The Time Has Come...

[muwarrior87]

State, i'm glad you are spending your hard earned money to better the education that us current students receive, but Crean has helped the prestige and he's the reason that applications continues to increase as much as they have since our final 4 year.

[maxpower773]

State, I wish what you said were true to some people. I know that when I leave...and after paying off my education I will give to Marquette no matter how the team performs. But you can't deny that the team and how well it is doing and what conference it is in doesn't effect anything. All the proof needed is after the final four, look at the amount of applicants, which again is way up this year. Those people give money not only for their own education, but once again like I will back to the school no matter what. But their coming to Marquette in the first place is influenced by the team. This obviously brings up the point of winning, which of course we want to see, but we have to be patient. We aren't Duke or other teams that have had good teams for the past 15 years. We are though trying to create that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

we could easily get another coach that can recruit and teach for a lot less

You make it sound like it's coming out of your wallet.  Sad

[ChicosBailBonds]

Thatman...can you possibly be more negative as a person?

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;u=310;sa=showPosts

[ChicosBailBonds]

to ask if Marquette is getting their money's worth?

Ask it all you want, I believe the Jesuits have asked that and will continue to each year.

Next year is the year that will be important in my view.  Next year is a Sweet 16 or better type of year.  2 key pieces coming in to fill voids, no major losses, tons of experience back.

[TJ2K1]

If I had the time and money I would answer this question to the best of my ability. But there are at least five people more qualifed then tom crean . . . there has to be given the results I have seen.  If you do not believe that then I have some nice bridges I would like to sell you.  

That answer is an unadulterated cop-out; if you're so hellbent on proving that there are multiple coaches better than Crean, why can't you name them? 

From what I've read out of you this evening, you're contending that there are several (and I'll leave it at five, although from your tone, I'd contend you think there are even more) coaches whose services Marquette could obtain at a salary equal to or lesser than Crean's.  It's not out of bounds to insist that you name them - why can't you?  "I don't have the time," is a crock answer - if you're going to gripe the way you have then for the love of God have some concete facts to back it up.

[muwarrior87]

here here.

[ChicosBailBonds]

To answer your question State, the Al was blueprinted long long ago.  No way they had the land or the ability to build an 18000 seat arena.  It wasn't even supposed to be as big as it finally came out.

[thatman32]

here are a few right now:

Donnie Jones
http://www.gatorzone.com/billydonovan/?sub=staff&page=jones_full


Dana Altman
http://www.gocreighton.com/items_of_interest/bios.asp?BiosID=68

I would also look in the DII and DIII ranks also

[muwarrior87]

i'd rather have crean

[Mayor McCheese]

if we are looking at DII and DIII (although I think Crean should stay)... have to look at local guys

Winona St coach (he did beat Minnesota this year, and they dont lose)

UW-Stevens Point coach (number 1 for DIII, but then we would be copying what Wisconsin did, and we don't want to do that    )

my choice... Tom Crean from Marquette, he seems to do a good job 

[maxpower773]

Good start....first of all, explain why they are good choices, things that set them apart. Also Altman is too expensive according to some people for what he would do. He's only paid about 300k less than Crean, or so I thought, if I had the link I'd provide you with it...maybe tomorrow. Also, if you are going to d2 or d3, what makes you think they can handle the pressure from fans such as yourself at a program in the big east that should be in the sweet sixteen every year? Finally, do you think they can recruit on the same level or better against these bigger more prestigious schools?

[77fan88warrior]

PRN  you are one of the biggest BO's I have ever witnessed. Enjoy your perpetual day in flagellation until next November. YOU ARE KING!

[TJ2K1]

here are a few right now:

Donnie Jones
http://www.gatorzone.com/billydonovan/?sub=staff&page=jones_full


Dana Altman
http://www.gocreighton.com/items_of_interest/bios.asp?BiosID=68

I would also look in the DII and DIII ranks also

Well...2 down, only 3 more - or so - to go.  It's one thing to throw names out, but another to explain and quantify why either would (a) make Crean expendable (b) want to leave their currrent situation, and (c) expect a level of compensation considerably less than Crean, presumably knowing what Crean's salary is.

