Aaric Murray

[GGGG]

If Mbakwe or Liam were here, we never sign Gardner to begin with.

[Hards Alumni]

We aren't talking about next year..we are talking about the hypothetical of IF MU lands Aaric Murray...Murray would have to sit out the 2011-2012 season...so DG plays NEXT year...see where he is at.  But in 2012-2013 you would have Otule, Murray, and Gardner (with Otule being a senior, Murray a Junior, Gardner a Junior)...so highly unlikely there are enought minutes for all 3 to play in 2012-2013.  Ask DG to redshirt..and now he is a class behind Murray.

It by no means is idiotic.  And of course we all can see Devante's potential and made great strides this season...I've said many times since watching him in MU Madness that he very likely will be better than Robert Jackson was at MU -(which at the time was ridiculed by many), as has been my Buzz mancrush...Hmmm.

It is absolutely idiotic.  You can't be serious.

[Sharpie]

Even if we do get a big transfer or freshman, buzz will not redshirt either player. I guarantee that. That would be a slap in the face to either player and hurt morale tenfold for said player. I guarantee it won't happen. And how can anyone say garner will get no minutes because there is not enough pt?

Is he not going to improve and get worse? This is a dumb conversation.

[nyg]

It is absolutely idiotic.  You can't be serious.

Agree.  If MU does in fact get Murray to contemplate signing, how can they turn down the highest ranked bigman to the program in what, 30 years?  They take him in a heartbeat and let the pieces fall.  You get a talent like that and Otule and Gardner will be quality backups. 

[77ncaachamps]

If Otule gets injured, then Aaric becomes the man to share minutes with Gardner.

If Gardner DOES become power forward, then MU becomes that old Florida team - with Dametri Hill at PF and Andrew DeClerq at the C - that goes to the Final Four.

At least, I hope that happens.

[BCHoopster]

The bottom line is lets see if Buzz can get him to at least visit MU!  Then MU
might have a chance!  Recruiting starts Wednesday, by May 1st or so MU followers
will know something.

[Marquette84]

Not sure that the 2003 Final Four, and new contract TC earned, upgraded the type of player we were able to land.

Why would the 2003 final four and new contract for Crean have any impact whatsoever on the type of player Buzz will be able to land from here on out?

 I hope you are right, and that Buzz can parlay a Sweet 16 run into landing kids in the Top 30..as he's had a pretty good track record of landing kids in the 50-100 area...without any real skins on the wall.

So does this mean you concede the first two points--that Otule would have made us better in 2009 and 2010 and therefore, not a "great thing" he redshirted?

[HoopsMalone]

The best scenario would have been Otule redshirting in 2009 when Burke was here.  He was active and did nothing.  Then, he could have come back in 2010 at the end of the season. Since he did not get the medical waiver or redshirt tin 2009, Buzz made the right choice by not bringing him back.  At ninth man, he would not have made much of a difference. 

His still being here in two years is a good thing.  We have two scholarships left and we don't even know if they will be bigs.  Let's enjoy having a developed big man in the middle these next two years.  Things worked out just fine.  If you are wishing that he would have been the player he was in 2011 his first two years, then yes it would have been good to have him.  But, he was not by any means the competent interior presence his first two years.  He is a perfect example of a project who needed to develop.

[NersEllenson]

It is absolutely idiotic.  You can't be serious.

No - I am serious..and instead of calling it idiotic...please debate against the point I made.  Do you really want Gardner to pretty much sit his entire Junior season - because as we both agree he has a lot of talent.  However, his talent is NOT better than Aaric Murray's.  Murray is practically a 5-star big with good results thus far - 15.2ppg, 7.7 rebs, and 2.3bpg as a sophomore.  You really think Gardner is going to beat him out at the 5 for minutes??  Murray is the kind of player everyone around here has been moaninng and groaning over and over about MU getting. 

