Blue

[Knight Commission]

Most of his missed shots were layups. He needs to look at the basket when he drives and shoots.

[ringout]

oh yeahh Kemba was no stud at the beginning. You just gotta look at the raw talent blue has, the athleticism is there, the speeds there. Just gotta work on the J!

Kemba was higher RSCI (15) and had a very average freshman year 8.7 pts, 27% 3pt shooting.  Kemba has improved his 3pt shot, but everything starts with his drive and slash to the basket.  Vander will be fine.

[jficke13]

I think people need to ease up off Blue for a minute. Would we have liked him to tear it up? Absolutely. He has gone through a big change from MadMemorial bball to Big East bball. He has an off season to get in the gym, work out his physique, work out his shot, get his confidence back.

He's a stud and if he's not a major contributor in all aspects of the game next year I'll be surprised.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Vander Blue is going to be a special kind of player.

I'm sorry...he's not. It's not just being a freshman.

[Goose]

PRN--I have seen a lot of players go through this joint and Blue is special in my opinion. Doc Rivers could not hit a shot his freshman year and really only improved his shot in the pro's. Blue is very skilled on D, similar to Doc and once stronger will be a fun slasher to the hoop. IMO he has very big upside to him.

[MUMac]

I'm sorry...he's not. It's not just being a freshman.

Good to see how quickly you will write someone off.  I suspect that says more about you than Blue, though.

As for Blue, he was a decent offensive player as a Soph and Junior year.  He injured his arm, can't recall when, and that changed his shot.  Unfortunately, he has an incompetent coach, yes he was Coach of the year, but with the talent he has had, he has not accomplished anything.

Under Collins, Blue's mechanics and fundamentals really dipped.  I heard a "name" coach after watching Blue say that MU will need to break him and build him back.  I suspect that is what will happen this offseason.

If you want to write him off, fine.  Go away, though, when he proves you wrong.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

PRN--I have seen a lot of players go through this joint and Blue is special in my opinion. Doc Rivers could not hit a shot his freshman year and really only improved his shot in the pro's. Blue is very skilled on D, similar to Doc and once stronger will be a fun slasher to the hoop. IMO he has very big upside to him.

Doc Rivers was a major disappointment at MU, in my opinion. He was one of the highest recruited hs seniors in the country, decommitted from DePaul and landed at MU. When you consider the hype, the fact that he was only a 2nd round pick was a shocker. He did have a great NBA career. While he was a poor shooter in college (and the NBA for that matter) had court sense and the ability to handle the ball and make passes that led to baskets. Players struggle with shooting, or turnovers, or shot selection or ball handling and can lean on one or the other until the others come around. Blue has none of that. I am sorry. He does not have a single skill that translates to become a "special" major college basketball player. He just doesn't. And, as I said, I'd rather see Jones out there.

MUMac - Your post is a complete joke. "Mechanics and fundamentals" don't change with a high school coaching change. That's one of the most inane excuses I've ever heard in my life. "Vander was a great shooter his junior year, but the new coach changed his shot."

Listen to yourself!!

[MUMac]

Doc Rivers was a major disappointment at MU, in my opinion. He was one of the highest recruited hs seniors in the country, decommitted from DePaul and landed at MU. When you consider the hype, the fact that he was only a 2nd round pick was a shocker. He did have a great NBA career. While he was a poor shooter in college (and the NBA for that matter) had court sense and the ability to handle the ball and make passes that led to baskets. Players struggle with shooting, or turnovers, or shot selection or ball handling and can lean on one or the other until the others come around. Blue has none of that. I am sorry. He does not have a single skill that translates to become a "special" major college basketball player. He just doesn't. And, as I said, I'd rather see Jones out there.

MUMac - Your post is a complete joke. "Mechanics and fundamentals" don't change with a high school coaching change. That's one of the most inane excuses I've ever heard in my life. "Vander was a great shooter his junior year, but the new coach changed his shot."

Listen to yourself!!

Ah, I am typing, not speaking.

Where did I say there was a coaching change?  Where did I say there was a change of "mechanics and fundamentals" due to a coaching change?  (hint, there wasn't a coaching change) Please, oh great one, help me out.  I can't seem to find that.

Read to yourself.

And you call my post a joke?  Mirror, this is PRN looking ...

[LovinCrowder]

The entire VB situation (committing to UW, decommitting, getting razzed and hyped, committing to MU) really pumped up the talk and expectations for him.   Enough rating services (ESPN, Rivals, etc) saw enough talent and potential in him (high school ball, aau, camps) to rank him very highly.    That does not just happen by accident.   We expected immediate impact for those reasons and did not get it.    That does not mean it will not come in the program, by any means.   He has (by all reports) a great attitude and works his tail off.   He plays great defense and can run the court well and also rebound.   He also got tremendous experience playing a lot this year.   He will work and work and work on his game and has 3 years to turn in to the player we all hope for and expect.

Let's stop dismissing his potential and call it what it is.....a top 40 recruit had a disappointing year on offense as a freshman....wow....earth shattering.   Can't wait to see him develop at MU.  The athletic skills are more than evident.    If his entire career pans out to be what we witnessed this year....then we can chat.