Let's start with Donnie Jones - I imagine first thing you see is Florida pedigree - assistant to Billy Donovan, recruitment of guys like Noah, Horford, Brewer, Green, Humphrey, etc., etc.  OK - fine - but then you have to ask yourself how much of that was Jones and how much of that was Donovan, the name across the front of the jersey, past success (UF was in a Final Four in 2000).  And if you're going to give Jones the lion's share of the credit, then what about Anthony Grant - yes, the same Anthony Grant who just coached Virginia Commonwealth to an upset victory over Duke today.  Wouldn't some of that credit have to go to him as well?  The next question I'd have - why hasn't Jones received other offers - he's been an assistant to Donovan for 13 years - wouldn't you think he'd have been offered a head gig somewhere in 13 years?  And what do you know of his coaching strategy?  He'd be hard-pressed to find the same kind of athletes that are at Florida just about anywhere in America - could he run the same kind of offense they run at Florida?  What is his area of emphasis?  Does he have a proven track-record of developing bigs?  Has he worked extensively with Noah?  With Chris Richard?  How about Florida's freshman big man, Marcus Speights?  Tell me this.

On to Altman - now, I won't deny he's had sucess in the Missouri Valley; I was particularly impressed with their performance in the conference tourney championship game.  But, let's not get ahead of ourselves - this is the Missouri Valley, not the Big East.  They were swept by Southern Illinois in the regular season, lost games to Wichita State and Indiana State, and, before their run in the MVC tournament, were most certainly on the bubble.  He's had the benefit of two great seniors, Funk and Tolliver - can you put all of that on Altman himself, or do you credit two veteran players with a little mojo of their own?  And what becomes of them once these two studs are gone?  Do you know what he has coming in next year?  Could he recruit to the Big East?  How does his game strategy translate to our players?  To our conference?


You're dealing in a whole lot of "what-ifs" and hypotheticals.  You've brought up one guy who has ridden the coattails of another guy for 13 years, and another who has been in a mid-major conference and while successful there, there's no indication of how that would translate to a major conference. 

I'm not an apologist for Crean.  I'm not happy with tonight.  Tonight sucked - it sucked to get beat up and pretty much knocked out of the game 10 minutes in.  I, just as you, want to win every game.  I want to go 35-0 every year and win the national championship.  I'm tired of one and done and always having to harken back to '03.  But I'm also an alum who sat through 3 years of Mike Deane, and remember half-empty Bradley Centers, teams with a bunch of stiffs, 14-15 seasons hoping the NIT would come calling, and the knowledge that an embarrassment to the University could always be right around the corner.  What we have now is a guy who has won two-thirds of his games, sent three players to the NBA, and several more to Europe and the D-League, made the NCAA tournament an expectation not a hopeful quest, restored resepctability and class to the program, and numerous other intangibles - and yes, you have to count intangibles - 4,500+ student tickets, 19,000+ crowds for games, national exposure.  The man's track record is pretty good - and we have the proof of that.  No, it's not perfect, and when it comes to the post-season, even sub-par.  But, if the best you can come up with is a career assistant, a mid-major coach, and dredging the D-III pool, thanks, I'll stick with our guy.

[MarquetteFan94]

If anything thing...if Crean 'the money donating machine' was so good, why did MU end up with a 6K practice facility and not a 18000K arena?  

Well...this one is pretty simple....because MU doesn't need their own 18,000 seat arena.  And exactly where on MU's campus is there space for an 18k seat arena?!  Maybe they should level the Union??  The library seems to take up a lot of space, perhaps that can go too?  The BC is 5 blocks from campus!

