[Cracked Sidewalks] Buzz Williams to remain at Marquette as head coach

[warriorfred]

I am still of the 4 year mindset.  It takes 4 years to completely judge a coach.  I'm glad MU kept Buzz, and we'll see what he does is year 4.

[avid1010]

Sorry, you are a little loose with the facts. Recruiting is not improving. This class he is completing is not as highly regarded as prior. he has not improved in BEast standings, this year was the worst of the 3--trending down. game coaching and strategy--jury is out--otherwise how do you explain the losses this year to Wisky, Louisville, twice, St. John's, Cincy, blowout to UNC, etc.
The only that has grown is his salary. Now we need to see better results!!!

This is where you are so ignorant.  You see worse recruiting because of how the classes were ranked, and the majority will actually wait to see how the classes perform.  Heck, I doubt you even understand how the rating system works or what rating system you're referencing.

This was the worst of 3 years in the BEAST, it was also MU's youngest team and it can be argued the BEAST's strongest year.

Then you say he's a bad game coach because he lost to five NCAA teams (Seaton Hall was his worse loss by far). 

I never felt TC was a great game coach, and it was fun to debate what he could do differently; however, when actually being serious about evaluating him....I figured I was only qualified to evaluate based upon wins and losses.

[willie warrior]

Willie, I love your logic.  If it holds true every BCS school should be in the final four right now, as if VCU and Butler can do it, they certainly should.  It's just plain dumb.  If you want to be VCU or Butler, than copy their "business plan."  Personally, I'll take a pass.  You like to talk about expectations, and I expect you have no idea of who/what will allow MU to meet those expecatations.  If you think there's a better coach out there for the $$$, that would come to MU, toss some names out there.  If not, you pay what you have to, to keep your current coach.  I'm curious as to what $500,000 means as far as expectations, and I'm curious as to why you feel the need to point to any other indicator than wins and losses.  It shows flaws in your logic and rationalization. 

Keep accepting mediocrity. Ignore.

[avid1010]

Keep accepting mediocrity. Ignore.

Lame.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is there a list of the top 20 coaches and what they make?

The lists that are generated have to be somewhat looked at with a grain of salt.  I almost posted it in CS, but decided not to.  The reason is that some "official" salaries are a joke in terms of what their true salary is.  Boeheim is a classic example of this.  What a coach's salary is and what their true total compensation from all sources of income are two different things.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why do people care how much he makes?  I certainly don't.  I'm not paying it.  I am just glad that he's staying.  If it took $2 million...then pay him $2 million.  If it took $5 million...then pay him $5 million.

Actually you are to a degree, through ticket prices, etc.  We all pay for it.  Costs are born by the fans.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Expectations will go up.  The salary will not be an issue unless we plateau out or struggle.  One only needs to visit what certain posters said here numerous occasions about the previous guy's salary and not getting "far enough".  Comes with the territory.

[MUMac]

Actually you are to a degree, through ticket prices, etc.  We all pay for it.  Costs are born by the fans.

Not sure how much of the difference is from fans and from boosters.

[GGGG]

Actually you are to a degree, through ticket prices, etc.  We all pay for it.  Costs are born by the fans.

I go to about one game a year.  Fine...an extra $5.  I still don't get worked up over the size of the contract and I can't say that my expectations have changed at all because it is bigger.

[Lennys Tap]

Actually you are to a degree, through ticket prices, etc.  We all pay for it.  Costs are born by the fans.

Is that why MU ticket prices went down when TC left

[Marquette84]

This is where you are so ignorant.  You see worse recruiting because of how the classes were ranked, and the majority will actually wait to see how the classes perform.  Heck, I doubt you even understand how the rating system works or what rating system you're referencing.

This was the worst of 3 years in the BEAST, it was also MU's youngest team and it can be argued the BEAST's strongest year.

I don't know why this issue of use being "young" keeps coming up.  Our primary rotation consisted of 3 seniors (Fulce, Butler & Buycks), 2 juniors (Crowder & DJO), and a 3rd year soph (Otule), a true soph (Cadougan) and one frosh (Blue).  Two others--Williams (a soph) and Gardner (a frosh) played somewhat less.

