Aaric Murray

[downtown85]

The only problem with signing Murray would be that Buzz would be basically "recruitng over" Gardner and Otule, who would fight for backup minutes at the 5 unless we can play two of the three at the same time.

I think this would be a great problems to have.  I was very pleased with the production out of the 5 spot this year.  However, our weaknesses at the 4 and 5 were exposed in the UNC game.  With a center of Murray's quality (plus an Otule and/or Gardner), our weakness is not so glaring.  It is all about Buzz having options for certain situations.  Last year (09-10) we had no answer.  This year is better.  In two years, if we get Murray, it can be even better.  

[GGGG]

Sultan - I find your post to be fairly ironic - you acknowledge that due to Burke (competition) being on the roster...Otule couldn't break into the rotation.....yet if Murray comes to MU that Murray's presence shouldn't/won't impact Devante's playing time??..

Good lord...do I really have to spell the difference out for you?  Otule was a freshman.  Davante would be a junior with two years of experience in the rotation under his belt.  Yet somehow a player that you believe will be "better than Robert Jackson" wouldn't be able to keep his spot in the rotation?

Look...either he plays, or his isn't as good as you think he is.

[Stretchdeltsig]

It's exciting to read about how talented Murray is.  Now if we can only sign him.  Will he sign during the spring signing period?

[GGGG]

He wouldn't sign.  He would simply transfer.  Transfers don't sign NLIs.

[Pakuni]

Sultan - I find your post to be fairly ironic - you acknowledge that due to Burke (competition) being on the roster...Otule couldn't break into the rotation.....yet if Murray comes to MU that Murray's presence shouldn't/won't impact Devante's playing time??.. I don't agree that DG can go from a contributing player as a freshman,  to "not being a high major player" as a junior.  The reality is that if Murray comes to MU, it significantly changes the landscape for Gardner with regard to PT - as he most likely is going to have to compete for minutes at the 5 with an established, 4.5 start talent..

What's a 4.5 star talent, and why does that matter by the time a player is four years out of high school?
Nobody is suggesting that Murray shouldn't/won't impact Gardner's playing time. The question is, would the impact be so great that MU and Gardner are better off with Davante spending the season in street clothes. I think you've failed to make that case.
For starters, there's nothing wrong with having three capable big men on your roster - it seemed to have worked out OK for UConn - and there's no reason all three couldn't get minutes. In fact, there's no reason that some combination of two of the three couldn't be on the court at the same time. Offensively speaking, Murray can be a bit of a floater (20 percent of his shots in college have come from behind the arc), so I could easily see him and Gardner/Otule playing together.
Secondly, you've completely ignored the possibility of injury. And given Otule's history - and the history of Marquette's big men in general - you ignore that at your own peril. Redshirt Gardner and Otule gets hurt again, you're left with one post player who has a history fouling out.

[NersEllenson]

What's a 4.5 star talent, and why does that matter by the time a player is four years out of high school?
Nobody is suggesting that Murray shouldn't/won't impact Gardner's playing time. The question is, would the impact be so great that MU and Gardner are better off with Davante spending the season in street clothes. I think you've failed to make that case.

This all assumes Devante could play/defend the 4 - and I'm not sure he can.  Think of how Buzz plays 3-4 switchables and 1 big...can you see Gardner chasing a "switchable" 4 like a Jamil Wilson around screens, etc.  I don't think we ever saw a lineup this year with BOTH DG and Otule in the lineup together.  Otule is absolutely a 5 only...maybe Murray can go 4..and Devante 5?  But..it would be weird to have far and away your best shot block not defending the 5...

Again, I'm sure DG would resist redshirting as a junior..by all means he'd want to play..but of all candidates, with his body type..an extra year to continue to refine/reshape his body would not hurt his personal long term development, as well as benefit the team/program down the line. 

