Futbol Talk

[jesmu84]

And while this may just be rumors, I've heard that LD may not be too fond of Klinsmann. The problem with not having him is that without him we have virtually no offensive creativity. Guys like Bradley and Dempsey are solid and skilled, but they aren't very creative. Neither will create something out of nothing the way Donovan can. The only other guy that's been in the mix of late to really display any true creativity is Brek Shea. Yesterday Jermaine Jones was playing on the right wing. Jermaine Jones. He is not a winger, he doesn't have the pace, the dribbling skills, or the guile to play out there. Yesterday's formation started to convince me that Klinsmann is a carpenter that doesn't know how to use his tools. Jones is a hammer, that position is one where you need a screwdriver. Eddie Johnson isn't exactly a winger either, yet he's out there. While he's our top goal threat and had a cracker yesterday, Dempsey would be much better suited out there. Just not impressed with California Klinsy.

I'm right there with you on the thinking about creativity. Why, again, does Klins play 3 DMs? Would a 4-1-3-2 with the same back line, Bradley/Jones/Edu at the DM, Gatt/EJ/Shea on left, Dempsey/Diskerud in the middle, Zusi/Gyau/Donovan on right, Altidore/Gomez/Boyd/whoever up top do all that much worse than last night? At least with my suggested lineup, we can attack a bit and maintain possession as those guys can dribble.

[PaintTouches]

 We probably need 16-17 points to assure a place in Brazil, and if we suddenly need to win 5 of our remaining 6 just to avoid a playoff with CONMEBOL it's very possible we could end up missing out altogether.

One clarification, this year's playoff isn't with CONMEBOL but with Oceania. Big difference facing a Chile/Paraguay/Uruguay than New Zealand or Fiji. Agree with everything you said though.

[brewcity77]

What really surprises me right now is that while I do miss the defense Bob Bradley stressed, it's his offense I miss right now. Bob was no offensive genius, but he knew how to maximize the guys he had on the pitch. Right now we are creating nothing from the wings and this team simply isn't good enough to attack through the middle. If guys like LD and Brek aren't going to be available, then we need to have Zusi in there more, we need to shift Dempsey back to the wing and put someone else up top, we'd even be better off playing someone else at RB and moving Chandler up the pitch. Yesterday we marched out Michael Bradley, Jermaine Jones, Danny Williams, Maurice Edu, and Sacha Kljestan. That's 5 holding midfielders, with two of them (Jones and Sacha) deployed as wingers.

I know JK was brought in to shake things up and to turn us more into a team that can compete internationally and not just dominate CONCACAF, but I'm just not seeing it. We've had some very impressive results. The win at the Azteca, beating Italy on their soil, Klinsmann has generally had the results, but he still doesn't seem to grasp how to navigate qualification. He's never had to qualify a team before. His Germany team was the host nation and this is simply a different animal. We skirted through the last round and really need to be more impressive if we want to even make it to Brazil.

[Golden Avalanche]

That's a more positive spin than anything I have seen. 

In terms of Klinsmann or qualification?

Klinsmann realizes the grand vision and clearly so does Gulati since he caved after six years of posturing. Sure Bradley could have sputtered along with the last legs of a previous generation but that likely would have led to a much sharper decline in fortunes than many imagine for 2015 and beyond. Better to let the German take charge, set a foundation, and pass it on for success (see: Germany and Munich).

The US was nine minutes from being in pole position (if a country can be 1/10 of the way through) thanks to the "almighty" El Tri pulling a classic south of the border choke job. It will be a monumental task for multiple countries to find the US in fifth position at the end of the year. Just not going to happen.

[brewcity77]

In terms of Klinsmann or qualification?

Klinsmann realizes the grand vision and clearly so does Gulati since he caved after six years of posturing. Sure Bradley could have sputtered along with the last legs of a previous generation but that likely would have led to a much sharper decline in fortunes than many imagine for 2015 and beyond. Better to let the German take charge, set a foundation, and pass it on for success (see: Germany and Munich).

The US was nine minutes from being in pole position (if a country can be 1/10 of the way through) thanks to the "almighty" El Tri pulling a classic south of the border choke job. It will be a monumental task for multiple countries to find the US in fifth position at the end of the year. Just not going to happen.