Otule would be a senior, Murray a Junior and Gardner a Junior in 2012-2013 season.  IF Gardner can't play/defend the 4..he isn't going to see many minutes (as talented as he is) that year.  Why not redshirt him, and then in 2013-2014 it's just he and Murray (or possibly Murray goes pro), and then in 2014-2015 you have Devante as a 5th year senior ready to dominate the 5..and as it stands right now..in this (the 2011) recruiting class there isn't a high school "big" so it would buy Buzz more time to develop a big that would be ready to compete at a high level in 2015-2016.

I'm still waiting for all how complain how idiotic this is, to defend why they feel that way measured against the above facts.  Given MU's track record at failing to land quality bigs..you want to maximize those you do land.

[GGGG]

Because ners if he can't break into the rotation he can't really be good enough anyway. And if that is the case might as well use the scholie elsewhere.

[avid1010]

I'm not saying Devante would WANT to redshirt - that's obvious - every kid is always going to want to play. But..with Otule and Murray in the mix...it is very unlikely he'd see many minutes at the 5.  Now, if he can develop into a 4 - then no worries on the redshirt...as there will be minutes available at the "4" in 2012-2013.  Murray is practically a 5-star big who has put up some pretty darn good numbers and posseses a skill set MU has not seen in a big man in some time...DG would not beat him out for minutes at the 5 in 2012-2013.

Considering the lack of talented big men at MU in the past...there is NO sense in letting a very talented guy like DG burn a year of eligibility in a season where it is unlikely he'd see a lot of PT (2012-2013).  Plus with DG's body type..it takes longer to re-shape such a body...and thus why it could be personally valuable to him and his long term goals/pro prospects..

You really don't see the need to have three players over 6'8" on one team at the same time?  Buzz can have those three and he'll still need to have a big freshmen and one coming in the following year.

[Hards Alumni]

You really don't see the need to have three players over 6'8" on one team at the same time?  Buzz can have those three and he'll still need to have a big freshmen and one coming in the following year.

This exactly.

[NersEllenson]

Because ners if he can't break into the rotation he can't really be good enough anyway. And if that is the case might as well use the scholie elsewhere.

Have to disagree Sultan...as clearly we've seen Devante is good enough to break into MU's lineup this past season..but there is no one near the caliber of Aaric Murray on the roster.  Murray is a game changing 5..averaged about 32 minutes per game at LaSalle...assume he comes to MU and has to sit out his transfer year...he's only going to get better come the 2012-2013 season which would be his Junior year at MU, but technically senior year at LaSalle...

Clearly I'm in the large minority here...but just think Devante would sit a TON his junior year if Murray came to MU....and I'd rather see DG not waste a year of production capability on the bench for 30 minutes a game...when he is talented enough to be a 30 minute a game guy once in top condition..

[NersEllenson]

You really don't see the need to have three players over 6'8" on one team at the same time?  Buzz can have those three and he'll still need to have a big freshmen and one coming in the following year.

I can see Otule and Murray being plenty of "size" for Buzz..he's not going to play two "5's" simulatenously.  Jamil Wilson is 6'8" and rumor is Juan Anderson is approaching 6'8".  The big "if" in all of this is if Gardner can work himself into shape to where he could play/defend the 4 - if that's the case would LOVE to see him play alongside Murray..and Otule would be the odd man out minutes-wise..

[avid1010]

I can see Otule and Murray being plenty of "size" for Buzz..he's not going to play two "5's" simulatenously.  Jamil Wilson is 6'8" and rumor is Juan Anderson is approaching 6'8".  The big "if" in all of this is if Gardner can work himself into shape to where he could play/defend the 4 - if that's the case would LOVE to see him play alongside Murray..and Otule would be the odd man out minutes-wise..

If Gardner can play the 4, and I think he needs to get his body in that type of shape because he has a nice outside touch, MU needs three bigs.  Buzz has shown he's plenty capable of matching his offense to the players at hand, and no coach is going to complain about having too many big men at one time.  We played plenty of minutes this year without Otule or Gardner on the court, would have been nice to have another option. There are plenty of minutes for three talented big men...about 26 per.