[Pakuni]

This all assumes Devante could play/defend the 4 - and I'm not sure he can.  Think of how Buzz plays 3-4 switchables and 1 big...can you see Gardner chasing a "switchable" 4 like a Jamil Wilson around screens, etc.  I don't think we ever saw a lineup this year with BOTH DG and Otule in the lineup together.  Otule is absolutely a 5 only...maybe Murray can go 4..and Devante 5?  But..it would be weird to have far and away your best shot block not defending the 5...

No, I don't think it assumes Gardner can play the four. It assumes Murray can, at least in spots. I don't think that's such a crazy proposition for a guy who takes a decent amount of his shots from the perimeter.

Just because Buzz like to use a "switchable" at the four - not that he's had much of a choice in the matter - doesn't mean the other team is going to play along by using a Jamil Wilson-type at their four. Plenty of Big East teams (i.e. Nova, Louisville, UConn, Cincy, USF) have used fours whose skill sets are more of that of a big man than a Jamil Wilson. Having all three big men available, and potentially on the court together, would give MU great flexibility, as well as to create mismatches by going small or big.
And there's nothing weird about having your best shot blocker not defending the five. Half of the Big East's top 10 shot blockers this year weren't pivots/centers.

[Jay Bee]

He wouldn't sign.  He would simply transfer.  Transfers don't sign NLIs.

This is a vicious lie.

Four-to-fours would be precluded (i.e., such as in this case), but certain transfers do sign NLIs.  

[mu03eng]

Having watched Ox in the Pro-Am, he has the athleticism to play the 4.  How well depends on his conditioning.  It seems like Murray could play some 4 as well.  Otule is a 5 for sure.  I could see a case where 2 4/5s and 1 5 makes a whole lot of sense especially if we are playing up tempo.

Offensively it would be great, as an example:  Murray at the 5, Ox at the 4....Murray could take his guy out towards the arc because he has an ability to hit the 3 which opens up space underneath.  Ox can post his guy up if he is more a Wilson type or he could out maneuver a post-up type defender.  Otule would change the scenario some but offensively its still potent

As far as defense, there is always a possibility you go to the 2-3 zone.  Could you imagine Ox(6-8), Murray(6-10), Andersen(6-8, supposedly) across the bottom with Vander and Jamil up top?  Before you jump on me for no point guard, I think both Vander and Jamil can bring the ball up by the time they are juniors.

If this works out you could definitely get minutes for Ox(25min) and Murray(25min).  Otule(15min) might be a bit of a man left out with fewer minutes but his upside just isn't as high as much as I love the guy.

[MUMac]

This is a vicious lie.

Four-to-fours would be precluded (i.e., such as in this case), but certain transfers do sign NLIs.  

Never understand the rationale to call someone a vicious liar.  As it pertains to the subject matter, he is correct.  Was he incorrect with the technicality you cite?  Yes.  Does it make it a vicious lie?  No.

Why so combative?

[GGGG]

I appreciate you coming to my defense MUMac, but I think he was just being intentially hyperbolic.

[brewcity77]

This is a vicious lie.

Four-to-fours would be precluded (i.e., such as in this case), but certain transfers do sign NLIs.  

Unless they're Joe Fulce. He'd sign an NLI even if it was just to follow Buzz to a barbecue joint.

[Jay Bee]

Never understand the rationale to call someone a vicious liar.  As it pertains to the subject matter, he is correct.  Was he incorrect with the technicality you cite?  Yes.  Does it make it a vicious lie?  No.

Why so combative?

Why are you falsely accusing me and perpetuating awful and hurtful lies?  The guy had a sentence that said, "Transfers do not sign NLIs."  That is false and a vicious lie.  Until he goes to confession, this will cause some issues with St. Peter at the gates. 

You accuse me of being combative and infer that I called someone a vicious liar.  That never happened.  I said that his assertion was a vicious lie, which it was. 