+1

[MU1980]

MUMac - Your post is a complete joke. "Mechanics and fundamentals" don't change with a high school coaching change. That's one of the most inane excuses I've ever heard in my life. "Vander was a great shooter his junior year, but the new coach changed his shot."

Listen to yourself!!

You really are embarrassing yourself.

[mviale]

Good to see how quickly you will write someone off.  I suspect that says more about you than Blue, though.

As for Blue, he was a decent offensive player as a Soph and Junior year.  He injured his arm, can't recall when, and that changed his shot.  Unfortunately, he has an incompetent coach, yes he was Coach of the year, but with the talent he has had, he has not accomplished anything.

Under Collins, Blue's mechanics and fundamentals really dipped.  I heard a "name" coach after watching Blue say that MU will need to break him and build him back.  I suspect that is what will happen this offseason.

If you want to write him off, fine.  Go away, though, when he proves you wrong.

I agree. Buzz is not worried about Blue.  Blue will be very good next year and I would expect him to average double his 5 pts.

[MerrittsMustache]

Vander Blue freshman year
19.0 min, 5.1 ppg, 2.8 reb, 1.6 ast, 1.4 TO, 1.16 A/T, .9 stl, .2 blk, 1.8 fouls, .394 FG (69-175), .608 FT (45-74), .160 3s (4-25)

Lazar Hayward freshman year
16.3 min, 6.6 ppg, 3.6 reb, 0.3 ast, 1.0 TO, 0.29 A/T, .6 stl, .1 blk, 2.1 fouls, .428 FG (83-194), .667 FT (48-72), .208 3s (10-48)


Not drastically different and I'd say that Lazar turned out to be a pretty good player.

[GGGG]

As for Blue, he was a decent offensive player as a Soph and Junior year.  He injured his arm, can't recall when, and that changed his shot.  Unfortunately, he has an incompetent coach, yes he was Coach of the year, but with the talent he has had, he has not accomplished anything.

I don't think the guy is a great coach individual skills wise, but he certainly has accomplished something.  The guy has won three state championships at a school that never made the state tournament before he got there.

[NotAnAlum]

Something happened to Vander at the beginning of the Conference Schedule that screwed up his confidence.  He was very good during the non-con.  And yes some of those were bunny competition but some were good.  Once he lost his confidence he started forcing things and trying TOO hard.  I think some of this may have been trying to be ready to force shots through fouls (MU really strives for and 1s) make the extra pass (passed up a relatively easy shot for a hard pass).  I think he ended up trying too hard to do what the coachs asked instead of just playing ball.
That said since he has the natural talent things could come back in a hurry.  Look at Junior.  In January he was totally lost, couldn't hit a free throw, afraid to drive.  By mid Feb he was coming back and now he looks solid.  A little success breeds confidence, confidence breeds more success.  I think once Vander turns the corner you'll be surprised at how quickly he becomes a solid contributor.

[shiloh26]

Something happened to Vander at the beginning of the Conference Schedule that screwed up his confidence.  He was very good during the non-con.  And yes some of those were bunny competition but some were good.  Once he lost his confidence he started forcing things and trying TOO hard.  I think some of this may have been trying to be ready to force shots through fouls (MU really strives for and 1s) make the extra pass (passed up a relatively easy shot for a hard pass).  I think he ended up trying too hard to do what the coachs asked instead of just playing ball.
That said since he has the natural talent things could come back in a hurry.  Look at Junior.  In January he was totally lost, couldn't hit a free throw, afraid to drive.  By mid Feb he was coming back and now he looks solid.  A little success breeds confidence, confidence breeds more success.  I think once Vander turns the corner you'll be surprised at how quickly he becomes a solid contributor.

Exactly what I was thinking.  Junior looked tentative, I would argue, all the way up till the West Virginia BEast tourney game.  He hit some tough layups, exhibited touch around the rim I don't think any of us knew that he had, and turned a little corner in that game.  Since then, he's had a few nice drives and finishes every game, which has really opened up his offense.  I think Vander just needs a similar game to build up his confidence.  He CLEARLY has all of the physical tools to be a really special player. 

[CTWarrior]

His shot needs a lot of work, but he has a great handle, and good instincts. 

?
A great handle?  Good instincts?  The guy was a turnover machine!  Face it, if he was rated number 250 out of HS, there isn't a fan among us who wouldn't be wondering what Buzz's weird fascination with playing this guy is.

Of course I didn't see Vander is HS, and I hold out hope that there is a great player in there somewhere, but nothing he has done on the court in an MU uniform gives me reason to think that.  I'm smart enough to know I could be way off here.

As an aside, I saw Kemba a lot as a freshman, and there was no doubt that he was going to be a very good player.  His numbers were held down because he was playing behind some other very good players and the team had a lot of options, but it was obvious he had game.

[AZWarrior]

If
+1  When the jumper comes around, just like it did for Wade, Wes, and Jerel, Vander will be lights out.  He can already get to the hoop, set up teammates, and play D very well for a freshman in the BE.