[LastWarrior]

PLEASE dont even think of calling for crean's head... as an msu student and a fan of a team who never faces you(other than tonite) plese dont think of doing away with crean. the guy has had nothing but bad luck w/ the tournament. Look at where your program was before he came and look at where it is now. We may have won tonite, but that was w/o one of your best scorers and the big east defender of the year. Granted we didn't play our usualy game either, so its impossible to predict the outcome had mcNeal been healthy, but finishing top 20 in the nation is nothing to look past. We didn't even finish ranked this year and had our goals set on just making this tournament. You have made is the past 4 of 6 seasons or so w/ a final 4 and brand new facilities. Give it time, you guys return most of you players next season and are destined for a good regular season and a good run in the tourney...guaranteed. Good luck guys

Thanks for the props and good luck to you guys vs. NC.  Izzo is one of my favorite coaches in college (other than Crean) and Stephens is a great assistant.

[Ready2Fly]

Anyone calling for Crean's head is IN-F*CKING-SANE.

COMPLETELY insane.

I was a freshman during the final four run, and that was the best three weeks of my life.

My uncles have been obsessed with Marquette basketball and have pounded it into my head since I was five.  I know what it was like before Crean.  When has this program gotten consistent national exposure in the last 25 years - other than under Crean? 

We just lost a game without our best player after getting screwed over in the seeding process.  Relax.  You're starting to sound like spoiled Duke, ND, and Kentucky fans.  It's sickening.

[jage]

i look at it this way...crean goes as his assistants go. college basketball is as much about assistant coaches as anything else. they help the head coach deal with the more bureaucratic duties of catering to alumni and the student body for support. the assistant coaches are assigned a specific area of the game and are expected to do it well.

with recruiting, i'm sure that's more of collective effort, but the problem is crean doesn't have a coaching style. i don't think crean has decided was his coaching style is and that has led to much confusion as how to coach. the  ncaas great coaches recruit for there system not necessarily because they are five star recruits. (unless of course you're roy williams, but even he gets them to play together). just think of these following coaches and their subsequent styles...

bo ryan...swing offense, hard nose defense
tom izzo...offensive consistency (no matter who is on the floor), lock down defense
roy williams...run run run, solid defense
john belein...princeton style offense, makes mediocre players look great in his system

the list goes on...tom crean's style is to fill his roster with talent (or potential talent) and coach them on the fly...does he really have a plan? every team that he has fielded over the past three or four seasons has been coached differently (or at least played differing styles).

[21rooster]

This is the type of thread that will get us ridiculed on ESPN (like Kentucky, but much worse).  When you have a coach with potential and current ability of Tom Crean, you don't let him go. 

[BuzzSucksSucks]

Any talk of Coach Crean's ouster is insane.  Just look at this season:  We started the conference schedule with 2 losses.  Following a couple of disappointing non-conference defeats, Wisconsin and ND State, those two losses--to Providence and Syracuse--had us reeling.  I mean, we were at that point rethinking our season, seriously looking at a sub-500 conference run.  I think we've taken what happened next for granted.  I don't know what he did, but I believe it was some world class coaching, motivating, focusing, circling the wagons that brought us out of that hole. 

I would hope there would come a point where we could let go of the probation period and just embrace our coach.  We need to understand that the pendulum swings with all programs (see: UConn, Syracuse), and instead of overreacting after another early exit in March, we should count our blessings and realize that a lean year in the Crean era would be counted as a rich one at any other time in the past 30 years.

Since he's been here, we've been competitive.  Remember when Bob Huggins owned Conference USA?  That was before Coach Crean got here.  And the move to the Big East has not been a reach for this program.

We'll make our deep tourney runs, and when they come let's enjoy them.  I think there's a satisfaction in winning, an extra measure of satisfaction, when you've been faithful through the lean years too.  I mean to say that our coach has put this program on his back, and taken it a long way, and he's earned our support.  Sure, we can discuss recruiting, x's and o's, all that, but let's not talk about starting over.

[NateDoggMarq]

I LOVE COACH CREAN!!! HE IS A GODSEND TO THIS UNIVERSITY AND MY DEGREE WILL GET ME MORE MONEY WHEN I GRADUATE IN A FEW YEARS BECAUSE OF THE PRESTIGE HE HAS GIVEN THIS UNIVERSITY!! just throwing that out there. 