[Marquette84]

Clearly I'm in the large minority here...but just think Devante would sit a TON his junior year if Murray came to MU....and I'd rather see DG not waste a year of production capability on the bench for 30 minutes a game...when he is talented enough to be a 30 minute a game guy once in top condition..

He's only talented enough if we don't have a guy as good as Murray on the roster.

[MerrittsMustache]

Have to disagree Sultan...as clearly we've seen Devante is good enough to break into MU's lineup this past season..but there is no one near the caliber of Aaric Murray on the roster.  Murray is a game changing 5..averaged about 32 minutes per game at LaSalle...assume he comes to MU and has to sit out his transfer year...he's only going to get better come the 2012-2013 season which would be his Junior year at MU, but technically senior year at LaSalle...

Why is he only going to get better? Do all transfers automatically get better by sitting out a year? Did Dameon Mason get better after sitting out a year at LSU? Is Singleton going to challenge Junior to start at the point next year?

I think that's where there's the disconnect. You seem to be assuming that sitting out a year automatically results in a player getting better.

[BCHoopster]

I hope Wilson improved!

[marquette99]

Love davante and murray was playing in a 2-bigman lineup this past year.

I don't know if davante will ever be average on defense though, and would love to see buzz have them both on the court at once particularly since crowder will be gone then. Lose his rebounding and I believe we are going to have to play some 2-big line-up.

[HoopsMalone]

Because ners if he can't break into the rotation he can't really be good enough anyway. And if that is the case might as well use the scholie elsewhere.

Otule could not break the rotation his first 2 years but you mock the people who suggest developing him is smart. 

[reinko]

If Gardner ever plays 30+ minutes in a single game for MU, I will eat my shoe.

[GGGG]

Otule could not break the rotation his first 2 years but you mock the people who suggest developing him is smart. 

Otule couldn't break into the rotation for one year...the year we had Burke playing center.  He was injured last year.

And regardless, Ox is already *in* the rotation.  If he can't keep his spot in the rotation as a junior, he must not be a high major player anyway.

[NersEllenson]

Otule couldn't break into the rotation for one year...the year we had Burke playing center.  He was injured last year.

And regardless, Ox is already *in* the rotation.  If he can't keep his spot in the rotation as a junior, he must not be a high major player anyway.

Sultan - I find your post to be fairly ironic - you acknowledge that due to Burke (competition) being on the roster...Otule couldn't break into the rotation.....yet if Murray comes to MU that Murray's presence shouldn't/won't impact Devante's playing time??.. I don't agree that DG can go from a contributing player as a freshman,  to "not being a high major player" as a junior.  The reality is that if Murray comes to MU, it significantly changes the landscape for Gardner with regard to PT - as he most likely is going to have to compete for minutes at the 5 with an established, 4.5 start talent..

[Lennys Tap]

The only problem with signing Murray would be that Buzz would be basically "recruitng over" Gardner and Otule, who would fight for backup minutes at the 5 unless we can play two of the three at the same time. No knock on Chris or Davante - they're both better than what we've become accustomed to at the 5, but Murray is NBA potential.

I think Ners idea has merit, but I seriously doubt Gardner would be ok with sitting a year after contributing for two - not too many guys would "volunteer" for that.

[MerrittsMustache]

The only problem with signing Murray would be that Buzz would be basically "recruitng over" Gardner and Otule, who would fight for backup minutes at the 5 unless we can play two of the three at the same time. No knock on Chris or Davante - they're both better than what we've become accustomed to at the 5, but Murray is NBA potential.

I think Ners idea has merit, but I seriously doubt Gardner would be ok with sitting a year after contributing for two - not too many guys would "volunteer" for that.

If it came to that, my guess is that Gardner *would* sit out a year...as he transfers to a different school.

There are 80 minutes/game at the 4/5 position. Murray gets 30, Otule and Gardner get 30 combined and that leaves 20 minutes (ie one half of basketball) to "go small" with Wilson or Williams, both of whom can also play the 3.

Why does everyone seem to think that it's impossible to play 2 bigs at once?

FWIW, Murray is a 35.7% 3-point shooter (51/143) so he does have the ability to spread the floor.