The combo of Vander-Jamail-Ox will be VERY, VERY good in a few years. 

I agree.  I believe that the lack of quality HS competition that Blue played against hindered his development as a player.  In HS, he could get to the hoop at will, eliminating the need for him to develop an effective (and technically sound) outside shot.  Once he "re-engineers" his outside shot, he will be an extremely effective ball player.

I'm very much looking forward to watching him the next few years.

[mu03eng]

?
A great handle?  Good instincts?  The guy was a turnover machine!  Face it, if he was rated number 250 out of HS, there isn't a fan among us who wouldn't be wondering what Buzz's weird fascination with playing this guy is.

Of course I didn't see Vander is HS, and I hold out hope that there is a great player in there somewhere, but nothing he has done on the court in an MU uniform gives me reason to think that.  I'm smart enough to know I could be way off here.

As an aside, I saw Kemba a lot as a freshman, and there was no doubt that he was going to be a very good player.  His numbers were held down because he was playing behind some other very good players and the team had a lot of options, but it was obvious he had game.

He does have a great handle and good instincts, he showed flashes of it all season.  The difference between high school and college is amazing and I'm willing to wager anything that what we saw this season was him pressing too hard and thinking too much.  That gives you a tendency to rush and not play smooth.  I'm sure with all the expectations plus getting crap from the Becky people at home, etc. the game just got too fast for him.  A year under his belt, I would fully expect him to come storming out of the gate next season and will be a starter by the end of the season next year.

[MUMac]

I don't think the guy is a great coach individual skills wise, but he certainly has accomplished something.  The guy has won three state championships at a school that never made the state tournament before he got there.

I agree.  But look at the talent that has been through that program as well.  Just think if Diener had been coaching in that program ...

[GGGG]

MUMac...he's had his team to state every year for the past eight years or so.  He's won the title three times and finished runner up twice.  I'm not exactly sure what else you think he should have done.

[MUMac]

MUMac...he's had his team to state every year for the past eight years or so.  He's won the title three times and finished runner up twice.  I'm not exactly sure what else you think he should have done.

Living in Madison, I have watched and followed Memorial.  With the talent he has had there, he has gotten the minimum out of it.  If you do not agree, you would be in a minority in the Madison area.  The rosters he has been blessed with have several D1 players on, each year.  Wisconsin does not put out that many in a given year.  Go down the list.

If you are impressed with his accomplishments, so be it.  He is not thought of as a technical coach.  Many coaches in the area do not think highly of his abilities.  He has been blessed with having the Matthew's, Nankavil's, Maymon's, Blue's, Nelson's, Lomomba's, ... Show me another program in the state that can put out that kind of talent.  Then show me the number of titles they have won.

As I said, if Diener were coaching this program, they would likely be a dynasty.

Ask TedBaxter, who has followed the program more closely than anyone on this board, for his thoughts. 

[Hards Alumni]

Living in Madison, I have watched and followed Memorial.  With the talent he has had there, he has gotten the minimum out of it.  If you do not agree, you would be in a minority in the Madison area.  The rosters he has been blessed with have several D1 players on, each year.  Wisconsin does not put out that many in a given year.  Go down the list.

If you are impressed with his accomplishments, so be it.  He is not thought of as a technical coach.  Many coaches in the area do not think highly of his abilities.  He has been blessed with having the Matthew's, Nankavil's, Maymon's, Blue's, Nelson's, Lomomba's, ... Show me another program in the state that can put out that kind of talent.  Then show me the number of titles they have won.

As I said, if Diener were coaching this program, they would likely be a dynasty.

Ask TedBaxter, who has followed the program more closely than anyone on this board, for his thoughts. 

They are a dynasty.

Whats wrong with you.

[MUMac]

They are a dynasty.

Whats wrong with you.

Ah, the acerbic hards comes on board.  Nothing is wrong with me.  Thanks for asking.     Do you always attack people that you don't agree with?

As I said, Collins has done less with the talent he has had.  Nothing more than that.  He is not a technically sound coach.  Diener would have won several more championships with that talent.  Memorial has had more D1 players than any other school over the past 8 years.  Many high major D1 as well.

Just look at 2010 and how he was outcoached in that championship game. 

I don't think highly of Collins as a coach.  Apparently you do.  That is fine.  I don't think there is anything wrong with you because of your views.

[Goose]

Merritt---Nicely done. I'll bet VB has better career numbers than Lazar when career at MU is done.

[GGGG]

If you are impressed with his accomplishments, so be it.  He is not thought of as a technical coach.  Many coaches in the area do not think highly of his abilities.  He has been blessed with having the Matthew's, Nankavil's, Maymon's, Blue's, Nelson's, Lomomba's, ... Show me another program in the state that can put out that kind of talent.  Then show me the number of titles they have won.

I have already acknowledged that he is not a great technical coach.  But, the only other Division 1 coach in the state of Wisconsin that has exceeded what Collins has done is Diener at Vincent (who also had a bunch of D1 talent move through his program by the way).  And my guess is that there is a bit of jelousy with the other coaches in the area.