Trust me when you graduate, it is not like "O hey I went to Marquette, how bout you offer me a 100k job"   

This will not happen unless you are super lucky.
I was alot like you when I was a student, I figured they just give out jobs to college graduates, just because you are a graduate.  I quickly learned that this was not the case, and I struggled trying to find a job that I was qualified for, in fact I was having such bad luck that I took a Job baking bread at  Pick N Save for 8.50 an hour and believe me working from 4 Am to 12 Noon is a really wake up call to the real world.  Than to add insult to injury, I had an even harder time finding a job because Employeers wanted to know why a college graduate with great grades was working at  A Pick N Save, Luckily I was hired by True Green Chem lawn doing a blue collar job that had the white collare title of "Route Manager"  this got me back out on to my feet, but I was so Jaded with the world that I now work in a tiny company that produces television infomercials.
It took me 3 years to realize that nobody gives you a job, you got to hustle like your a time share salesman and hopefully you strike a cord with someone.

CREAN WILL NOT GET U A JOB!!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

here are a few right now:

Donnie Jones
http://www.gatorzone.com/billydonovan/?sub=staff&page=jones_full


Dana Altman
http://www.gocreighton.com/items_of_interest/bios.asp?BiosID=68

I would also look in the DII and DIII ranks also

Dana Altman just went one and done....why is it ok for him?


In fact, Dana has now gone "one and done" 5 times and has never reached the Sweet 16.  His NCAA record is 2-7.  Explain to me again why this would be an upgrade?

[tower912]

TC has done more for this program than anyone not named Al McGuire.   This was an infuriating way to go out.   But let us step into the way back machine.   20+ years ago, a few influential alumni gave Majerus so much grief about not being Al that he "resigned" to take an assistant's job with the Bucks.   The word on campus when we came back to school that fall was that he was forced out.   The rap on him was that he couldn't coach, couldn't recruit....blah, blah, blah.   So we got the best coach available, Dukiet.   TC haters be careful what you wish for.   It is unlikely that we will get a coach who works as hard for the university as TC does, or who views MU as something other than a stepping stone, a la K O'N.   So if you want us to become like DePaul, or Rutgers, or Seton Hall, keep wishing him gone.   When the unintended consequences come around and bite you in the ass, and we go 8-20 and 2-14 in the league under our 3rd coach on 5 years, remember how much you hated TC, and how glad you are he is gone.   Nutjobs.

[CTWarrior]

A couple of things from our Mexico City office while unable to fly home because of the snow.

1.  Kevin O'Neill was poised to have a long successful run at MU.  He consistently was bringing in top notch classes and it was paying off.  There's a reason why Deane's record is as solid as it is.  He inherited a very solid team.  I would say what O'Neill did at MU was even more impressive than what Crean has done because of where he was starting from.  So Crean isn't the only guy who could be successful here.  O'Neill's teams, good as they were, were just abysmal as far as entertainment value.  Horrible, ugly games.

2.  I am to the point that I expect us to lose in post season tournaments.  I expected us to lose to Saint John's until we found out their big guy was out, I fully expected to lose to Pitt, and I fully expected we would lose to MSU yesterday.  I am a huge fan and I don't want to be that way and I went to the BE tournament and everything, but that's just the feeling I get.

3.  Despite the above, Crean absolutely should stay.  I think he's got Gene Keady syndrome.  His teams generally play at their highest level all year and don't have another gear come tournament time.  Couple that with our puzzling crappy seeding depriving us from more favorite early tournament matchups, and you get the bad results we've seen.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Tower, I've been saying this the entire year....careful what you wish for MU fans.

If you look at 99.5% of the head coaches of NCAA DI schools over the years, they almost all have multiple first year exits.   That includes coach K, coach Knight, coach Dean Smith, Donovan, etc, etc, etc.  And idiot fans on their boards react the same way.

People let their emotions overtake any sense of reason and reality.....they are on ledge ready to jump half the time.

I divide the season up each year into three silos.  Non-conference.  Conference. Post Season.

I give us a B+ for non-conference.  B for conference.  C for post-season (without McNeal, close to giving it an incomplete.)

Overall, a B for the season which is about what I expected.

Next year, assuming everyone comes back and there are no critical injuries, I would be extremely disappointed with a one and done next year.  IF everyone comes back