Butler sucked last night.  Does that mean I think they suck?  No.  They have sucked in a game, but they do not suck.
ZFB once dating a female.  Does that mean I think he is straight?
If Chicos says something about Buzz that is complimentary and I say, '"that was nice of that lil fellow to say of Buzz!", does that mean I don't understand the truth to be that Chicos hates MU?   

[leever]

I read that Chico's does not hate MU and furthermore he does not love Tan Tommy!

I believe the vast majority of Chico's posts would bear this out.  Or not.

[Dawson Rental]

smartass

+1

[HoopsMalone]

It would be great to get Murray.  I see that WVU is also going after him.  It looks like Huggins got his seventh verbal for the next class and only has 5 seniors.  Not sure how many on his roster are walk-ons or going to the NBA, but things are getting crowded over there in Morgantown. 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/277/class/2011

Huggins might have to Crean a player to get Murray.

[brewcity77]

I said that his assertion was a vicious lie, which it was.

Hmm...really?

Vicious (adj)

1. ferocious and violent: carried out with intense violence and an apparent desire to inflict serious harm, or acting in an aggressive, cruel, and violent way

2. dangerous and aggressive: aggressive and liable to attack or bite

3. malicious: intended to cause somebody mental anguish or to defame somebody

Calling someone out on a falsehood is one thing, saying it's a vicious lie seems a bit strong. But I'm more curious which definition of vicious you were going with here? Was this a violent lie or one with malicious intent?

No, wait...you must have meant that while lying, he also was likely to bite.

[Jay Bee]

Hmm...really?

Calling someone out on a falsehood is one thing, saying it's a vicious lie seems a bit strong. But I'm more curious which definition of vicious you were going with here? Was this a violent lie or one with malicious intent?

No, wait...you must have meant that while lying, he also was likely to bite.

I understand you may work in the public sector and probably did not take a traditional route in your education, but let me assure you, there are far more definitions of the word 'vicious' than the three you offered up from some online dictionary. 

'Vicious' can be used to describe certain things that are unsound and full of defects, such as the Sultan's assertion that transfers do not sign NLIs.

Now, tell me... when you hear some talk about a 'vicious circle', which one of your three definitions do you use?

[brewcity77]

I understand you may work in the public sector and probably did not take a traditional route in your education, but let me assure you, there are far more definitions of the word 'vicious' than the three you offered up from some online dictionary. 

'Vicious' can be used to describe certain things that are unsound and full of defects, such as the Sultan's assertion that transfers do not sign NLIs.

Now, tell me... when you hear some talk about a 'vicious circle', which one of your three definitions do you use?

The biting one, obviously 

Jeez...can no one on this site ever take a joke? Get over yourself, I was just trying to lighten the mood.

[Skatastrophy]

This thread is going really well so far.  Keep up the good work, guys.

[bamamarquettefan]

What's a 4.5 star talent, and why does that matter by the time a player is four years out of high school?

Pakuni - agree with most of your quote, but the 4.5 star talent really is an appropriate description for Murray, albeit shorthand.

As I detailed on the Crackedsidewalks post, Murray just missed being a 5-star, so was a very high 4-star, but more important his stats as a freshman AND as a sophomore are almost precisely halfway between the average performance for a 4-star and 5-star during his freshman and sophomore years.  If the guy had busted by now, I'd say it doesn't matter that he was a border line 4- or 5-star player (4.5), but when two years of stats have been on that course too, I believe it is an apt shorthand for what we'd be getting, if he is even considering us of course!

[NickelDimer]

Anyone who thinks Jay Bee is being anything but a harmless smartass hasn't spent enough time in the gameday chat room

[MUMac]

Anyone who thinks Jay Bee is being anything but a harmless smartass hasn't spent enough time in the gameday chat room

I figured it out after my initial response.  Sad that I could not figure that out earlier, as I pride myself on being a smartass myself!

[Markusquette]

+1

[MarqLaw]

This thread is going really well so far.  Keep up the good work, guys.

I lol'd