names, based on recent picks, all feel pretty solid, this could just as easily go to nine or even ten.

Forwards (4): Jozy Altidore, Herculez Gomez, Eddie Johnson, Chris Wondolowski

Altidore and Gomez seem like locks, and Johnson has been a favorite of Klinsmann for awhile. Wondo had a breakout tournament at the Gold Cup, but most of the damage he did was against weaker opponents. His spot is definitely not firm yet, and could go to someone like Terrence Boyd, Alan Gordon, or possibly even Jack McInerney if he has a big year in Philadelphia. If Wondo didn't make it, I think it'd be more likely we go with 3 forwards and Donovan/Dempsey and just bring another midfielder.

And here's my current starting 11:

Howard

Cherundolo --- Gonzalez --- Cameron --- F. Johnson

Bradley --- Jones

Zusi --- --- --- --- Donovan

Dempsey

Altidore

Edit: Included Fabian Johnson at defense while moving Donovan up to left mid.