But what's even more funny about how this keeps coming up is that its not even relevant . . . take a wild guess as to the youngest team in the Big East.

Here's a hint--they're the only team in the league still playing.

[Pakuni]

I don't know why this issue of use being "young" keeps coming up.  Our primary rotation consisted of 3 seniors (Fulce, Butler & Buycks), 2 juniors (Crowder & DJO), and a 3rd year soph (Otule), a true soph (Cadougan) and one frosh (Blue).  Two others--Williams (a soph) and Gardner (a frosh) played somewhat less.

But what's even more funny about how this keeps coming up is that its not even relevant . . . take a wild guess as to the youngest team in the Big East.

Here's a hint--they're the only team in the league still playing.

I think by young they mean inexperienced.

Jae came into the season with no D-1 experience.
Chris came into the season with 85 minutes under his belt and missed significant practice time to injury.
Junior came in with 47 minutes played and missed significant practice time to injury.
DJO and had only one season of D-1 experience.
Even among the seniors, none were four-year kids.

Essentially, of MU's top 10 players, only two had played D-1 ball for two seasons or more. On the other hand, five of them had less than one season experience. That's actually comparable to UConn, whose rotation this year included three players with 2+ years experience, two with a full season and four with less than one season experience.
Maybe not as young in terms of class, but certainly in terms of experience.

By the way, Gardner played more games and minutes than Fulce this year, so I'm, not sure why you'd consider Joe part of the regular rotation but Davante someone who played "somewhat less."

[mileskishnish72]

Storrs has a ghetto?

[tower912]

Buzz uses 'young'.    Substitute 'inexperienced'.   At the start of the season,  4 guys with >100 minutes of D1 experience, one of whom was Fulce.     Next season, DJO, Junior, Blue, Crowder, Otule, JWilson, Chris Singleton, EWill, and DG will all have > 100 minutes D1 experience.

[MUMac]

Buzz uses 'young'.    Substitute 'inexperienced'.   At the start of the season,  4 guys with >100 minutes of D1 experience, one of whom was Fulce.     Next season, DJO, Junior, Blue, Crowder, Otule, JWilson, Chris Singleton, EWill, and DG will all have > 100 minutes D1 experience.

Jamail Jones has 111 minutes.  Last year EWill had 106.

[tower912]

EWill had 106 minutes in 09-10?   Missed that.   

[MUMac]

EWill had 106 minutes in 09-10?   Missed that.   

I was surprised at both his minutes and JJ's.  Would not have thought either was over 100.

[Norm]

I was surprised at both his minutes and JJ's.  Would not have thought either was over 100.

The majority of these minutes were earned before the Big East season began. Jamail Jones did not see action in 18 games this year while Erik Williams never got off the bench in 13 games.

[WarriorHal]

Willie Warrior seems to think we should be recruiting like North Carolina and Kentucky and signing only 4 & 5 star high school All-Americans. In other words, pretend nothing has changed over the last 3 1/2 decades in the college basketball landscape and Al McGuire is still here. That would be nice, but it simply isn't reality. 

[GGGG]

And if you disagree with what willie says, he puts you on ignore.

[Marquette84]

I think by young they mean inexperienced.

Jae came into the season with no D-1 experience.

And 2 years of JUCO experience. Doesn't that count for something?  Or are you going to make the argument that Jae and Jamail had nearly identical experience levels the day they set foot on MU's campus?

Chris came into the season with 85 minutes under his belt and missed significant practice time to injury.

I think you overstate how much time Chris actually missed:
11/14/08:  Injured
12/19/08:  First game appearance.  
Missed about one month of practice in 2008-09

11/24/08:  Reported injury (3 games into the season)
2/9/08:  Reported to have returned to practice with the team
Missed about 2 1/2 months.

So over 24+ months from September 2008 to November 2010, that's about 3 1/2 months total missed.  He participated in all of the pre-season work over the course of 3 seasons (10/15 through first game in 2008, 2009, and 2010), plus had all of the off season camps, summer sessions, weight room work, film sessions, etc. over that time.

Junior came in with 47 minutes played and missed significant practice time to injury.

Junior was cleared to play by 1/18 his freshman year.  That's still 2 months of his freshman season.  Plus the weight training, film sessions, off-season camps and workouts, summer between frosh and soph seasons, etc.