The only people who really believe that Klinsmann was responsible for the "foundation" built at Germany and Munich are Jurgen Klinsmann and his friend Mr. Hat. Jogi Lowe was widely regarded as the true mastermind behind the German machine in 2006 when JK was still in control and the general consensus was that passing control from JK to JL was more a formality than anything else. Klinsmann was the popular face of the German team as they hosted, but I don't believe for a second he was really the one pulling the strings.

As far as Munich, Klinsmann was fired for a reason. With a core of Ribery, Robben, Muller, Lahm he still wasn't getting the results. I get the idea behind hiring Klinsmann, and I really hope it works out, but he just doesn't seem to be relating well with the players (see the conflict with Chandler and Donovan's lack of interest in returning to the NT) and the offense hasn't been nearly as impressive as promised. He has a lower winning percentage than Bradley did and we're scoring barely more than a goal per game (29 in 23 games) while being far too leaky at the back (conceded 22 in 23).

I didn't like this hire when it happened, and my biggest fear is that the USA went away from a guy who was admittedly slow and steady for someone who is all flash and no substance. You say it'd be difficult for us to finish 5th, but I don't think it's at all hard to believe we'd be sitting on 2 points through our first 4 games. If that's the case, we probably have to win 5 of our last 6 to get an avoid a playoff and likely 4 of 6 just to play the Oceania qualifier (thanks, pux). I feel confident we'd beat Panama, Honduras, and Jamaica at home. But on the road at Costa Rica and Panama with Mexico at home? We'd need to win at least one of those, and none are remotely close to a guarantee.

[Golden Avalanche]

The only people who really believe that Klinsmann was responsible for the "foundation" built at Germany and Munich are Jurgen Klinsmann and his friend Mr. Hat. Jogi Lowe was widely regarded as the true mastermind behind the German machine in 2006 when JK was still in control and the general consensus was that passing control from JK to JL was more a formality than anything else. Klinsmann was the popular face of the German team as they hosted, but I don't believe for a second he was really the one pulling the strings.

As far as Munich, Klinsmann was fired for a reason. With a core of Ribery, Robben, Muller, Lahm he still wasn't getting the results. I get the idea behind hiring Klinsmann, and I really hope it works out, but he just doesn't seem to be relating well with the players (see the conflict with Chandler and Donovan's lack of interest in returning to the NT) and the offense hasn't been nearly as impressive as promised. He has a lower winning percentage than Bradley did and we're scoring barely more than a goal per game (29 in 23 games) while being far too leaky at the back (conceded 22 in 23).

I didn't like this hire when it happened, and my biggest fear is that the USA went away from a guy who was admittedly slow and steady for someone who is all flash and no substance. You say it'd be difficult for us to finish 5th, but I don't think it's at all hard to believe we'd be sitting on 2 points through our first 4 games. If that's the case, we probably have to win 5 of our last 6 to get an avoid a playoff and likely 4 of 6 just to play the Oceania qualifier (thanks, pux). I feel confident we'd beat Panama, Honduras, and Jamaica at home. But on the road at Costa Rica and Panama with Mexico at home? We'd need to win at least one of those, and none are remotely close to a guarantee.

If you don't recognize that Klinsmann transformed the thinking and playing style of the German foundation you're either ignorant or willfully evasive. Regarding Munich, Klinsmann never managed Robben and Muller wasn't a senior player when Klinsy was at the club so it seems you may not know too much about his less then one season managing Munich.

But, at this point, it's pretty clear you've disliked Klinsmann for as long as you've known who he was/is (probably last few years) so no sense in getting beaten down by it. 

As for qualification, look at Mexico four years ago. Absolute clown show disaster of a start to the hexagonal. What happened then?

[chren21]

How about those Spurs!   Yes I have jumped on their bandwagon cause I love the deuce.

[Golden Avalanche]

Really surprised no one has linked this article. I'm sure it will be gleeful for many to read it. Just the type of momentum you want going into a must win Costa Rica match.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/soccer/story/2013-03-19/jurgen-klinsmann-us-mens-soccer-coach-national-team-usa-american-world-cup-2013

[jesmu84]

Really surprised no one has linked this article. I'm sure it will be gleeful for many to read it. Just the type of momentum you want going into a must win Costa Rica match.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/soccer/story/2013-03-19/jurgen-klinsmann-us-mens-soccer-coach-national-team-usa-american-world-cup-2013

Read that yesterday. Not good. However, I think most of the grumbling comes from two groups: the veterans who are having their roles changed/diminished and the players inexperienced with international/top-level coaching (MLS players). I want to know what someone like Dempsey thinks.

People were having the same conversations about Arena after 2006.

[Henry Sugar]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/sports/soccer/landon-donovan-american-soccers-missing-piece.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all

Good story on Donovan's sabbatical

[GGGG]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/sports/soccer/landon-donovan-american-soccers-missing-piece.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all

Good story on Donovan's sabbatical

I'm surprised this doesn't happen more with soccer players.  Their schedules are ridiculous - especially the ones good enough to play for their national teams.

[Golden Avalanche]

Read that yesterday. Not good. However, I think most of the grumbling comes from two groups: the veterans who are having their roles changed/diminished and the players inexperienced with international/top-level coaching (MLS players). I want to know what someone like Dempsey thinks.

People were having the same conversations about Arena after 2006.

The article never sat right with me and its been condemned by Michael Bradley, whom I consider the leader of this next phase of the program.

I agree it's likely down to an old guard being transitioned out or down to a certain few who have been told they're the next great thing and yet find themselves not catered to in and out of the camps.

[Golden Avalanche]

So, I'm guessing no one is going to stand up here and get all bitchy over Mexico dropping points in Honduras after surrendering a 2-0 lead in the 75th, huh? Anyone? No?

The US hasn't lost in nearly 30 home WC Qualifiers. They win tonight and those petulant "US is doomed" overreactions after one match from last month will be pretty funny reading tomorrow.

Hell, if the other match ends in a draw all of a sudden I'm sure many of you will be right there talking how the US could really be in the driver's seat if they can steal a point from Azteca.

[chren21]

Snow is hilarious...  Wow

[MU B2002]

The snow is ridiculous.  Duece should have 2 goals right now.

[Golden Avalanche]

How's that CONCACAF hex looking now, chicken littles?

[MU B2002]

On to Azteca...

[jesmu84]

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/55674/snow-blind-the-usmnt-overcomes-the-elements-and-costa-rica

and in response to the sporting news story...

prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/23/kyle-martino-says-u-s-natioanl-team-problem-is-more-martin-vasquez-less-jurgen-klinsmann/

[Hards Alumni]

On to Azteca...

You mean Pizzteca?

[MU B2002]

True, It has many names.

[Bocephys]

I have a bad feeling we get smoked tonight.  Snuck away with the 1-0 victory in the snow amongst all of the distractions, but it could all come to a head tonight.

[jesmu84]

I don't get the whining over the snow. You play in the conditions of the home team. Does the USA ask for a replay due to the smog/pollution/altitude/piss-filled arena in Mexico?

[jesmu84]

Loved stealing a point from Azteca. SOTG I think goes to Gonzalez, but the entire backline played very, very well. Besler? ridiculous.

Yes, got away with 2 probable PKs. Especially the Edu foul.

I thought US played best in the last 15 minutes of first half - some solid possession and movement. No real goal scoring chances though.

And, finally, people can hate on Klinnsman all they want, but the man gets results. And props to him for putting in subs that were not "park the bus" types.

[MUfan12]

Loved stealing a point from Azteca. SOTG I think goes to Gonzalez, but the entire backline played very, very well. Besler? ridiculous.

Yes, got away with 2 probable PKs. Especially the Edu foul.

I thought US played best in the last 15 minutes of first half - some solid possession and movement. No real goal scoring chances though.

For a green CB pairing to put in a performance of that quality, in that atmosphere, is nothing short of remarkable. Credit to Beasley for settling in after a difficult start, then fighting through a couple knocks. Edu's foul was a penalty. Hernandez made a meal of the first one.

[Bocephys]

For a green CB pairing to put in a performance of that quality, in that atmosphere, is nothing short of remarkable. Credit to Beasley for settling in after a difficult start, then fighting through a couple knocks. Edu's foul was a penalty. Hernandez made a meal of the first one.

Well I'm glad to be wrong on this one, I thought we'd go down hard.  I agree that Edu's foul was the only penalty where we got lucky.