DJO and had only one season of D-1 experience.

And one season of JUCO experience.  

Even among the seniors, none were four-year kids.

All were four year kids--its just that the four years weren't at Marquette.

Its pretty arrogant to think that DJO or Jae or Joe or  Dwight didn't develop during their years in JUCO.

One more question--if Scott Monarch didn't help give Jimmy or Joe experience while he was a JUCO coach at Tyler JC, why did Buzz hire him as his assistant at Marquette?

Essentially, of MU's top 10 players, only two had played D-1 ball for two seasons or more. On the other hand, five of them had less than one season experience. That's actually comparable to UConn, whose rotation this year included three players with 2+ years experience, two with a full season and four with less than one season experience.
Maybe not as young in terms of class, but certainly in terms of experience.

Only if you completely disregard JUCO experience.

By the way, Gardner played more games and minutes than Fulce this year, so I'm, not sure why you'd consider Joe part of the regular rotation but Davante someone who played "somewhat less."

Don't forget that Fulce missed time early this year with injury, so I would expect his overall totals would be down.

In conference play, Fulce appeared in all 18 games and had 168 minutes, Gardner played in 16 games and netted 102 minutes.

My perception is that Fulce played more minutes in clutch games, and Gardner played more minutes when the outcome wasn't in doubt.  Statsheet backs this up with Fulce listed for 6 clutch games and 426 clutch seconds.  Gardner with zero clutch games/seconds.  

[Goose]

Regarding Willie's posts, for the most part I agree with his logic. It seems that many Warrior fans are thin skinned and eager to defend anything and everything about the program. I love the team and school enough to know some things need to change. With change comes different set of expectations. IMO the following are some small issues that makes us look small time:
1. We need a better station to carry games. I love 540 but it is hardly a flagship station. Not enough of the population can get the games.
2. Attendance. We need students in the barn and alumni to show up. Announced attendance is great but people in BC makes a difference. Much easier to impress recruit with big crowds.
3. JS coverage. If MU needs to advertise to get better print space than they have to do it. I did not see mention of new Buzz contract in the paper today. Is that not local news worthy?
4. Getting the word out in general. Buzz and school has to promote better. The BBQ is nice but only geared towards diehards.

If MU does a better overall job of showcasing the entire program it will pay dividends to the school. I think many fans have become complacent due to general lack of local excitement surrounding program. The 50 people seeing team off is perfect example.

I believe that if every fan was more vested in the program we would be wanted better things. Basically we go at it half assed and hope for the best.

[willie warrior]

And if you disagree with what willie says, he puts you on ignore.

Sorry Sultan, once again you are wrong. If I put the people on ignore that disagreed, I would not have too many posts to read. The ones that get my ignore button are the name callers--and believe me, they are out there.

[GGGG]

Goose, the only point I am going to address is the attendance issue.  Our attendance is great.  Last year we were 10th in the country, with eight of the schools in front of us being large, public universities.  (Syracuse was the only private school ahead of us.)  The problem is we are playing in a building that is too large for our crowd.

[willie warrior]

Willie Warrior seems to think we should be recruiting like North Carolina and Kentucky and signing only 4 & 5 star high school All-Americans. In other words, pretend nothing has changed over the last 3 1/2 decades in the college basketball landscape and Al McGuire is still here. That would be nice, but it simply isn't reality. 

So why cannot we do it??????? Al Mcguire, who you brought up, was able to do it, coming from a Hick school like Belmont. Shureshefski is able to do it--I believe his first or second year, he was about 13-18. I am not saying that everybody has to be a McDonald's All American, but if Duke and NC can have 5 to 7 on their roster, we should get one ocassionally. When was the last time we did? Not sure if we ever had one. Last Parade All American was probably Kerry Trotter.
Too many people on this board offer excuses why we cannot--I prefer to challenge that thinking/excuse making with why not? We have excellent facilities, play in an NBA arena, the best/top 2 Conference in the Country, get great YV coverage with satellite, have a conference tourney in a Mecca of college BBall, have a storied History, some history of players making pros, even recently with Wade/Hayward/Diener/Mathews/Novak, etc.